D'Montre Edwards not on JUCO AA

#51
#51
zansdad said:
I don't think so.
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Yes we had bc they included the bump rule which turned out not to be a violation.....we had not went before the committee to defend ourselves yet but we had received their findings and what our program was accused of.
 
#52
#52
volbeast33 said:
Yes we had bc they included the bump rule which turned out not to be a violation.....we had not went before the committee to defend ourselves yet but we had received their findings and what our program was accused of.
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The NCAA let UT off easier since Pearl was terminated. Had Pearl stayed, the NCAA would have laid the hammer to the whole department. Had he still been coach you can bet there would have been a "lack of institutional" control levied at UT.
 
#53
#53
zansdad said:
The NCAA let UT off easier since Pearl was terminated. Had Pearl stayed, the NCAA would have laid the hammer to the whole department. Had he still been coach you can bet there would have been a "lack of institutional" control levied at UT.
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We are not discussing whether pearl deserved to be fired or if the ncaa would have punished Tennessee worse if pearl was kept as coach.....the discussion is about whether pearl committing recruiting violations helped him recruit and my take is that the ncaa looked at us as close as.they could and found no major recruiting violations.
 
#54
#54
volbeast33 said:
We are not discussing whether pearl deserved to be fired or if the ncaa would have punished Tennessee worse if pearl was kept as coach.....the discussion is about whether pearl committing recruiting violations helped him recruit and my take is that the ncaa looked at us as close as.they could and found no major recruiting violations.
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You need to decide if your arguement is no major recruiting violations or no major violations period.

Recruiting violations, it depends on whether they saw Pearl knowingly breaking the same rule he had already been punished for as a major violation. not sure if the phone calls would have been a major or not, they got swept away once Pearl started lying about the picture

If your just taking major violations, like you said at the very first, they had him on lying and attempting to coerce Craftsl's father.

I'm not sure what your argument is really. You first said he committed no major violations, that's just not true. If you want to say he committed no major recruiting violations, fine. That's not what you originally said, but fine. We won't ever really know though. The NCAA had Pearl dead to rights lying, and once they made it clear to Hamilton and Cheek the way things were going to be, they moved on. They have too many cases and not enough people to spend time chasing individual violations down in an already slam dunk case.

Listen, we will just have to agree to see this differently. I am never going to sway you and you aren't going to change my opinion either. Let's find something else to discuss in a different thread.

Peace
 
#55
#55
zansdad said:
You need to decide if your arguement is no major recruiting violations or no major violations period.

Recruiting violations, it depends on whether they saw Pearl knowingly breaking the same rule he had already been punished for as a major violation. not sure if the phone calls would have been a major or not, they got swept away once Pearl started lying about the pictureo

If your just taking major violations, like you said at the very first, they had him on lying and attempting to coerce Craftsl's father.

I'm not sure what your argument is really. You first said he committed no major violations, that's just not true. If you want to say he committed no major recruiting violations, fine. That's not what you originally said, but fine. We won't ever really know though. The NCAA had Pearl dead to rights lying, and once they made it clear to Hamilton and Cheek the way things were going to be, they moved on. They have too many cases and not enough people to spend time chasing individual violations down in an already slam dunk case.

Listen, we will just have to agree to see this differently. I am never going to sway you and you aren't going to change my opinion either. Let's find something else to discuss in a different thread.

Peace
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I can agree on that....
 
#56
#56
volbeast33 said:
Yes we had bc they included the bump rule which turned out not to be a violation.....we had not went before the committee to defend ourselves yet but we had received their findings and what our program was accused of.
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I think you're getting two things conflated. Pearl was still at UT after UT reeived the "Notice of Violations", which laid out the charges/violations levied against UT.

He was fired prior to the announcement of findings and penalties portion of the investigation, in an attempt to lessen the blow against the University. That attempt was ultimately successful; I think if Pearl hadn't been fired, the University itself would've suffered far worse penalties.
 
#57
#57
MemphisCanes said:
I think you're getting two things conflated. Pearl was still at UT after UT reeived the "Notice of Violations", which laid out the charges/violations levied against UT.

He was fired prior to the announcement of findings and penalties portion of the investigation, in an attempt to lessen the blow against the University. That attempt was ultimately successful; I think if Pearl hadn't been fired, the University itself would've suffered far worse penalties.
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No......I go everyone confused.....I was talking with BTO that the ncaa never found major recruiting violations Bruce pearl committed to bring players here...BTO was saying the reason his second looked better than CCM at least on paper was bc pearl was cheating.
 
#58
#58
volbeast33 said:
BTO was saying the reason his second looked better than CCM at least on paper was bc pearl was cheating.
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Whoa whoa whoa....that is not what I said.

