Decorated Army surgeon refuses to obey all military orders

[BigPapaVol]

He has in effect isolated himself and may possibly lose future retirement and other benefits.

He has exausted all channels up the chain of command and therefore has not undermined himself.


You make some of the most idiotic statements.

about this, you appear to have no idea.

Care to list your own medals??

The two highest listed there, MSM and Bronze Star, I have.

To say a Bronze Star 'might be valorous' is ludicrous, they don't pass those out every day, especially to surgeons.

Again, I have one and damn near every officer in my unit got one.

You saying that a Lt Col is still serving out his medical training commitment pretty well removes what little credibility you still have.

Do you know anything about flight surgeons? Ever even had a flight physical? Their commitments are extensive and they make LTC at the 16 year point. Hell, I'm not sure there are any of them under the rank of Major.

To say that a chief flight surgeon might be still serving his medical training commitment is moronic and removes all doubt.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. There aren't a whole lot of flight surgeons and they don't tend to be overly senior. This could honestly be an effort to flat leave the service because his pay is so low relative to his civilian peers.

It is also unbecoming of an officer and gentleman as you claim to be or have been, to attempt to bismirch his good name just beacuse you may not agree with or support his stand.

GTFO. The POS is using this as a political statement. That's not the prerogative of a military officer. I don't want any like him serving in any units with which I'm affiliated, period. You can make excuses for him because he agrees with your political views, but he's not an officer beyond reproach.

If the commander in chief is not legally that, then all orders are unlawful, that is his contention.

The CinC has no obligation to produce anything for this shirker. He's a POS. Our Supreme Court swore the man in after him having been properly elected by our electoral college. Dude needs to STFU, finish his service time, and go away.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I have every award other than the Bronze Star,MSM, and the reserve deals.

And i was just an average 4 year buck sergeant. Most awards sound important when dealing with someone who has no clue what they are.
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Exactly. I have a bronze star for a night mission that wasn't as tough as what we flew at NTC. We even flew with slimes up full.

 

[gsvol]

Call it want you want gsvol.......... this is not the battle conservatives should be fighting.

I'm not fighting the battle, the Lt Col is.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that.... I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

------------------------------------


Here is one of the ongoing civil court cases.

Why are these items off limits to researchers?

1 Certified copy of original birth certificate

2 Columbia University transcripts

3 Columbia thesis paper

4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups

5 Harvard University transcripts

6 Illinois State Senate records

7 Illinois State Senate schedule

8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary

9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother

10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)

11 Occidental College Transcripts

12 Parent’s marriage Certificate

13 Record of baptism (Obama has annonced he will not be attending Easter services.)

14 Selective Service registration records

(Did Obama Actually Register for Selective Service?
This supposed revelation of 0's SS records has been debunked.)

15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007

16 Passport records for all passports

17 Scholarly articles

18 SAT and LSAT test scores

19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya

20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists

21 Punahou grade school records

22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.

23 Page 11 of Stanley Ann Dunham's divorce decree.

24 Why isn't Barack Obama still a member of the Illinois bar and where are all of the relevant documents?

25 Why isn't Michelle Obama still a member of the Illinois bar, after only about four years of practice, and where are all of the relevant documents?

ps; Why do you have an avatar posing as a liberal??

 

[gsvol]

The CinC has no obligation to produce anything for this shirker. He's a POS. Our Supreme Court swore the man in after him having been properly elected by our electoral college. Dude needs to STFU, finish his service time, and go away.

Swore him in twice as I remember.

The colonel could resign his commission any day as many did rather than serve under Clinton.

We aren't going to ever agree on this and the man is not POS no matter what you say.

 

[BearCat204]

That's not true. Commissioned officers get DDs.
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I was under the impression that they could only be receive a dismissal

 

[BigPapaVol]

Swore him in twice as I remember.

The colonel could resign his commission any day as many did rather than serve under Clinton.

We aren't going to ever agree on this and the man is not POS no matter what you say.

We aren't going to agree, which is fine. As a fellow officer, I think he's a POS. Take up political crusades as a civilian.
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[gsvol]

I have every award other than the Bronze Star,MSM, and the reserve deals.

And i was just an average 4 year buck sergeant. Most awards sound important when dealing with someone who has no clue what they are.
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Congratulations on your awards.

Regardless of all that he deserves better than being characterized as a twit, clown or POS.

