Diversity, Inclusion, and Disqualification

#26
#26
AshG said:
At risk of sounding like some godless leftist who burns flags to stay warm, years of experience working with students have shown me that it's important for students to see people who look like them working in the field they want to go into; it builds confidence and reinforces grit. There are multiple studies that strongly suggest this, too.
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I buy this and it is valid reason we try to make hires accordingly.
 
#27
#27
AshG said:
At risk of sounding like some godless leftist who burns flags to stay warm, years of experience working with students have shown me that it's important for students to see people who look like them working in the field they want to go into; it builds confidence and reinforces grit. There are multiple studies that strongly suggest this, too.
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Most students don’t give a crap about the field their suppose to go into until after school and they have to get a job. Then they end up having to get a job in a completely unrelated field or end up “teaching”. If a minority person doesn’t see enough people “like them” in med school I really don’t give a s**t and it should be that way for everything. Do you want an affirmative action doctor or the guy who was top of his class? After many years of working with, serving with, and interacting with all kinds of people I realize some people are just dumb and will never be good at anything regardless of how long they go to school. Some people are flat out unemployable….or should be. It should be the best people available should be hired for EVERY job and if that means 100 white people with zero minorities or vice versa then so be it.
 
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#30
#30
AshG said:
I realize I am potentially uncorking a genie bottle with this one, but the variety of viewpoints found here is why I'm bringing it up.

I'm currently in the middle of a job hunt for the third summer in a row. My first position was eliminated because of COVID-related budget cuts. I was passed over for a permanent position (I held the interim) this time because of "intangibles", All of that is somewhere in the OT thread. There's more to the latter one, but it is what it is.

Long story short, I'm confused by multiple signals I'm getting in the job market and input I'm receiving from others close to me. The world is all about "Celebrate Diversity!" now, and that's cool. I'm glad to see my profession starting to mirror its participants. Many jobs I'm applying for note "Diverse applicants encouraged". At the same time, friends of mine in HR and a couple in the band world are counselling me to hide my disability. Remove anything about it from searchable media, social media, etc. Hide part of what makes me who I am.

I have one leg. It's part of who I am. Legally, I'm a protected class of citizen. I am legally considered a "diversity candidate." So why the push for me to hide it? It doesn't keep me from doing the job; my eyes, ears, and arms all work great. I have taught collegiate marching bands and even been a collegiate band director. So what if I'm 14% carbon fiber and 1% titanium?

If Diversity is the word of the age, then why should I hide what makes me diverse? Is Diversity just a code word for something else, and disabilities are not cool enough to make the cut?
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Their def of diversity is homosexual, mexican or black.
 
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#31
#31
AshG said:
I realize I am potentially uncorking a genie bottle with this one, but the variety of viewpoints found here is why I'm bringing it up.

I'm currently in the middle of a job hunt for the third summer in a row. My first position was eliminated because of COVID-related budget cuts. I was passed over for a permanent position (I held the interim) this time because of "intangibles", All of that is somewhere in the OT thread. There's more to the latter one, but it is what it is.

Long story short, I'm confused by multiple signals I'm getting in the job market and input I'm receiving from others close to me. The world is all about "Celebrate Diversity!" now, and that's cool. I'm glad to see my profession starting to mirror its participants. Many jobs I'm applying for note "Diverse applicants encouraged". At the same time, friends of mine in HR and a couple in the band world are counselling me to hide my disability. Remove anything about it from searchable media, social media, etc. Hide part of what makes me who I am.

I have one leg. It's part of who I am. Legally, I'm a protected class of citizen. I am legally considered a "diversity candidate." So why the push for me to hide it? It doesn't keep me from doing the job; my eyes, ears, and arms all work great. I have taught collegiate marching bands and even been a collegiate band director. So what if I'm 14% carbon fiber and 1% titanium?

If Diversity is the word of the age, then why should I hide what makes me diverse? Is Diversity just a code word for something else, and disabilities are not cool enough to make the cut?
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No advice. A question has been on my mind since you posted in the OT thread about the "intangibles". Did they give you insight on what intangibles swayed them to not offer you a permanent position?
 
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#32
#32
McDad said:
No advice. A question has been on my mind since you posted in the OT thread about the "intangibles". Did they give you insight on what intangibles swayed them to not offer you a permanent position?
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I'm about to have lunch with someone close to the situation. I'll be asking that.

I'm pissed because they were singing my praises and the dept chair even told me they were committed to me and the students loved me and trust the process - right up until she told me she offered someone else. I missed out on several other opportunities because of that.
 
#33
#33
C-south said:
Why is racism valid?
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It's not racism. It's not quotas. We don't hire less qualified people for diversity reasons and we do not exclude people who are white or male.

I've been involved in faculty hiring for over 25 years - I can't recall our hiring someone less qualified than other candidates because of some diversity goals.
 