You were saying how disappointed you are with CCM recruiting, and that Pearl did a good job with his 2nd class. All I said about the violations was, you're going to sit here and compare CCM to Pearl, who knowingly committed recruiting violations, and say CCM should've been on the same level. My point being, dont you think there's a pretty good chance that pearl was probably doing shady stuff long before the BBQ, and that maybe that helped land some of those classes?

That's all I was saying, not that he definitely was or not that it was limited to his second class, just the fact you're going to compare CCM with Pearl. Thats like sitting here saying well Kelvin Sampson had a solid class, and so did Scott Drew, CCM should've been able to too. You're talking about his recruiting and comparing it to guys that at best ae shady on the recruiting trail. Compare CCM to a similar type person....
 
#59
#59
Pearl got thrown under the bus by the UTAD. First, the UT legal counsel FAILED to alert Pearl as to the nature of the inquiry. So, he was caught completey off guard, when the UT counsel could have, and should have relayed to him the nature of the inquiry. Should Pearl have lied? no. But it was a freaking cookout. Not shoveling money under the table. The NCAA is crooked. We know of Bama players driving expensive cars, getting suits, etc., and the NCAA says, "Aw Shucks." UT (manily Hammy) spazzed out when the NCAA came calling, and basically bent over for the NCAA.

UT was a joke in bball and Pearl made it something. CCM got lucky with Stokes and the equity Pearl built. All the other recruits have been jokes. Give it 3 years and you'll see the CCM is nothing more than a run of the mill trod and plod coach with ZERO personality, and not able to live up to the 5-star facilities. Pratt pavilion and the TBA makeover are thanks to BP and his success. CCM is in over his head. There is no way in heck he even sniffs that job if UT doesn't have that black cloud hanging. Now, fans want to convince themselves that missing significant recruits doesn't matter. The NCAA thing was over the summer CCM took the job. To recruits it is ancient history. Yet CCM is still recruiting like he is at Mizzou State.
 
#62
#62
Roustabout said:
Pearl got thrown under the bus by the UTAD. First, the UT legal counsel FAILED to alert Pearl as to the nature of the inquiry. So, he was caught completey off guard, when the UT counsel could have, and should have relayed to him the nature of the inquiry. Should Pearl have lied? no. But it was a freaking cookout. Not shoveling money under the table. The NCAA is crooked. We know of Bama players driving expensive cars, getting suits, etc., and the NCAA says, "Aw Shucks." UT (manily Hammy) spazzed out when the NCAA came calling, and basically bent over for the NCAA.

UT was a joke in bball and Pearl made it something. CCM got lucky with Stokes and the equity Pearl built. All the other recruits have been jokes. Give it 3 years and you'll see the CCM is nothing more than a run of the mill trod and plod coach with ZERO personality, and not able to live up to the 5-star facilities. Pratt pavilion and the TBA makeover are thanks to BP and his success. CCM is in over his head. There is no way in heck he even sniffs that job if UT doesn't have that black cloud hanging. Now, fans want to convince themselves that missing significant recruits doesn't matter. The NCAA thing was over the summer CCM took the job. To recruits it is ancient history. Yet CCM is still recruiting like he is at Mizzou State.
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I can't wait to bump this post in a couple years.
 
#65
#65
zansdad said:
Funny how people that bash coaches and players always add this little caveat.
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I can understand though. For instance, I don't like Dooley, and I never have. Don't get me wrong, he seems like an awesome guy, but that was just a terrible hire.

On the other hand, I'll be super stoked if he ends up doing well.
 
#66
#66
Chris4Vols22 said:
I can understand though. For instance, I don't like Dooley, and I never have. Don't get me wrong, he seems like an awesome guy, but that was just a terrible hire.

On the other hand, I'll be super stoked if he ends up doing well.
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History has many tales of characters blindly causing hysteria when they don't have all the facts. "Chicken Little" comes to mind. I think it destroys credibility when people blindly bash people before all the facts are in. To be honest it took me a while to take your basketball posts seriously since I saw you on the football boards first. I had to learn to seperate your basketball opinions from your dislike of Dooley. I don't want to start a Dooley debate here, (or to try and decide what makes people think they have the experience to ID good and bad hires) only pointing out that people that make decisions before the facts are in are usually wrong, and when they're right it's more luck than intelligence. Just go back and look at the people that bashed the Martin hire. Then those same people try to mitigate the damage by saying the will "gladly eat their words if they're wrong". Wouldn't it just be better to eat those words up front?

Anyway, I know this will probably go over like a fart in church. Message boards are basically kept afloat by people complaint about stuff they have no vote in. But I think things would be much better all around if people would wait to judge. And if you can't wait, then at least stand your ground. No more "eating your words."
 
#67
#67
^
So for example, your opinion on Reese:

You feel he won't ever be more than a role player, and won't be a contributor this year. You leave it at that, and don't add, but if Moore turns out to be a stud then I'll gladly eat my words because that benefits the team....right?

