Did Filipowski get what he deserved?

[walkenvol]

Quite the politician. There’s a problem and we want to talk it to death but we’re not going to take any tangible action unless mandatory!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Maybe Currie will give Wolken some quotes on this and let him do some PR...

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Maybe Currie will give Wolken some quotes on this and let him do some PR...

Just when I thought this thread could get any worse you had bring Ole Danny boy into it. Wolken needs to stick to what he does best… which we all know is covering the Junior Mixed Doubles Championships at the Amateur Australian Open.

Seriously, compare his tweets about college football and women’s tennis and there is a massive difference in enthusiasm and engagement.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Just when I thought this thread could get any worse you had bring Ole Danny boy into it. Wolken needs to stick to what he does best… which we all know is covering the Junior Mixed Doubles Championships at the Amateur Australian Open.

Seriously, compare his tweets about college football and women’s tennis and there is a massive difference in enthusiasm and engagement.

I'm glad to derail this thread...

 

[RDU VOL#14]

I'm glad to derail this thread...

Needed it

 

[Orange.]

^^^That is an extremely misleading, deceptively cut and spliced video. It's really implausible to think it was released and promulgated for any purpose other than to deceive.

You should start here:

 

[NashVol11]

^^^That is an extremely misleading, deceptively cut and spliced video. It's really implausible to think it was released and promulgated for any purpose other than to deceive.

You should start here:
View attachment 623026

Lol at "deceptive," I watched it happen live and you seem to be watching with your eyes closed

 

[volfanhill]

Benefit of the doubt goes to the person who was where he was supposed to be. Not the clown.

 

[SockeyeVol]

I think the harshest penalties need to be reserved for the home school that rushes the court after beating a 6-loss visiting team. I mean, how bad does your team have to be, to find THAT worthy of court-storming?

The ACC should relegate Wake to the A10, just on principle.

 

[Orange.]

Benefit of the doubt goes to the person who was where he was supposed to be. Not the clown.

Aw, but you haven't demonstrated a doubt. You're not entitled to assign benefits, much less entitled to assume a doubt. You're begging the question.

 

[Orange.]

If you go to the unedited game video, which I posted, and stop it frequently from the moment I indicated above through the collision and fall, you will be able see each moment I have described previously. F saw the fan and walked into him. Pretty nearly blindside him. With his arms raised in advance. And appears to have tripped him. I don't suspect he thought he would fall down too.

If you're not willing to do that, there's no sense in talking.

 

[Orange.]

I do feel sorry for F being injured. He apparently couldn't stand on his own power. I've never seen so many people carrying someone. There is no way a person in that state will be able to play this week, and that's a shame. I suppose we can be optimistic and hope there was a lot of overreaction. We can't discount without due consideration the possibility that, knowing that he had initiated the contact, and that he had fallen down as a result, he thought it best to exaggerate his injury, if he was injured. I hope we get the MRIs back soon, and everything is ok. I have never had anything against the guy.

But that doesn't mean F didn't intentionally initiate the contact. It just means that he failed to behave prudently and he suffered some consequences.

But that doesn't mean that court rushing will not or should not be banned. That is a prudential decision to be made. It in no way requires a moralistic story as a justification. F could have initiated contact and it could also it be prudent to ban court rushing. It's not an either/or.

Some people seem to be making the false judgement that if F were at fault, or even partially at fault, the rule can't be changed. That's not true.

 

[volfanbill]

I do feel sorry for F being injured. He apparently couldn't stand on his own power. I've never seen so many people carrying someone. There is no way a person in that state will be able to play this week, and that's a shame. I suppose we can be optimistic and hope there was a lot of overreaction. We can't discount without due consideration the possibility that, knowing that he had initiated the contact, and that he had fallen down as a result, he thought it best to exaggerate his injury, if he was injured. I hope we get the MRIs back soon, and everything is ok. I have never had anything against the guy.

But that doesn't mean F didn't intentionally initiate the contact. It just means that he failed to behave prudently and he suffered consequences.

