Do you believe in an Official US Language...

Should we have an Official Language??

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#51
#51
Teddyhead said:
I realize this comment will be highly controversial but I am going to say it nonetheless.

Well in another 20 years anyone who is white and speaks English really, really better watch their back. You are so naive. The idea now is that we need to learn spanish, not that they need to learn english. Come to California and spend some time in numerous towns. Are a lot of these illegal immigrants terrible people? No. But do they give a damn about the future of this country? :no:
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First of all as has been explained before, about half of these illegals actually came here legally. Not all are Hispanic. Don't give me the crap about CA because GA has one of if not THE highest rate of illegals coming here in the country. If you have a problem with your state, move.

I wouldn't tie them caring about this country to their legal status. Legal and illegal come here for something we refer to as the American Dream....getting rich due to hard work. There is a demand by your fellow patriotic Americans for under the table labor. These people legally and illegally come here to earn money and then go back home. They care about one thing and that is providing a source of income for themselves and their families. Ask most Americans and that would be their same answer.
 
#52
#52
They don't always go back home. Illegal immigrants aren't terrible people but they certainly aren't good for everyone.
 
#53
#53
emainvol said:
that's a big assumption.
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If its a BIG ASSUMPTION, then why have they replaced the American flag with their Mexican flag?? Is this Mexico of the US?? Why have they flown the Mexican flag over the American flag and turned the American flag upside down?? Alot of these people seem to think that this is their land and not the ours. How many people have you met of a construction site that were Hispanic and could speak English "well"?? I have yet to meet one single Hispanic that could speak English "well" on one of those job sites, unless it was someone born here in the US that was a translator.
 
#54
#54
g8terh8ter_eric said:
If its a BIG ASSUMPTION, then why have they replaced the American flag with their Mexican flag?? Is this Mexico of the US?? Why have they flown the Mexican flag over the American flag and turned the American flag upside down?? Alot of these people seem to think that this is their land and not the ours. How many people have you met of a construction site that were Hispanic and could speak English "well"?? I have yet to meet one single Hispanic that could speak English "well" on one of those job sites, unless it was someone born here in the US that was a translator.
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Well considering the nation they are citizens of, is it too far fetched to have them still proudly wave the flag of their home origins? After all, they are not Americans or American citizens. Why should they wave the flag of the nation they are in? Would you wave the French flag proudly on your next trip to Paris?

So you're meeting illegals on construction sites? Are you turning them and their employers in for breaking laws?

As for those who do think the southwest is their land, considering a good portion of this was conquered for the same concept as "Lebensraum" maybe those few probably think they have a legitimate gripe. But considering only a fraction are vocalizing this and not all of these are Mexicans who would have that claim, I think this is a lousy argument to even use.
 
#55
#55
CSpindizzy said:
Well considering the nation they are citizens of, is it too far fetched to have them still proudly wave the flag of their home origins? After all, they are not Americans or American citizens. Why should they wave the flag of the nation they are in? Would you wave the French flag proudly on your next trip to Paris?

So you're meeting illegals on construction sites? Are you turning them and their employers in for breaking laws?

As for those who do think the southwest is their land, considering a good portion of this was conquered for the same concept as "Lebensraum" maybe those few probably think they have a legitimate gripe. But considering only a fraction are vocalizing this and not all of these are Mexicans who would have that claim, I think this is a lousy argument to even use.
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:good!:. Exactly, you think that if you tried to get into France illegally that they would allow it?? No they would deport your sorry butt on your expense. Also do you think they would allow their flag to be insulted like that?? Breaking the law is breaking the law and just because you have a corrupt country doesn't mean you come over here illegally and live to get away from it. They need to have a Revolution like we did and get their Independence. People lean WAY too much on this country, but yet curse it when it tries to tell you to do things on your own. Its also not the smart people coming up here from Mexico, its the ignorant Indians. Wages are being driven down. I mean why would you pay an American minimum wage when you can pay an illegal $4.00 per hour. Also, if they get amnesty then the federal labor laws then apply to them and you think that they are all getting payed minimum wageas of right now?? Plus, if you think once they become citizens they will want the same pay they have now?? Nope, they will ALL want pay raises and they can't even speak English. So guess what's going to happen, can you say Union?? So then paying Americans who know English the same wage starts to make more sense to the people who are just trying to make a buck. All the problem is based on making money, but yet if they all become citizens then that margin is no longer gonna be there.
 