#34
#34
utvolpj said:
How will you ever know as long as they have the same degree/license? I've never seen an MD post their gpa or test scores
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That isn't the point, but i guess if minimums weren't good enough they wouldn't be minimums. Of course the corollary to that is 'if it doesn't meet standards, lower your standards ' that's what the left does.
 
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#36
#36
AshG said:
I realize I am potentially uncorking a genie bottle with this one, but the variety of viewpoints found here is why I'm bringing it up.

I'm currently in the middle of a job hunt for the third summer in a row. My first position was eliminated because of COVID-related budget cuts. I was passed over for a permanent position (I held the interim) this time because of "intangibles", All of that is somewhere in the OT thread. There's more to the latter one, but it is what it is.

Long story short, I'm confused by multiple signals I'm getting in the job market and input I'm receiving from others close to me. The world is all about "Celebrate Diversity!" now, and that's cool. I'm glad to see my profession starting to mirror its participants. Many jobs I'm applying for note "Diverse applicants encouraged". At the same time, friends of mine in HR and a couple in the band world are counselling me to hide my disability. Remove anything about it from searchable media, social media, etc. Hide part of what makes me who I am.

I have one leg. It's part of who I am. Legally, I'm a protected class of citizen. I am legally considered a "diversity candidate." So why the push for me to hide it? It doesn't keep me from doing the job; my eyes, ears, and arms all work great. I have taught collegiate marching bands and even been a collegiate band director. So what if I'm 14% carbon fiber and 1% titanium?

If Diversity is the word of the age, then why should I hide what makes me diverse? Is Diversity just a code word for something else, and disabilities are not cool enough to make the cut?
Click to expand...
I work in the wokest of woke areas like others here do as well. I work in Academia, I’m at my 4th college/university. Don’t see any reason to hide your disability. If you are the best candidate for the job, all you will get asked is ‘Do you need any accommodations?’

I literally just accepted a job and have a disability listed. They didn’t ask the specifics, all they ask is if I can reasonably do the job if given accommodation.
 
#37
#37
SpaceCoastVol said:
That isn't the point, but i guess if minimums weren't good enough they wouldn't be minimums. Of course the corollary to that is 'if it doesn't meet standards, lower your standards ' that's what the left does.
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That's confusing. Has left has lowered the standards to become a Dr?
 
#38
#38
C/O said:
I work in the wokest of woke areas like others here do as well. I work in Academia, I’m at my 4th college/university. Don’t see any reason to hide your disability. If you are the best candidate for the job, all you will get asked is ‘Do you need any accommodations?’

I literally just accepted a job and have a disability listed. They didn’t ask the specifics, all they ask is if I can reasonably do the job if given accommodation.
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There aren't that many one legged marching band directors. I can teach drill and music with the best of them, I just can't walk alongside on the parades. That's it. And that's enough for many places.
 
#40
#40
AshG said:
I'm about to have lunch with someone close to the situation. I'll be asking that.

I'm pissed because they were singing my praises and the dept chair even told me they were committed to me and the students loved me and trust the process - right up until she told me she offered someone else. I missed out on several other opportunities because of that.
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I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but "intangibles" comes across to me as intentionally ill-defined. Do you think there are characteristics/traits about you which may make others uncomfortable and those things are embarrassing for an employer to convey?
 
#41
#41
AshG said:
There aren't that many one legged marching band directors. I can teach drill and music with the best of them, I just can't walk alongside on the parades. That's it. And that's enough for many places.
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Why not? And i don't mean to be insensitive with that question.
 
#42
#42
AshG said:
There aren't that many one legged marching band directors. I can teach drill and music with the best of them, I just can't walk alongside on the parades. That's it. And that's enough for many places.
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I would buy you a kick-ass Segway to "march" alongside your band. People would love that. Especially if they knew about or could see your prosthetic leg.
 
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#43
#43
utvolpj said:
How will you ever know as long as they have the same degree/license? I've never seen an MD post their gpa or test scores
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I’m hopeful in assuming that the medical field hasn’t been bombarded with “wokeness” and hopefully it never will. It should also be that way universally.
 
#44
#44
McDad said:
I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but "intangibles" comes across to me as intentionally ill-defined. Do you think there are characteristics/traits about you which may make others uncomfortable and those things are embarrassing for an employer to convey?
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Forgive me for interjecting but it’s my guess that that was a form of “white lie” because they were wanting to hire a different skin color but did not want to be on record on that.
 
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#45
#45
volinbham said:
It's not racism. It's not quotas. We don't hire less qualified people for diversity reasons and we do not exclude people who are white or male.

I've been involved in faculty hiring for over 25 years - I can't recall our hiring someone less qualified than other candidates because of some diversity goals.
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So when you have two equally qualified applicants it’s then that you factor race?
 
#47
#47
Something you had zero control over should not affect hiring decisions one way or the other. It shouldn't even be a "tiebreaker".
 
#48
#48
RavinDave said:
Forgive me for interjecting but it’s my guess that that was a form of “white lie” because they were wanting to hire a different skin color but did not want to be on record on that.
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I bet you're right. Too obvious for me and I missed it.
 
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