But that doesn't mean that court rushing will not or should not be banned. That is a prudential decision to be made. It in no way requires a moralistic story as a justification. He could have initiated contact and it could also it be prudent to ban court rushing. It's not an either/or.

Some people seem to be making the false judgement that if F were at fault, or even partially at fault, the rule can't be changed. That's not true.

You really are wearing some seriously tinted glasses. Or have bad cataracts. Please don’t ever drive the roads I’m on

 

[Orange.]

You really are wearing some seriously tinted glasses. Or have bad cataracts. Please don’t ever drive the roads I’m on

I'm coming up right behind you, watch out!

Seriously: Look for the moments I described and compare them to the full video, beginning where I suggested, and then explain to me how my observations are not correct. I don't mind being wrong.

But it seems a lot of people are missing that once F changed direction (toward his bench), moving toward the fan, he paused for one other fan to pass, and then looking straight at the fan he soon collided with, he walked determinedly into him, preparing for the impact in advance, and not unlikely intentionally tripping him, and shoving him as he fell. Freeze frame it. I've have the stills, but I'm sick of talking with people who think slights and insults are arguments.

What exactly do you think is at stake in absolving F of 100% of the responsibility? Seriously. It's not going to change the outcome. Are people afraid they can't say the court stormers were wrong if they also notice that F was wrong? Life's not that simple. It can be both.

 

[volfanbill]

I'm coming up right behind you, watch out!

Seriously: Look for the moments I described and compare them to the full video, beginning where I suggested, and then explain to me how my observations are not correct. I don't mind being wrong.

But it seems a lot of people are missing that once F changed direction, moving toward the fan, he paused for one other fan to pass, and then looking straight at the fan he collided with he walked determinedly into him, preparing for the impact in advance, and not unlikely intentionally tripping him, and shoving him as he fell. Freeze frame it. I've have the stills, but I'm sick of talking with people who think slights and insults are arguments.

Also be sure to think about #36.

What exactly do you think is at stake in absolving F of 100% of the responsibility? Seriously. It's not going to change the outcome.

I’ve watched it plenty. He moves to dodge some fans coming right at him. Then gets blindsided. Then stumbles into more. None of them are giving any attention that he’s even there. You conveniently think life moves in extreme slow motion. In frozen frames. Sorry, life don’t work that way. Freeze frame your idiocy and come back.

 

[Orange.]

I’ve watched it plenty. He moves to dodge some fans coming right at him. Then gets blindsided. Then stumbles into more. None of them are giving any attention that he’s even there. You conveniently think life moves in extreme slow motion. In frozen frames. Sorry, life don’t work that way. Freeze frame your idiocy and come back.

He didn't move, he paused. He saw the three fans running three-abreast parallel to the team bench at that point, and looking directly at them and the one closest to him in particular as he neared him, F nearly blindsided the fan. He pushed him in spite and tried to trip him, I am almost sure. He could have avoided that.

I do not think things move in slow motion. The essential thing is that you can see F looking right at the kid he hammered well in advance. He saw him. The fan only saw F at the last split second, as it appears to me.

OTOH, I don't think that none of the other fans coming up immediately on the scene ignored F. If I'm not mistaken one or some of the them appear to me to have shoved F as he fell. Whether they were trying to keep their balance, or did it intentionally because they saw him shove the fan in front of them, or whether they just did it because he was on the other team and they were being spiteful and reckless jerks, I can't really discern.

 

[volfanbill]

He didn't move, he paused. He saw the three fans running three-abreast parallel to the team bench at that point, and looking directly at them and the one closest to him in particular as he neared him, F nearly blindsided the fan. He pushed him in spite and tried to trip him, I am almost sure. He could have avoided that.

I do not think things move in slow motion. The essential thing is that you can see F looking right at the kid he hammered well in advance. He saw him. The fan only saw F at the last split second, as it appears to me.

I don't think not of the other fans coming up immediately on the scene ingnored him. If I'm not mistaken one or some of the them appear to me to have shoved F after he fell. Whether they were trying to keep their balance, or did it intentionally because they saw him shove the fan in front of them, or whether they just did it because he was on the other team and they were being spiteful jerks, I can't really discern.