So IF you turn out to be wrong, then ok you're wrong, you're not buffering it with a well if I'm wrong I'm happy type comment...right?

I see what you're saying, and that makes sense. I'm guilty of adding the little, I'll gladly eat my words, but I get your explanation and it makes sense to me.
 
#68
#68
zansdad said:
History has many tales of characters blindly causing hysteria when they don't have all the facts. "Chicken Little" comes to mind. I think it destroys credibility when people blindly bash people before all the facts are in. To be honest it took me a while to take your basketball posts seriously since I saw you on the football boards first. I had to learn to seperate your basketball opinions from your dislike of Dooley. I don't want to start a Dooley debate here, (or to try and decide what makes people think they have the experience to ID good and bad hires) only pointing out that people that make decisions before the facts are in are usually wrong, and when they're right it's more luck than intelligence. Just go back and look at the people that bashed the Martin hire. Then those same people try to mitigate the damage by saying the will "gladly eat their words if they're wrong". Wouldn't it just be better to eat those words up front?

Anyway, I know this will probably go over like a fart in church. Message boards are basically kept afloat by people complaint about stuff they have no vote in. But I think things would be much better all around if people would wait to judge. And if you can't wait, then at least stand your ground. No more "eating your words."
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I totally get what you're saying.

Yeah, I just need to stay away from the football forum:)
 
#70
#70
bleedingTNorange said:
^
So for example, your opinion on Reese:

You feel he won't ever be more than a role player, and won't be a contributor this year. You leave it at that, and don't add, but if Moore turns out to be a stud then I'll gladly eat my words because that benefits the team....right?

So IF you turn out to be wrong, then ok you're wrong, you're not buffering it with a well if I'm wrong I'm happy type comment...right?

I see what you're saying, and that makes sense. I'm guilty of adding the little, I'll gladly eat my words, but I get your explanation and it makes sense to me.
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As far as Moore goes, you asked my opinion, I gave it. I tried to be honest about what I felt his strengths and weakness were from watching that one video. I also tried to keep my comments to only that video and how it projected to his time at UT.

If you go back and read the post that started this line of discussion, http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...montre-edwards-not-juco-aa-4.html#post6627659 , you'll see that this is not and informed critique. It is a rant. It is a full-on bashing of Martin, his style of play, his recruiting, and his personality too. He is unequivical in his dismissal of Martin and the job he is doing.

I think the two are different. Giving an opinion, whether it's possitive or negative, should allow for some amount of back tracking if wrong. But if you have basically drawn a line in the sand, then you don't get to go back. For instance, if Dooley is successful, Clay Travis should not be allowed to ever jump on the bandwagon as long as Dooley is here. He is a Dooley hater, not someone that has fairly criticized Dooley, and thus he should just have to suck it up if he is wrong. No take backs.
 
#72
#72
I can live with that. A line in the sand on a message board. Sure bud. I don't get to go back because some guy who probably has orange toilet paper in his bathroom said so.
If you think Martin is the right guy, great. The bottom line is that without the Pearl fiasco, Martin would never have sniffed a job like this at this stage in his career. People are trying to make these marginal, mid-major recruits out to be more than they are.
So, i'll state it here. Martin will never be anything more than a marginal trod and plod, 'defense first' coach of which are a dime a dozen. If I'm wrong, then......well, then I'll be wrong. Oh the humanity!!:(
 
#73
#73
Roustabout said:
I can live with that. A line in the sand on a message board. Sure bud. I don't get to go back because some guy who probably has orange toilet paper in his bathroom said so.
If you think Martin is the right guy, great. The bottom line is that without the Pearl fiasco, Martin would never have sniffed a job like this at this stage in his career. People are trying to make these marginal, mid-major recruits out to be more than they are.
So, i'll state it here. Martin will never be anything more than a marginal trod and plod, 'defense first' coach of which are a dime a dozen. If I'm wrong, then......well, then I'll be wrong. Oh the humanity!!:(
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Martin was definitely unknown at the time of his hire, but I would have been shocked if he would not have gotten an offer from a major program within 5 years of coaching at Mo. State.
 
#74
#74
Roustabout said:
I can live with that. A line in the sand on a message board. Sure bud. I don't get to go back because some guy who probably has orange toilet paper in his bathroom said so.
If you think Martin is the right guy, great. The bottom line is that without the Pearl fiasco, Martin would never have sniffed a job like this at this stage in his career. People are trying to make these marginal, mid-major recruits out to be more than they are.
So, i'll state it here. Martin will never be anything more than a marginal trod and plod, 'defense first' coach of which are a dime a dozen. If I'm wrong, then......well, then I'll be wrong. Oh the humanity!!:(
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It's these type of post that I am talking about. Thanks for reinforcing my point. And BTW, so what if my toliet paper is orange?
 
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