The CinC has no obligation to produce anything for this shirker. He's a POS. Our Supreme Court swore the man in after him having been properly elected by our electoral college. Dude needs to STFU, finish his service time, and go away.

We'll see about that I suppose.

The two highest listed there, MSM and Bronze Star, I have.

Congratulations on your medals, sorry to see you can belittle them so easily.

Some of the things you say aren't adding up, including some flight with 'slimes' up, whatever slimes are, you'll have to enlighten me about slimes.

Criteria for the Bronze Star:

The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

b. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

c. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The required achievement or service while of lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

Again, I have one and damn near every officer in my unit got one.

Things must have changed since I was in, the Bronze star used to mean quite a bit, if you don't think you are deserving why don't you return yours?

Do you know anything about flight surgeons? Ever even had a flight physical? Their commitments are extensive and they make LTC at the 16 year point. Hell, I'm not sure there are any of them under the rank of Major.

Yes

Yes

And regardless of your rank envy concerning flight surgeons, I'm pretty damned sure a flight surgeon isn't required to serve over 16 years to fulfill his training committment.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. There aren't a whole lot of flight surgeons and they don't tend to be overly senior. This could honestly be an effort to flat leave the service because his pay is so low relative to his civilian peers.

Maybe so maybe not.

In all likelyhood he could have just resigned his commission and went into private practice if he so desired, so once again you seem to be missing the point.

GTFO. The POS is using this as a political statement. That's not the prerogative of a military officer. I don't want any like him serving in any units with which I'm affiliated, period. You can make excuses for him because he agrees with your political views, but he's not an officer beyond reproach.

It could be that he is living up to his oath.

You sure do take it personally.

Not sure what GTFO means but the same to you and I also take extreme exception to being characterized as a buffoon sir.

I'm not saying he is beyond reproach, none are, INCLUDING THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF!

 

[JTrainDavis]

The Bronze Star seems to have been devalued as of late, as BPV said above, it appears that O4 + and E8+ end up with one for being involved in any slightly tricky situation in theater.

Just my 2 cents.
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[BigPapaVol]

GS. You're struggling. My award was from a joint op, including AA with the 101st. The Infantry commander put in the awards and recommendation. Our brigade chief recommended a change, but believed it worthy of air medal and not a flying cross. It wasn't worthy of anything IMO, but the planning effort was damn near herculean and the Old Man wanted it recognized.

No biggie.


Medical officers run a different career path than everyone else. The idiot at Hood is plenty proof. This guy's decorations don't match those of a line officer. You won't see many without LOM.


Im not belittling anyone's medals as much as I'm saying we are prolific in award giving in a combat theatre.
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[IPorange]

I'm learning a lot in this thread...

 

[BeecherVol]

Me too.

Interesting stuff

 

[volinbham]

I'm learning a lot in this thread...

Me too.

Interesting stuff

Me three. Thanks for the service guys :salute:

I think the officer that is the subject in this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong though.

 

[gsvol]

Me too.

Interesting stuff

One of the more interesting things to me is why I might be getting the message that I must log in again after I make a post more and more frequently.

Is anyone else having that problem??

I just spent about three hours making a detailed examination of the UCMJ with possible charges and possible punishments for Lt Col Terrence 'Terry' Lakin that go zapped into outer cyberspace because of that and some detailed answers to other questions and comments.

Normally I copy posts before I make them to avoid that but neglected to that time, perhaps because I was deistracted by the hockey game.

GO PREDS!

A quick look is that I doubt he will ever be charged, his isn't the first case and all the others have been swept under the rug on this same issue.

Civilian authorities have gone out of their way to avoid the issue coming up in a military court.

If he is charged than it would probably be under article 92, anyone interested can easily google up all you need to know under the UCMJ federal law, that's rather simple.

I havn't been able to find the exact wording of Lakin's Bronze Star award but am pretty sure he was approved for promotion to full bird colonel this promotion cycle rendering yet another conjecture about his motives to be just another shot in the dark based on a biased opinion.

 

[gsvol]

I have every award other than the Bronze Star,MSM, and the reserve deals.

And i was just an average 4 year buck sergeant. Most awards sound important when dealing with someone who has no clue what they are.
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However much his awards mean or don't mean, he deserves a better characterization than 'twit', 'clown' or 'POS!"

I understand what the awards mean.