You are basing your entire philosophy off your stills and slow motion. Don’t lie and say otherwise. How can Flip blindside anyone? He’s 7 feet tall and couldn’t move around all the court stormers. He was the only person in position the entire time. Well in advance? The whole scene took only a couple of seconds. Just stop

 

[Orange.]

You are basing your entire philosophy off your stills and slow motion. Don’t lie and say otherwise. How can Flip blindside anyone? He’s 7 feet tall and couldn’t move around all the court stormers. He was the only person in position the entire time. Well in advance? The whole scene took only a couple of seconds. Just stop

Agree to disagree. I shouldn't have even commented. I don't want to be part of this mess. Here are the stills I was talking about. Make of them what you will. We don't have to agree.

It appears to me that F sees the fan already right here. He's looking straight at him.


And marches right into them:


Make of it what you will.

 

[volfanbill]

Agree to disagree. I shouldn't have even commented. I don't want to be part of this mess. Here are the stills I was talking about. Make of them what you will. We don't have to agree.

It appears to me that F sees the fan already right here. He's looking straight at him.
View attachment 623052

And marches right into them:

Here’s the stills that I don’t base everything off of. Brilliant.

 

[volfanbill]

The entire court was filled with court stormers. By your theory, his only option is to levitate above them. Since he sees them coming, this is somehow his responsibility.

 

[Orange.]

Here’s the stills that I don’t base everything off of. Brilliant.

I do base my view on them. I was saying that I didn't insist that you agree with my interpretation of those facts. I wasn't and am not disavowing my view. I still think the crux of the matter is that a lot people (I don't say you) appear to think that unless F was 100% blameless, the court storming policy won't change. I think that he can be at fault for his part in it (not the entire mess) and the rule will change, anyway. He could even be exaggerating his injury (I can't say one way or the other and do not allege it) and the rule will still change. Or maybe it is that they want to feel righteous indignation, and a more complex situation ruins their fun?

I just saw your question: How could F blindside the fans. He could blind side them by approaching from the side (at about a 45 degree angle) when they were looking straight ahead. He was looking at them. I ask you: How could they blindside him since he was looking at them?

Some other Duke players ran off the court. F's original path (#31) seems like it would have worked at a walk or especially at a trot. I have never said that the fans didn't cause a mess. There will be a new policy. F just looks like he decided to march right through and looked to shove someone out of his way if they didn't yield right of way. There was a Duke player further from the Duke bench and closer to the on-rushing fans than F, and he successfully ran off the court.

 

[Orange.]

I'm grateful to you @volfanbill for insisting that I show you stills. I decided to look further and look at this!
---

Below. F must be pissed because he looks immediately to punch the kid. He looks straight at the kid (who some falsely claim blindsided F ) and balls his fist to punch him. Simultaneously he raises a forearm. The kid is looking off to his right. (As I showed in an earlier post, F has been looking straight at the kid for a while as he walked toward him. He did this instead of running off the court.) And note: The kid (fan) has plenty of room to pass by F, if F had not subsequently moved into the kid's path. F also clearly has plenty of room on the left to dodge the fan. F could even to stand still and avoid contact.

Below. F continues to stare the kid down, appearing ready to use a punch and forearm shiver as the kid moves nearer. The kid is still not looking at F. F is going to blindside the kid.

Below. Now the kid finally sees F. F has meanwhile positioned himself in front of the kid with a foot and with his fist still balled. Now the kid can no longer get around F. And he can't stop. The kid's body language is non threatening. He looks like he raises his index finger in the #1 sign.

Below. F now leans toward the kid with his upper body and completely blocks the kid's way by raising his foot. F clearly intends to cause a collision. He has made it unavoidable. He intends to trip the kid.

Below: F trips the kid intentionally. The kid never makes contact with F -- except for being on the receiving end of F's extended arms, shoving the tripped kid to the hardwood. The kid absolutely did not run into F. It was the other way around. The kid absolutely did not blindside F. It's clear beyond every shadow of a doubt.