#56
#56
g8terh8ter_eric said:
If its a BIG ASSUMPTION, then why have they replaced the American flag with their Mexican flag?? Is this Mexico of the US?? Why have they flown the Mexican flag over the American flag and turned the American flag upside down?? Alot of these people seem to think that this is their land and not the ours. How many people have you met of a construction site that were Hispanic and could speak English "well"?? I have yet to meet one single Hispanic that could speak English "well" on one of those job sites, unless it was someone born here in the US that was a translator.
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1. Sorry, must have missed that one. I forgot about that ever growing problem of Mexicans scaling the flag poles at city hall to replace the American flag.

2. Met a group of 6 guys from Mexico last week at a bar, had some drinks with them. They all worked construction and spoke English quite well. And not to rain on your parade, but they even had a designated driver to take them home.
 
#57
#57
Again, I hate to break it to you but people go to other nations all the time and display flags of their home countries with no problem. While they may get some hated looks from the locals, displaying a flag of home origins is not a crime.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. And these people would have been punished the same way people who speed or run stop signs are punished. So if you're saying this bill would have been amnesty you clearly haven't bothered reading it. If this somehow IS amnesty then I guess thousands of people who get traffic violations are getting amnesty despite having to pay fines, etc.

Yes wages are depressed. But why blame the illegals for that? Who is paying the depressed wages and thus breaking the laws? American citizens. Americans are the ones breaking the laws and the ones depressing wages on their fellow citizens. But no one is crying to round them up and throw them all in jail.
 
#58
#58
CSpindizzy said:
Again, I hate to break it to you but people go to other nations all the time and display flags of their home countries with no problem. While they may get some hated looks from the locals, displaying a flag of home origins is not a crime.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. And these people would have been punished the same way people who speed or run stop signs are punished. So if you're saying this bill would have been amnesty you clearly haven't bothered reading it. If this somehow IS amnesty then I guess thousands of people who get traffic violations are getting amnesty despite having to pay fines, etc.

Yes wages are depressed. But why blame the illegals for that? Who is paying the depressed wages and thus breaking the laws? American citizens. Americans are the ones breaking the laws and the ones depressing wages on their fellow citizens. But no one is crying to round them up and throw them all in jail.
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I honestly think that the people who hire them deserve to goto jail as much if not more than the illegals. They are the reason they are here. The bill also states that they have to go home and re-apply for a new visa after seven years. Do you honestly think they will do that?? It also states that it would provide all of those that were here before January 1 of this year a permanent work-visa (z-visa). Do you think that those who got here after January 1 of this year will let the government know that so they can send them home?? This bill is extremely flawed even though it has some good points, but had we enforced the laws up to this point and protected our borders the right way this wouldn't be a problem.
 
#59
#59
If they want to be citizens that is what they have to do in addition to paying a fine. If they do not take this option then all other laws on the books and the ones added in this bill apply. So basically it does not give amnesty to 12-20 million people. It gives the 12-20 million with clean records the ABILITY to file. If they do not take that route, everything is as it has been with some modifications. Since the bill added more means to go after those NOT choosing the citizenship route, where is the evil in that?

You see that is where people get this confused. Instead of reading this fully many relied on talk radio and other assorted pundits to explain this with their own political bias inserted. Had people read this they would know that first of all, not every one of the illegals wants to be citizens. But with this bill there are two options:

1)Become a citizen but only after showing clean history, date of entry, no crimes, fine paid, etc. Not all will take this route and not all will even qualify.

