Disliking Obama: Politics or Pigmentation?

#53
#53
yeah, he's been associated with the Church of Christ since the mid-80's and professes to be a Christian. It's not hard to guess why many believe or assume he is Muslim, and that assertion bounces around the net a lot. His father was raised as a Muslim, and that's where he gets his not-so-local sounding name. But there is nothing valid that I know of to indicate he is Muslim, and as I said, he himself has professed the Christian faith for over 20 years.
 
#55
#55
All Vol! said:
so, now that we've straightened that out, I guess he's got your vote, right? :)
Click to expand...

i don't know about that. i have issues on both sides. on that note though it does make it easier for me to vote for him, and as empire knows it will be damn near impossible for me to vote republican. i think powell would be the only way.
 
#58
#58
champyvol said:
the only problem i have with obama is that he is of the muslim faith. i just can't seem to get by that.
Click to expand...

For All Vol and myself and all other Obama supporters, we have about 17 months to overturn all these stereotypes about him - that he's Muslim, that his name is Osama, that he's a socialist. I see him as an wise, patient, community-oriented, consensus-building Christian family man.

For GAVol and all those who think he has no substance, I recommend you read this article in the New Yorker.

Profiles: The Conciliator: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker
 
#59
#59
OrangeEmpire said:
You know if it wasn't for your avatar, I would really, really, really like you.

:thumbsup:

redlogo.gif
Click to expand...

If I root for the Reds in the Central Division could I convince you to start supporting Obama?
 
#60
#60
wbarron said:
For GAVol and all those who think he has no substance, I recommend you read this article in the New Yorker.
Click to expand...

I made it through page 1 . . . then saw there were 11 pages and decided to go organize my sock drawer instead.
 
#61
#61
GAVol said:
I made it through page 1 . . . then saw there were 11 pages and decided to go organize my sock drawer instead.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. For your benefit I'll give you the blogger's version:

-Unlike his parents, who roamed the earth trying to escape their past, he's confronted his heritage head-on and decided to settle and raise a family and be a part of a community.

-He's a devout Christian.

-He believes that change happens over a long period of time and that revolutions aren't the way to get the job done. He also has learned that the government is not the answer to every problem.

-He's a consensus builder above all.

-He knows that he might be wrong on some issues: "We must talk and reach for common understandings, precisely because all of us are imperfect and can never act wit hteh certainty that God is on our side."

-He doesn't sweat the small stuff and is extremely comfortable with himself rather than worrying whether everyone likes him.

-He might be the most grounded candidate we've got.
 
#62
#62
I have no doubt that all of that is true. He seems like a good man. In my mind though, he lacks the necessary experience and his policy positions (the few that he has been forced to take positions on so far) are just left of what I want in a President.
 
#63
#63
GAVol said:
I have no doubt that all of that is true. He seems like a good man. In my mind though, he lacks the necessary experience and his policy positions (the few that he has been forced to take positions on so far) are just left of what I want in a President.
Click to expand...

Fair.
 
#64
#64
It will be interesting to see what happens when the campaigns really get up to full speed and Clinton Inc. starts coming at Obama with their guns blazing. If the "Obama wave" is still rolling come Labor Day, I'd bet we are in for some serious mud slinging.
 
#65
#65
GAVol said:
It will be interesting to see what happens when the campaigns really get up to full speed and Clinton Inc. starts coming at Obama with their guns blazing. If the "Obama wave" is still rolling come Labor Day, I'd bet we are in for some serious mud slinging.
Click to expand...

Agreed. They're cordial right now, but the Clinton machine is going to kick it in. I think Obama will still be alive and well by then - I just hope he doesn't flame out too soon. Seems he's too smart to do that.

Do you have an early favorite?
 
#66
#66
wbarron said:
Do you have an early favorite?
Click to expand...

With all the money and people behind Hillary, it's really hard for me to envision a scenario where she doesn't win the nomination unless voters just determine that her negatives make her unelectable in the general election.

I think you are dead on with your concern about Obama flaming out though. I think he's the one that's got to get dirty. He could go a long way if he'd just run based on "Vote for me because I'm likable and she's not".
 
#67
#67
GAVol said:
I have no doubt that all of that is true. He seems like a good man. In my mind though, he lacks the necessary experience and his policy positions (the few that he has been forced to take positions on so far) are just left of what I want in a President.
Click to expand...

