Debate the Coordinators

#51
#51
Vol8188 said:
You’ve yet to show a downgrade. We scored more points and had better competition. We scored more against Ohio State than any team other than Oregon.

Your entire claim is based on the results of 2 or 3 possessions. That’s absurdity. Even you realize it, which is why you’re not even trying to defend it. Rather you’re just blindly claiming it was a “downgrade”.
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The red zone efficiency was proof of a downgrade. You reject it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Let's just simplify this. Compare Golesh's two years and Hazle? Has there been a significant downgrade? I would argue yes. The one constant in those four years was Heupel calling plays. Leads me to believe the OC's play some type of significant role and one was good at whatever role that was.
Edit: if you want we can go back to when Lebby was OC and compare the three. The only one that Heupel has had issues with is Hazle. I like him as a QB coach but my only point is we have two years of evidence that it does need to be evaluated.
 
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#52
#52
I used to be a Banks supporter. Looking up at the scoreboard in our last game and seeing us down 21-0 with 6 minutes to go in the first quarter was enough for me to see him go if he wants to, fine with me. Hell a 12 year old could DC a defense that well.
 
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#53
#53
Vawlk Tuah said:
Our DC has systematically improved year over year and our OC has systematically gotten worse year over year. Banks is the last one I want to leave outside of Heupel and Rodney. What are the thoughts on the board? I want Hazle demoted more than losing Banks.
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Banks is definitely benefiting from having garner on his defensive staff. It really a good adjuster in games. He’s ok not a top defensive mind by any means. Hazle needs to stick with just coaching QBs I agree 💯 there. But loosing banks isn’t the end of world there are a lot do defense minds that are better we could find.
 
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#54
#54
Remy said:
I used to be a Banks supporter. Looking up at the scoreboard in our last game and seeing us down 21-0 with 6 minutes to go in the first quarter was enough for me to see him go if he wants to, fine with me. Hell a 12 year old could DC a defense that well.
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That was rough, looked more a Jimmy and Joe problem in that game to me. Our DB's were not as fast as their wr's. The Oregon game furthered my conviction that we were flat out athleted if you will.
 
#55
#55
Majors said:
You do understand that Hazle is OC in name only. He’s eyes in the sky for Heupel who is calling plays and communicating with the Nico.
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Either way, I would personally like to see a different approach. If he's so hung up on hiring OU coaches lets get Kevin Wilson. He can call plays and scare the **** out of the OL at the same time. Amazing multi tasker.
 
#56
#56
hardesty02 said:
Banks is definitely benefiting from having garner on his defensive staff. It really a good adjuster in games. He’s ok not a top defensive mind by any means. Hazle needs to stick with just coaching QBs I agree 💯 there. But loosing banks isn’t the end of world there are a lot do defense minds that are better we could find.
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Agree with this. I think he's an above avg DC. If we had the offense we should have we beat Arkansas and we don't draw Ohio State most likely. Also playing in Neyland. We went from a team that teams had to shoot out to two years of relying on defense and hoping the offense might score and hang on to a lead or get into the game.
 
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#58
#58
Remy said:
I used to be a Banks supporter. Looking up at the scoreboard in our last game and seeing us down 21-0 with 6 minutes to go in the first quarter was enough for me to see him go if he wants to, fine with me. Hell a 12 year old could DC a defense that well.
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That was a case of my 4 runner racing against a Hendrick car. His failure to adjust to UGA using the middle and their TEs was galling. It brought back memories of everyone in the stadium knowing that Matt Corral was keeping it except for Banks.
 
#59
#59
Vol8188 said:
2023 vs SEC
Florida 16
SC 41
A&M 20
Bama 20
Kentucky 33
Missouri 7
Georgia 10
Vandy 48

24.4 points per game

If you add Virginia and Iowa (49+35) you bump that up to 27.9.

2024 vs SEC
Oklahoma 25
Arkansas 14
Florida 23
Bama 24
Kentucky 28
Mississippi State 33
Georgia 17
Vandy 36

25 points per game

If you want to do power 5 as you said you add NCST and Ohio State (51+17) and the average goes up to 26.8

The obvious problem with your argument is that NCST and Ohio St are far better opponents than Iowa and Virginia.

So what you’re really saying is “we didn’t score a lot against Ohio State”….okay?