2)Remain illegal status - most will get dumped into this class. Those who will not apply for citizenship are still classified as illegal and thus will be subject to either the laws on the books or laws being updated from this bill. This bill gives agencies more leeway, money, resources, and manpower to go after this group.

So essentially you get more lockdown on the borders, more prosecution of Americans defrauding the government and taxpayers, options for those with clean backgrounds - either we 'punish' you by dumping you across the border OR you can face a stiffer punishment and become a legal productive citizen.

I love the 'enforce the laws currently on the books' route. Track down some illegals, load them on a bus, and dump them at the border. If THAT is not amnesty I don't know what is. Since they'll have fraudulent ID there's little effective way to document those. So we spend millions tracking them down and dumping them at the border only to see them come back later. Gotta hand it to the "secure the border first" crowd. That sounds like the best use of time and money I've ever seen.
 
#60
#60
CSpindizzy said:
If they want to be citizens that is what they have to do in addition to paying a fine. If they do not take this option then all other laws on the books and the ones added in this bill apply. So basically it does not give amnesty to 12-20 million people. It gives the 12-20 million with clean records the ABILITY to file. If they do not take that route, everything is as it has been with some modifications. Since the bill added more means to go after those NOT choosing the citizenship route, where is the evil in that?

You see that is where people get this confused. Instead of reading this fully many relied on talk radio and other assorted pundits to explain this with their own political bias inserted. Had people read this they would know that first of all, not every one of the illegals wants to be citizens. But with this bill there are two options:

1)Become a citizen but only after showing clean history, date of entry, no crimes, fine paid, etc. Not all will take this route and not all will even qualify.

2)Remain illegal status - most will get dumped into this class. Those who will not apply for citizenship are still classified as illegal and thus will be subject to either the laws on the books or laws being updated from this bill. This bill gives agencies more leeway, money, resources, and manpower to go after this group.

So essentially you get more lockdown on the borders, more prosecution of Americans defrauding the government and taxpayers, options for those with clean backgrounds - either we 'punish' you by dumping you across the border OR you can face a stiffer punishment and become a legal productive citizen.

I love the 'enforce the laws currently on the books' route. Track down some illegals, load them on a bus, and dump them at the border. If THAT is not amnesty I don't know what is. Since they'll have fraudulent ID there's little effective way to document those. So we spend millions tracking them down and dumping them at the border only to see them come back later. Gotta hand it to the "secure the border first" crowd. That sounds like the best use of time and money I've ever seen.
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Here's a few loopholes in the bill that I found....

U.S. Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican - ALABAMA

It also looks like we already have most of these law as on the books right now...

Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

If they didn't enforce these up till now and every other one, then what makes you believe they will now?? Because they tell you they will???
 
#61
#61
Odd thing about the 'loopholes' is a lack of pointing out where they are. It's easy to make a claim but harder to show where they are in this bill. When Sessions points those out, I will believe him. Again, this is proof of my point. Claims were tossed out and people believed those claims but still no specifics as to proof of those claims.

As to most being on the books now, that is true. But there are loopholes that have been discovered in a 25 year period. This bill addressed 25 years of beta testing of loopholes by lawyers. So there is a focus on existing laws but closing loopholes.
 
#62
#62
CSpindizzy said:
Odd thing about the 'loopholes' is a lack of pointing out where they are. It's easy to make a claim but harder to show where they are in this bill. When Sessions points those out, I will believe him. Again, this is proof of my point. Claims were tossed out and people believed those claims but still no specifics as to proof of those claims.

As to most being on the books now, that is true. But there are loopholes that have been discovered in a 25 year period. This bill addressed 25 years of beta testing of loopholes by lawyers. So there is a focus on existing laws but closing loopholes.
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How about just giving our men and women the chance to secure our borders the right way and the common sense way?? That's too easy though, and we all know that anything easy is way too complicated to do for this government.
 
#63
#63
g8terh8ter_eric said:
How about just giving our men and women the chance to secure our borders the right way and the common sense way?? That's too easy though, and we all know that anything easy is way too complicated to do for this government.
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Tell me what the right and common sense way is....
 
