Desperate to chase his lost relevance

[DonjoVol]

He had the mic every day yet allowed that to be pushed from his wh. He owns it

He also said he left these decisions to the states. So you're now claiming no blame should be placed on any of the governors or big city mayors?

 

[utvolpj]

He also said he left these decisions to the states. So you're now claiming no blame should be placed on any of the governors or big city mayors?

Of course they should get blame but many likely built their policies off the message coming from the WH. As a leader, that should have been controlled

 

[DonjoVol]

Of course they should get blame but many likely built their policies off the message coming from the WH. As a leader, that should have been controlled

Okay. Then let's accurately put the blame where it lies or you can admit you wanted to Trump to be a dictator and force every state to open up their economies.

 

[utvolpj]

Okay. Then let's accurately put the blame where it lies or you can admit you wanted to Trump to be a dictator and force every state to open up their economies.

I've never said that. Why do you think speaking for others is a valid discussion tactic? It's terrible

I think that a national leader should have grabbed the mic and driven the narrative. Instead that job was delegated to fauci and we see how it went. There's enough blame to go around

 

[DonjoVol]

I've never said that. Why do you think speaking for others is a valid discussion tactic? It's terrible

I think that a national leader should have grabbed the mic and driven the narrative. Instead that job was delegated to fauci and we see how it went. There's enough blame to go around

You honestly think he can effectively "drive" a narrative when every mainstream media outlet will be critical of just about every single thing he says? The only time they praised him in unison was he chose to bomb Syria.

Plus you have members of another political party who would rather take the advice of the WHO, Fauci and their democrat party politicians. So please explain how he was going to win over those people.

 

[utvolpj]

You honestly think he can effectively "drive" a narrative when every mainstream media outlet will be critical of just about every single thing he says? The only time they praised him in unison was he chose to bomb Syria.

Plus you have members of another political party who would rather take the advice of the WHO, Fauci and their democrat party politicians. So please explain how he was going to win over those people.

He's the POTUS He was on TV every night for weeks. He had the ability to drive whatever narrative he wanted and punted. Instead he argued with people and talked about a decision he made months earlier than didn't really have much of an effect. He failed and we're still paying for it

The Trump of memes didn't care what people think. Guess those weren't correct

 

[Septic]

Those are viable arguments. His polling numbers are awful. Many Hispanics are jumping ship to the Republican Party. We can discuss that if you like. This is also polling done by Quinnipiac. Which tends to favor Democrats. So I would hate to see what the real data is.

I can make whatever claims I want about certain people supporting Biden. I highly doubt that are that many Jorgensen voters in here considering she barely got over 1% of the vote nationwide. Plus when yours and others political posts slant a certain way I am free to make whatever claims I want.

You mean when they don't fall in line with your particular beliefs, you label them without regard to their actual stated values.

You're a goof, that's a claim I feel comfortable making.

 

[DonjoVol]

He's the POTUS He was on TV every night for weeks. He had the ability to drive whatever narrative he wanted and punted. Instead he argued with people and talked about a decision he made months earlier than didn't really have much of an effect. He failed and we're still paying for it

You really aren't going to lay any of the blame on the news media or democrat party? This is why I don't take you seriously as a moderate or libertarian of any sort.

He actually did encourage the opening up of the economy. It was mainly Republican states who opened up first. You know this. Stop being lazy and partisan.

 

[DonjoVol]

You mean when they don't fall in line with your particular beliefs, you label them without regard to their actual stated values.

You're a goof, that's a claim I feel comfortable making.

Are you talking to yourself again LMAO.

Every single thing you accused me of in that first paragraph is something you've done on this forum many times. There is enough proof to back that up. Others even know it.

So instead of talking about an actual topic I brought up you do your usual deflection.

 

[utvolpj]

You really aren't going to lay any of the blame on the news media or democrat party? This is why I don't take you seriously as a moderate or libertarian of any sort.

He actually did encourage the opening up of the economy. It was mainly Republican states who opened up first. You know this. Stop being lazy and partisan.

No, the difference is I blame anyone who contributed to the cluster. That includes the impotent POTUS. You specifically giving him a pass is partisan and pathetic. He was supposedly in charge

 

[DonjoVol]

No, the difference is I blame anyone who contributed to the cluster. That includes the impotent POTUS. You specifically giving him a pass is partisan and pathetic. He was supposedly in charge

Wasn't giving him a pass. And one reason I prefer people like Desantis, Massie and Owens is they don't back down from your beloved media. Trump often did. That ended up being one of his downfalls.