I was under the impression that they could only be receive a dismissal

Death penalty is maximum sentence although this case would never consider that, if indeed there is ever a case to consider.

So far all these cases and this is far from the first, have been swept under the rug.

This one will be harder to hide, for one thing the officer in question is the highest profile so far and the foreign press has picked up the story.

The foreign press isn't an overriding issue, it is sort of weird that some things that go on in America are common knowledge in other places but the American people are pretty much ignorant of them because of what LSM chooses to present as news.

Look up Article 92 UCMJ and find penalties, imo that would be what the charge would be.

To me the bottom line is that Lakin could be charged with is honoring his oath to defend the constitution and nothing more.

We aren't going to agree, which is fine. As a fellow officer, I think he's a POS. Take up political crusades as a civilian.
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As a veteran that is exactly what I think of those who denegrate the man for his stand and would seem to seek to deny him any hearing without prejudice.

Watch his press release video on youtube, he seems to be quite a bit more well spoken than you are here today.

The Bronze Star seems to have been devalued as of late, as BPV said above, it appears that O4 + and E8+ end up with one for being involved in any slightly tricky situation in theater.

Just my 2 cents.
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Your 2 cents means something to me.

GS. You're struggling. My award was from a joint op, including AA with the 101st. The Infantry commander put in the awards and recommendation. Our brigade chief recommended a change, but believed it worthy of air medal and not a flying cross. It wasn't worthy of anything IMO, but the planning effort was damn near herculean and the Old Man wanted it recognized.

No biggie.


Medical officers run a different career path than everyone else. The idiot at Hood is plenty proof. This guy's decorations don't match those of a line officer. You won't see many without LOM.


Im not belittling anyone's medals as much as I'm saying we are prolific in award giving in a combat theatre.
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I'm not struggling, you are projecting.

Again, congratulations, I have never tried to criticize you accomplishments.

I understand about different carreer paths and it would be nice to actually read Lakin's citation.

Glad you aren't belittling any medals, it would be nice if you retracted some of your comments besmirching Col Lakin's name and then we could discuss the issues in a mature, intelligent manner.

Ditch the lynch mob attitude in other words.

 

[gsvol]

Me three. Thanks for the service guys :salute:

I think the officer that is the subject in this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong though.

:salute:

How do you think that he is wrong??

 

[BigPapaVol]

I'm not ditching anything. I think this political stunt is absurd. If the POS really wanted an answer, he'd be after. He wouldn't be pulling pathetic crap like issuing press releases and seeking a defense team from a right wing camp to do this.

He brought this to the public sphere himself. He wants this to be a very public ordeal so he can get maximum exposure for his crusade. That isn't the action of a legitimately concerned professional military officer. He lists his awards and the fact that he happens to be the flight surgeon in DC. That crap matters to John Q, but those in the Army damn sure know better.
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[jaybird_1981]

Just my two cents but the bronze star has been devalued a great deal recently. During OIF 1 they were giving them out like candy to pretty much any E7 or 03 and above.

 

[gsvol]

I'm not ditching anything. I think this political stunt is absurd. If the POS really wanted an answer, he'd be after. He wouldn't be pulling pathetic crap like issuing press releases and seeking a defense team from a right wing camp to do this.

He brought this to the public sphere himself. He wants this to be a very public ordeal so he can get maximum exposure for his crusade. That isn't the action of a legitimately concerned professional military officer. He lists his awards and the fact that he happens to be the flight surgeon in DC. That crap matters to John Q, but those in the Army damn sure know better.
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I keep forgetting to say, glad to see you and ACLG on the same page on something, you two never seem to play well together.

Again he exausted inquiry options through the chain of command and never received a satisfactory answer.

Not everyone in the army agrees with you, several have already taken the action Col Lakin has.

If the rumors are true that he had already been approved for promotion to full colonel and as you surmise he has about 16 years in, then that means if he stayed for 30 yrs that he could very well make the rank of Lt Gen by the time he retired.

That is a lot to give up to stand for a principle.

Each time you call him a POS I lose a bit more respect for you. Call his action quixotic perhaps but character assassination is unbecoming of you all the rest who do the same.

I believe what he has done took much courage and willingness to sacrifice for a principle.

Evidently you don't give a crap about that principle.

 

[gsvol]

Just my two cents but the bronze star has been devalued a great deal recently. During OIF 1 they were giving them out like candy to pretty much any E7 or 03 and above.