#64
#64
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Funny you should say that because you were defending a bill that would naturalize 12-20 million or more people that don't want to learn English in the first place and don't want to assimilate. So that's not a valid statement with respect to the rest of the post.
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Assimilition will occur regardless of whether an immigrant wants it to. However, it takes a generation or two. Would you like to reverse the clock a little and kick out all the Italians and Germans, too?

If you want to conduct your business in English, then by all means do so. If someone else wants to conduct theirs in Spanish, Arabic, French, German, Russian, Tagalog, Mandarin, or Swahili, then let them exercise that right. I also have no problem with elected officials offering services in alternate languages. If you do have a problem with your elected officials, then vote for someone else.
 
#65
#65
g8terh8ter_eric said:
How about just giving our men and women the chance to secure our borders the right way and the common sense way?? That's too easy though, and we all know that anything easy is way too complicated to do for this government.
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Which way would that be?
 
#67
#67
CSpindizzy said:
I've been waiting all day for that answer....crickets are chirping....
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Sorry bro, just got home. My point is, why have more legislation if what we had on the books isn't being enforced now anyways?? I mean come on, the IRS enforces more of its laws than the useless organization of Homeland Security. These people should be able to do their jobs without having to worry about going to jail because they tried to stop someone from crossing the border. If you think this bill would have stopped that from happening you are naive, because every civil rights group from Maine to California would go after Border Security for violating "human rights".
 
#68
#68
You can pass laws all day long. But if you do not have the infrastructure to enforce those laws how can you expect to accomplish anything? If the problem is much bigger than the amount of resources you need to bring in more resources.

You have to admit that laws have loopholes, either intentional or those that are poked through by lawyers. After the 86 bill and any other immigration bill people have found the holes. Just as we did after 9/11 with terrorism and security laws we need to look at what laws work, what do not, or what ones just need updating or patched for loopholes. You can build a wall around this entire country but when half of the illegals are here through visas and just never bothering to return what good is the wall or tighter security? If they are allowed in here through legal means and stay past their allotted time, what good will a wall along the Mexican border do?

If you ever come to Atlanta, drive in the Chamblee and Doraville areas. You have illegals from Eastern Europe and the Far East all over the place. What good does placing the attention to the southern border do to stop them? Cut the Mexicans off but still allow Americans to get away with hiring cheap labor the illegals will just come from other nations. The demand will still be there and all you did was stop one leak and ignore another one altogether.
 
#69
#69
CSpindizzy said:
You can pass laws all day long. But if you do not have the infrastructure to enforce those laws how can you expect to accomplish anything? If the problem is much bigger than the amount of resources you need to bring in more resources.

You have to admit that laws have loopholes, either intentional or those that are poked through by lawyers. After the 86 bill and any other immigration bill people have found the holes. Just as we did after 9/11 with terrorism and security laws we need to look at what laws work, what do not, or what ones just need updating or patched for loopholes. You can build a wall around this entire country but when half of the illegals are here through visas and just never bothering to return what good is the wall or tighter security? If they are allowed in here through legal means and stay past their allotted time, what good will a wall along the Mexican border do?

If you ever come to Atlanta, drive in the Chamblee and Doraville areas. You have illegals from Eastern Europe and the Far East all over the place. What good does placing the attention to the southern border do to stop them? Cut the Mexicans off but still allow Americans to get away with hiring cheap labor the illegals will just come from other nations. The demand will still be there and all you did was stop one leak and ignore another one altogether.
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Ok, so just pass legislation to incarcerate those businesses who hire them. We already have laws on immigration so we don't need more. The reason you focus on the southern border is Hispanics make up around 70-80% of all illegal immigrants. Also, if you can get rid of the civil rights groups then Washington wouldn't even have to be involved. This is one of the reasons I believe that even if they passed a reform bill they won't do anything anyways to improve things.

WorldNetDaily: 'No comment' on border agents, Snow says
 
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