Below: Now this is sad. As a result of F deliberately tripping a kid running at speed, in the tangle up that F initiated completely on his own, F may have injured his own knee and/or ankle by the force of contact and the twisting action that the helpless kid's falling body occasioned. Tripping the kid put F off balance, and F may also or otherwise have accidentally injured himself by landing awkwardly on the ankle he used to sweep the kid's legs and shove the kid to the floor. F's injuries, if he is injured, are 100% self inflicted.



---
In summary, F saw the fan. F walked directly to the fan. F failed to avoid the fan by merely standing still or by making use of all the open space to his left. F balled his fist and raised a forearm in preparation for the collision before the fan ever saw F. F wholly initiated the collision. F used his lower leg -- knee and ankle -- to intentionally sweep the running kid's legs, and shoved the kid to the hardwood with his arms.

Some "martyr" this guy makes. Disgusting.

As an added bonus, I also provide you with clear evidence that F had two different routes to run off the court, instead of stalking this kid and looking to "make a point." See also the path of a different Duke player, further from the Duke bench and nearer to the onrushing fans, who successfully ran off court. He apparently wanted to flee any contact and get to the locker room. The difference seems to be that F was angry and wanted to make the someone pay. If F injured his knee and/or ankle, it was the clear result of his own reckless and violent actions.


---
Btw, I have never said "Filipowski got what he deserved." I think that is a bad thread title. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean. Does it mean did F deserve to trip the kid and throw him to the ground? Does it mean did he deserve to be a cause celebre and martyr? I'm not interested in all that. I just wanted to see for myself what happened. I'm baffled by the antagonism.

 

[Orange.]

I’ve watched it plenty. He moves to dodge some fans coming right at him. Then gets blindsided. Then stumbles into more. None of them are giving any attention that he’s even there. You conveniently think life moves in extreme slow motion. In frozen frames. Sorry, life don’t work that way. Freeze frame your idiocy and come back.

Oh, I get it. I think you are exaggerating but talking about after F fell down as a result of deliberately tripping and shoving the first kid to the hardwood unprovoked. It's confusing because a lot of outlets are cutting the video up and playing it out of order. The reason apparently is that it enables them to show F on the ground in front on onrushing people without showing that F falling was a result of him needlessly bullying a kid. But the primary -- immediately preceding -- event showed the opposite. F initiated the contact. Instead of running off the court like all his team had already done. Study what I made you and then play the correct (chronologically first) part of the video at full speed several times. You'll see. You only use the stills to know what to look for in the video. I think you misunderstand that too.

 

[NashVol11]

Oh, I get it. I think you are exaggerating but talking about after F fell down as a result of deliberately tripping and shoving the first kid to the hardwood unprovoked. It's confusing because a lot of outlets are cutting the video up and playing it out of order. The reason apparently is that it enables them to show F on the ground in front on onrushing people without showing that F falling was a result of him needlessly bullying a kid. But the primary -- immediately preceding -- event showed the opposite. F initiated the contact. Instead of running off the court like all his team had already done. Study what I made you and then play the correct (chronologically first) part of the video at full speed several times. You'll see. You only use the stills to know what to look for in the video. I think you misunderstand that too.

Doubling down forever isn’t going to make you any less wrong lol

 

[VolNExile]

Ok, if I’m a player trying to get to my locker room after a losing game, and I see, what? hundreds of opposing fans pouring onto the court, blocking my way, what exactly am I supposed to do? Just stand there like some giant potted plant in a blue uniform?

I would think I might stride my way off that court, possibly even sticking out an elbow, just to get the hell out of there.

Meanwhile, if I’m a nonplayer out on the court and see a 6’20” or whatever he is guy in blue heading my way, where I come up to maybe his armpit, I think I’m going to zig around him.

It’s one thing for a player to pull crap on opponents during a game (cough Draemond Green cough.) It’s another when someone is trying to head upstream against a bunch of crazies.

- and no, it’s nothing like the Bama player assaulting the UT student on the football field.