Thanks, that's interesting.

Still though, I think the characterization of Lakin as a twit or pos is out of place.

He does man a very prestigious position which indicates he has a high level of competency and accomplishment, it's not like he is some disgruntled misfit stuck out in the middle of tembuckfu.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I keep forgetting to say, glad to see you and ACLG on the same page on something, you two never seem to play well together.

I'm not viewing this through any political prism. I'm concerned with what's best for our military and country. Every soldier in the world could find a similar crusade and I'm thankful that most are more professional.

Again he exausted inquiry options through the chain of command and never received a satisfactory answer.

What a crock. The guy might have exhausted the world, but I'm sure everyone that received the call laughed and said get back to work.

Not everyone in the army agrees with you, several have already taken the action Col Lakin has.

If the rumors are true that he had already been approved for promotion to full colonel and as you surmise he has about 16 years in, then that means if he stayed for 30 yrs that he could very well make the rank of Lt Gen by the time he retired.

Absurd. MD's rarely do LTG. The head of the Medical Corps is an MG, unless something has changed. We don't want service folks at the helm, period. That's why a ceiling exists for guys in the JAG corps and Medical Corps.

That is a lot to give up to stand for a principle.

No it isn't. He is courting right wing money to make this happen and has a spot with them should this blow up.

Each time you call him a POS I lose a bit more respect for you. Call his action quixotic perhaps but character assassination is unbecoming of you all the rest who do the same.

I'm not here for respect. I'm here to share opinions. As to the man's character, he has done his own work. I have yet to talk to any current or former officer who would work with the guy. The questions have been casual, but service is service and none want to be in a unit with a guy like this.

I believe what he has done took much courage and willingness to sacrifice for a principle.

Fair enough. I believe what he is doing is absolutely unprofessional and unbecoming a Field Grade officer. Guess this kind of crap happens with REMFs, but it doesn't make it OK. Can you imagine an infantry battalion commander doing some crap like this? Ever?

Evidently you don't give a crap about that principle.

I don't give a crap about this principle. Nobody owes the man anything in the way of proof IMO. To the extent that he KNOWS he is receiving unlawful orders, he can disobey. Otherwise, he needs to shut his hole and be a soldier.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Thanks, that's interesting.

Still though, I think the characterization of Lakin as a twit or pos is out of place.

He does man a very prestigious position which indicates he has a high level of competency and accomplishment, it's not like he is some disgruntled misfit stuck out in the middle of tembuckfu.

This is what he has turned himself into. Surely you know that Benedict Arnold was likely the single best officer in our Army during the Revolutionary War, right? I think he's a POS.

 

[JTrainDavis]

This is what he has turned himself into. Surely you know that Benedict Arnold was likely the single best officer in our Army during the Revolutionary War, right? I think he's a POS.

If not for Daniel Morgan you could eliminate the 'likely'. Arnold is as good as they have come in America as field commanders.
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[gsvol]

I don't give a crap about this principle. Nobody owes the man anything in the way of proof IMO. To the extent that he KNOWS he is receiving unlawful orders, he can disobey. Otherwise, he needs to shut his hole and be a soldier.

Well I do give a crap about the principle.

So far he hasn't been charged, what do you think will happen??

Why would our charlatan in chief spend $2+ million avoiding the issue in civilian courts??

This is what he has turned himself into. Surely you know that Benedict Arnold was likely the single best officer in our Army during the Revolutionary War, right? I think he's a POS.

And to what enemy would say Col Lakin is attempting to betray America??

You're surely not trying to say you are cut from the same turd when you say you are a fellow officer and he is a POS?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Well I do give a crap about the principle.

So far he hasn't been charged, what do you think will happen??

Why would our charlatan in chief spend $2+ million avoiding the issue in civilian courts??





And to what enemy would say Col Lakin is attempting to betray America??

You're surely not trying to say you are cut from the same turd when you say you are a fellow officer and he is a POS?

I don't know what will happen. I know what should happen.

He's not being a traitor, just a deserter, which is a shootable offense.
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[gsvol]

I don't know what will happen. I know what should happen.

He's not being a traitor, just a deserter, which is a shootable offense.
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So now you are changing your tune??

Col Lakin HAS NOT deserted his post, that is just more silly hubris on your part.

Would you care to volunteer your rank and branch??