I have also pointed out that his cabinet consisted of establishment GOP hacks. Which of course seems to be the types people in the "middle" love. You had his former FDA director Gottlieb making the rounds on mainstream media pushing the vaccine and now Elaine Chao, former transportation secretary and McConnell's wife, on the board of an EV charging station company. Gottlieb is also on the board of Pfizer.

 

[Septic]

Are you talking to yourself again LMAO.

Every single thing you accused me of in that first paragraph is something you've done on this forum many times. There is enough proof to back that up. Others even know it.

So instead of talking about an actual topic I brought up you do your usual deflection.

The old "I'm rubber and you're glue" retort.

If you've got an example of me creating a dichotomy of "Biden or Trump" - put up or shut up, my posting history is there for all to see. I actually voted for JoJo, as I've explicitly expressed a number of times - nonetheless, you'll eschew that immutable fact and label me as a partisan libtard simply because it's easier for you to gin up outrage without having to exert effort.

Don't worry, you aren't alone - it's a common tactic of the intellectually lazy.

 

[DonjoVol]

The old "I'm rubber and you're glue" retort.

If you've got an example of me creating a dichotomy of "Biden or Trump" - put up or shut up, my posting history is there for all to see. I actually voted for JoJo, as I've explicitly expressed a number of times - nonetheless, you'll eschew that immutable fact and label me as a partisan libtard simply because it's easier for you to gin up outrage without having to exert effort.

Don't worry, you aren't alone - it's a common tactic of the intellectually lazy.

So you're telling me you agree with libertarians like her running mate Spike Cohen and Shane Hazel?

And not answering questions regarding a topic or immediately deflecting is also another trait of the intellectually lazy. Which you have done both on several occasions.

So I'll give you one more chance. Let's talk about those low polling numbers Biden is receiving. And let's also talk about how Hispanics are jumping ship to the Republican Party and the reasons why.

 

[Septic]

So you're telling me you agree with libertarians like her running mate Spike Cohen and Shane Hazel?

And not answering questions regarding a topic or immediately deflecting is also another trait of the intellectually lazy. Which you have done both on several occasions.

So I'll give you one more chance. Let's talk about those low polling numbers Biden is receiving. And let's also talk about how Hispanics are jumping ship to the Republican Party and the reasons why.

I've found the libertarian platform more appealing than either of the two mainstream options. I don't agree with every politician on every topic any more than any other voter.

And you don't need to "give me a chance", I have no opinion on a debate about Biden or his polling. I don't support him, you don't either - so what do you want to discuss or are you just looking to hijack the thread by whattabouting? Sorry, not accepting the invitation to your circle jerk doesn't constitute support for him.

 

[utvolpj]

So you're telling me you agree with libertarians like her running mate Spike Cohen and Shane Hazel?

Spike is infinitely more qualified and intelligent than Owens

 

[DonjoVol]

Spike is infinitely more qualified and intelligent than Owens

From what I have seen him post his views seem very similar to Owens. So I am not sure what would make him more qualified than her.

 

[DonjoVol]

I've found the libertarian platform more appealing than either of the two mainstream options. I don't agree with every politician on every topic any more than any other voter.

And you don't need to "give me a chance", I have no opinion on a debate about Biden or his polling. I don't support him, you don't either - so what do you want to discuss or are you just looking to hijack the thread by whattabouting? Sorry, not accepting the invitation to your circle jerk doesn't constitute support for him.

The original post you responded, which was my response to Hill, I did mention Biden's disastrous poll numbers. Now I can see why some people would deflect as this makes Biden look awful and helps Trump if he decides to run. Since you responded to that post then I assume you did not like me bringing up the topic or maybe you wanted to discuss it.

Here is the link below. I have discussed in the past how the Republican Party will be more diverse and hopefully will become an actual party for the working class and working people of this country. Many Hispanics already work in fields such as construction, oil and gas industry, restaurant, hospitality, etc. So it seems like a shift could possibly be occurring with a major minority group in this country due to Biden's disastrous administration.