Outside of Oregon no one scored more against Ohio State than we did.
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The comparison should be 2021 & 2022 against 2023 & 2024. The offensive scheme and play calling have been very questionable the past two seasons. The first two seasons we played with urgency and kept fighting to the very last second. I don’t think our 2021 team was more talented that this years team, yet they always played with urgency. They were exciting even as a 7-6 team. Something happened with the play calling starting last year and it’s on CJH since he is allegedly an offensive minded coach. I don’t buy all of the excuses about the limited and inexperienced personnel. Something is broken and they need the influence of someone more creative on the offensive side. I have seen plenty of teams with less talent than UT with creative and successful play calls that match strengths and weaknesses.
 
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#60
#60
Bloodrunsorange27 said:
The offensive play calling and game planning were terrible this year. Change at OC is needed and Heupel needs to figure out how we went from an explosive, creative high scoring offense to a very predictable and easy to shut down sh*t show.
Teams knew what we were going to run. Changes are needed
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I'm pretty sure he's already figured it out and that's why we leaned harder on the run. Probably figured it out against OU. New QB, not great pass blockers, and mid/ injured receivers generally limit explosives. Yet 10 wins anyway.

I think what halzle sees from the box and calls down to CJH isn't clicking to Nico on the field during the play. Nico seems to do much better just snapping the ball and finding a target vs trying to determine which route the receiver is going to run based on the position of the defender and their hips. He holds the ball to see if and when they are going to break and when they don't (because whatever reason) he's gotta take off with it.
 
#63
#63
Majors said:
No, they are paying him to look through binoculars and tell what he sees.
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Also heavily involved in game planning which dictates the play calling. More of an indictment if Golesh called plays in year 2 or three if you include UCF and Hazle is just a field observer at the same point in his career. Tells me Heupel is overpaying.
 
#65
#65
Vawlk Tuah said:
The red zone efficiency was proof of a downgrade. You reject it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Let's just simplify this. Compare Golesh's two years and Hazle? Has there been a significant downgrade? I would argue yes. The one constant in those four years was Heupel calling plays. Leads me to believe the OC's play some type of significant role and one was good at whatever role that was.
Edit: if you want we can go back to when Lebby was OC and compare the three. The only one that Heupel has had issues with is Hazle. I like him as a QB coach but my only point is we have two years of evidence that it does need to be evaluated.
Click to expand...

A difference in 2 possessions isn’t “proof of a downgrade”.
 
#67
#67
Remy said:
I used to be a Banks supporter. Looking up at the scoreboard in our last game and seeing us down 21-0 with 6 minutes to go in the first quarter was enough for me to see him go if he wants to, fine with me. Hell a 12 year old could DC a defense that well.
Click to expand...

Against the same team that just destroyed number 1 and undefeated Oregon? Your argument is dumb
 
#72
#72
NetworkVol said:
I'm pretty sure he's already figured it out and that's why we leaned harder on the run. Probably figured it out against OU. New QB, not great pass blockers, and mid/ injured receivers generally limit explosives. Yet 10 wins anyway.

I think what halzle sees from the box and calls down to CJH isn't clicking to Nico on the field during the play. Nico seems to do much better just snapping the ball and finding a target vs trying to determine which route the receiver is going to run based on the position of the defender and their hips. He holds the ball to see if and when they are going to break and when they don't (because whatever reason) he's gotta take off with it.
Click to expand...

When your qb is struggling and oline can’t pass protect, quick passing game, misdirection, pre-snap motion, screens, moving pocket are what most teams do. We rarely did any of that. Not only that, we were so predictable that teams knew what we would run based on what they showed on defense.
I would say he didn’t figure anything out
 
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#74
#74
sonofUT62 said:
They were good at QB pressure when it was a case of beating the man in front of them. Problem is...when they couldn't...Banks couldnt scheme any pressure.
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I must have missed all this

Edit: oh I see. You mean when they actually did beat the man in front of them. Rare occasions, but you're correct.
 
#75
#75
I think Hazle is being set up as the fall guy with this offense. I think he has little to no control over the play calling. Heupel is not going to just sit back and say “ok Mr. New OC, this is your baby. Keep calling stupid plays and I will support you no matter what. This is how you will learn so I will be hands off”. If Heupel didn’t like the calls, he would absolutely step in and override them. It is clear that Heupel is endorsing this offensive scheme and, if anything, Hazle is just a yes man who is calling whatever CJH wants. Golesh may have had some influence, but I don’t think Hazle is blindly calling the shots without Heupel’s involvement
 
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