Did you vote for W? He had very little experience in governmental affairs. He didn't do a lot when he was governor of Texas. Plus he wasn't even remotely qualified
 
#68
#68
truefan said:
Did you vote for W? He had very little experience in governmental affairs.
Click to expand...

Disagreeing with his policy is fine . . . but don't pretend that being a 2nd term governor doesn't qualify as experience in governmental affairs.
 
#70
#70
GAVol said:
I have no doubt that all of that is true. He seems like a good man. In my mind though, he lacks the necessary experience and his policy positions (the few that he has been forced to take positions on so far) are just left of what I want in a President.
Click to expand...

What experience in formal government is really necessary to be a good or great president? Are you insisting a would-be pres must be intimately familiar with governmental processes...know how many seats there are in the congress & senate, etc.? It's not like a president-elect is sworn in and is then locked in the oval office by himself, forced to rely on his own decision-making ability to guide the nation either to prosperity or ruin. Probably no office prepares one really for the highest office. Besides, a president surrounds himself with many advisors who contribute much to executive decisions; in a very real sense, a lot of advisors comprise the presidential body, I think it's fair to say.

If I'm looking for the ideal president, I'm not looking first and foremost at the most "experienced" candidate. In fact, I believe our country is at a crucial type of crossroads, such that traditional experience in government is perhaps a potential pitfall as much or more than a plus. Instead, I'm looking for a candidate with a truly fresh view of leadership, and I only see one. For me, the most important qualifier is moral and ethical fabric. If that's there, his/her decisions are going to be good ones in most cases. I don't know, I guess I just want a president I can admire and be proud of for a change. For once.
 
#71
#71
All Vol! said:
What experience in formal government is really necessary to be a good or great president? Are you insisting a would-be pres must be intimately familiar with governmental processes...know how many seats there are in the congress & senate, etc.? It's not like a president-elect is sworn in and is then locked in the oval office by himself, forced to rely on his own decision-making ability to guide the nation either to prosperity or ruin. Probably no office prepares one really for the highest office. Besides, a president surrounds himself with many advisors who contribute much to executive decisions; in a very real sense, a lot of people make comprise the presidential body, I think it's fair to say.

If I'm looking for the ideal president, I'm not looking first and foremost at the most "experienced" candidate. In fact, I believe our country is at a crucial type of crossroads, such that traditional experience in government is perhaps a potential pitfall as much or more than a plus. Instead, I'm looking for for a candidate with a truly fresh view of leadership, and I only see one. For me, the most important qualifier is moral and ethical fabric. If that's there, his/her decisions are going to be good ones. I don't know, I guess I just want a president I can admire and be proud of for a change. For once.
Click to expand...


JFK?

:yes:
 
#72
#72
All Vol! said:
In fact, I believe our country is at a crucial type of crossroads, such that traditional experience in government is perhaps a potential pitfall as much or more than a plus.
Click to expand...

...a rather convenient stance when your guy was in the Illinois state senate 2 years ago.
 
#73
#73
All Vol! said:
well, generally, lawsuits (such as Paula Jones's) that are dismissed in court as baseless are not offered very often as documention of something.
Click to expand...

Well you were saying the voting populace did not find out about his ways until after he was elected the second time. The court of public opinion has nothing to do with what the actual courts did.
 
#74
#74
GAVol said:
...a rather convenient stance when your guy was in the Illinois state senate 2 years ago.
Click to expand...

that's fair enough, but I wouldn't characterize it that way; I'm far from the first Obama supporter to express a comfort level with his lack of high profile government experience. For me at least, the comfort came first, not the convenience.

I must admit I'm a little disappointed this was the first (only?) point in my post from which you drew blood; whats-a-matter, too fluffy for ya? :p
 
#75
#75
allvol123 said:
Well you were saying the voting populace did not find out about his ways until after he was elected the second time. The court of public opinion has nothing to do with what the actual courts did.
Click to expand...

a few days has made this topic a little foggy, but the point I was making is that Clinton was popular enough to overcome such things, especially when her claims were not upheld in a court of law. Even the Monika thing wouldn't have prevented him from re-election, if that had happened before the 2nd term, imo. But look, this is kind of a moot topic now because I had already conceded that I was probably wrong in my initial guess that voters would dismiss Guiliani because of his marital history. There's plenty enough other reasons voters will likely kick him to the curb. :yes:
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top