Biden job disapproval among Hispanics hits 60 percent: poll

 

[DonjoVol]

I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. That only works in a parliamentary system where coalition building allows power sharing. In our “winner take all” system, there is no incentive to build coalitions. Rather the dynamics of the process cause a natural binary outcome that only allows two parties that adjust their platforms by ingesting embryonic third parties. To loosely paraphrase Highlander „There can only be two“

I disagree. Gloria La Riva has ran for president on more than one occasion. However, she is not someone I would vote for but if she is going to run for president more people should have the opportunity to hear her out and decide for themselves. Here she is speaking in 2016. I agree completely with what she says until about the 50 second mark. Didn't someone else bring this up as well?

 

[OrangeTsar]

I disagree. Gloria La Riva has ran for president on more than one occasion. However, she is not someone I would vote for but if she is going to run for president more people should have the opportunity to hear her out and decide for themselves. Here she is speaking in 2016. I agree completely with what she says until about the 50 second mark. Didn't someone else bring this up as well?

What you link isn’t a disagreement with my premise that, third parties will never hold POWER in our non parliamentary system. Sure there will always be third parties and some of their candidates will have some darn good ideas. But any successful third party will either immediately get ingested into one of the existing two parties or else it will replace one of the existing two parties. See the creation o the Republican Party from 1856 to 1860 for an example

 

[DonjoVol]

What you link isn’t a disagreement with my premise that, third parties will never hold POWER in our non parliamentary system. Sure there will always be third parties and some of their candidates will have some darn good ideas. But any successful third party will either immediately get ingested into one of the existing two parties or else it will replace one of the existing two parties. See the creation o the Republican Party from 1856 to 1860 for an example

They do not hold power because too many people in this country are stuck in the two party mindset. Then the mainstream media pushes only a two party narrative. Now when one was given some airtime, Ross Perot, we saw what happened. What La Riva said at the beginning of that video is absolutely correct.

 

[OrangeTsar]

They do not hold power because too many people in this country are stuck in the two party mindset. Then the mainstream media pushes only a two party narrative. Now when one was given some airtime, Ross Perot, we saw what happened. What La Riva said at the beginning of that video is absolutely correct.

This has been the way of American politics even before there ever WAS a mainstream media. It is structural. In European Parlamentary Style systems, third parties are usually single issue based (The Greens for example) and they can get their issue addressed by joining into a governing coalition. In America, a position on every Single issue is already defined for each party . As a result, American Third parties are usually personality based and evaporate with the fading of the standard bearer. In the rare event when an American third party becomes focused on an issue, one of the two parties will broaden their message to attract that constituency into their tent. There is nothing nefarious or conspiratorial at play here.

 

[DonjoVol]

This has been the way of American politics even before there ever WAS a mainstream media. It is structural. In European Parlamentary Style systems, third parties are usually single issue based (The Greens for example) and they can get their issue addressed by joining into a governing coalition. In America, a position on every Single issue is already defined for each party . As a result, American Third parties are usually personality based and evaporate with the fading of the standard bearer. In the rare event when an American third party becomes focused on an issue, one of the two parties will broaden their message to attract that constituency into their tent. There is nothing nefarious or conspiratorial at play here.

If you notice in La Riva's interview she talks about single payer healthcare and healthcare for the undocumented. Notice how democrats have incorporated that type of talk into their platform and messaging. Of course that does not mean they will continue that talk on their platform. The democrats will get rid of it once its no longer convenient. The difference between La Riva and democrat politicians is she actually means what she says. Which I respect her for it but like I said will never vote for her.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Oh my God, the irony !!!
Have you ever seen a former POTUS go after his VP like this? Unreal.
Trump spokesman attacks Pence as 'desperate to chase his lost relevance' as the former VP mulls 2024 run

Trump is, was, and will always be an egomaniac, along with a desire to be an omnipotent dictator glorified as someone (or something) great. Those who lap his booty refuse to see that they're just pawn tools for him to achieve this desire.

 

[utvolpj]

Trump is, was, and will always be an egomaniac, along with a desire to be an omnipotent dictator glorified as someone (or something) great. Those who lap his booty refuse to see that they're just pawn tools for him to achieve this desire.

Which of his actual policies demonstrated his desire to be a dictator?

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Which of his actual policies demonstrated his desire to be a dictator?

Past experience with you shows that even when reliable sources are provided as proof, you deny the obvious and prefer to detour in pointless, and childish back and forth irrelevant arguing. So in response to your fake seeking of knowledge, you can find that information with even a rudimentary web search. I ain't playing your toddler game anymore. Every time you pull that stunt, I know and can smell exactly what it is: