Does Chandler really cut it as a PG

#1
JoAllan

JoAllan

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#1
Below is some information to help you decide. I have heard “he is a 5 star he should be way better”, “he isn’t panning out”, and all kinds of (what seems to me - but you look and decide) garbage. Below I’ll put the top 10 point guards of this past cycle and their stats. I’ll also put the top 2 point guards of the past few years (when I can - a couple went pro, 1 didn’t play). I didn’t list Cunningham - no real need. We know he is much better, was the overall #1 player (and a 6-8 pg).

KENNEDY CHANDLER, Tennessee, #1 pg, 13.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.8 to, 44%, 31.7 3pt%

JD Davison, Bama, #3 pg - 8.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4 assists, .8 steals, 2.7 to, 48%, 31.7 3pt %,

TyTy Washington, KY, #4 pg - 12.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.7 to, 47.7%, 34.6 3pt %,

Nolan Hickman, Gonzaga, #5 pg - 6.6 points, 1.8 rebounds, 1.7 assists, .7 steals, .8 to, 46.8%, 35.3 3pt %,

Tyrese Hunter, Iowa ST, #6 pg, 10.8 points, 3.3 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 1.9 steals, 3.3 to, 39.3%, 21.3 3pt %,

Frankie Collins, Michigan, #7 pg, 2.8 points, 1.6 rebounds, 1.7 assists, .4 steals, 1.3 to, 39.6%, 15.4 3pt %,

Daeshun Ruffin, Mississippi, #8 pg, 12.6 points, 1.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 2.6 to, 37.3%, 21.6 3pt%

Jaden Akins, Mich ST, #9 pg, 3.7 points, 2.5 rebounds, .6 assists, .8 steals, .7 to, 41.8%, 33.3 3pt%,

Rahsool Diggins, Connecticut, #10 pg, 7 total points, 0 rebounds, 3 total assists, 4 total to, 30%, 33% 3pt% (1 of 3)


Last season: (#1pg was #1 overall player and 6ft 8 - but yea he was definitely better)

Caleb love, UNC, #2 pg, 10.5 points, 2.6 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 3.1 to, 31.6%, 26.6 3pt%

Jeremy Roach, Duke, #4pg, 8.7 points, 2.2 rebounds, 2.8 assists, .8 steals, 45%, 31 3pt %

2019:

Nico Mannion, Arizona, #1pg, 14 points, 2.5 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 1.2 steals, 2.6 to, 39%, 32.7 3pt %

Tre Mann, Florida, #2pg, 5.3 points, 1.9 rebounds, .7 assists, .7 steals, 1.1 to, 36%, 27 3pt%

2018: Garland was 2 but mostly quit

Ashton Hagans, KY, #1 pg, 7.7 points, 2.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 2.5 to, 46%, 27 3pt %

Tre Jones, Duke, #3pg, 9.4 points, 3.8 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 1.9 steals, 1.5 to, 41%, 26 3pt%


Looks to me he is AT LEAST as good as any of these, and better than most. Chandler is probably better than any of the other top pg’s this season (tyty and Ruffin are probably the closest).

But hey what do I know……..he not good……stats lie.
 
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#6
#6
walkenvol said:
Shoot solid free throws and eliminate the lazy passes that led to turn overs that were happening too often mid season and he’s done a better job of both as of late. I think he’s as good as we could have expected for a guy his size.
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Despite that he’s still a very good PG even as a freshman. That’s why in the other thread I said he has the biggest influence on our ceiling in the tournament. He starts shooting at a higher clip and cuts down on those TOs and we could be elite 8 or better good even getting the same level of play from everyone else. He is just a freshman but he is also the most integral player on our offense.
 
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#9
#9
One of Chandler's strengths is his passing ability once he penetrates the defense, we saw some of that earlier in the season against much weaker opposition, however as the season progressed our half court game has deteriorated below SEC minimums and the strength of Tennessee's offense is not down low and not on the baseline. Chandler's shooting is problematic like the rest of the team's woes, particularly during our regular scoring droughts. Chandler has improved in spurts, but not anywhere near what was expected, primarily with the hands of stone he is trying to feed the ball to and a non existent half court game that point guards usually excel in.

Barnes less that stellar seasons with consensus first round talent is well written, perhaps the biggest flame out was that 2006-2007 season at Texas with Durant and two McDonald's All American guards, managed a third place spot in the Big 12, exited the NCAA in the second round, even lost to Tennessee in overtime in Knoxville. Durant was selected as the number two pick behind Greg Oden and is still lighting it up on any given night for the Nets.

Chandler played well in the last two minutes of the Vanderbilt game, most of the other minutes were quite pedestrian by the numbers.
 
#10
#10
cncchris33 said:
I let my unfiltered curiosity venture into the game thread last night and put them on blast. A subtle reminder of why I try and steer clear of those threads.
Click to expand...

I did too

I can only guess folks think 5* freshman PG’s should be averaging 20+………..and that it’s just a given.

That’s exactly why I put together this list/info. I was thinking Chandlers stats look real good “to me” (of corse his free shooting could be better and hopefully he can keep improving everywhere). But dang his numbers are freakin solid.

If one didn’t know better one could come away from a thread thinking Tyty averages a double double and that JD is lights out…….while Chandler is…..meh. However in reality Chandlers numbers meets or exceeds theirs…..at basically everything.
 
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#11
#11
JoAllan said:
I did too

I can only guess folks think 5* freshman PG’s should be averaging 20+………..and that it’s just a given.

That’s exactly why I put together this list/info. I was thinking Chandlers stats look real good “to me” (of corse his free shooting could be better and hopefully he can keep improving everywhere). But dang his numbers are freakin solid.

If one didn’t know better one could come away from a thread thinking Tyty averages a double double and that JD is lights out…….while Chandler is…..meh. However in reality Chandlers numbers meets or exceeds theirs…..at basically everything.
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The FT lapses of focus and concentration are the one legitimate complaint. He's even cut back on the lazy passes, lately. Everything else is pretty elite at the highest level of college basketball as a freshman.
 
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#12
#12
The classic point guard metric is assist to turnover ratio, but that seems to be outdated in an era of point guards that can average 25+PPG . I read this article a few weeks ago, and it posits a new way of looking at the point guard.

The formula is: PlayRtg = USG*(PPG+2.26*APG-TPG)/(FGA+0.44*FTA+APG+TPG) where USG = Usage Rate, APG = Assists Per Game, PPG = Points Per Game, TPG = Turnovers Per Game, FGA = Field Goal Attempts Per Game, FTA = Free Throw Attempts Per Game

It’s a model from 2012 that judges “playmaking ability” using this formula. It’s not perfect, but beats apg/to as a single variable.

This model would still put KC at the top of the crop. He’s a great college PG.
 
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#13
#13
This season the top scoring true freshman is Ray’Sean Taylor from SIU Taylorsville (??). He scores 17.6 per 83rd in the nation (with more to’s than assists).

Holmgren is scoring just over 14 per
Banchero is scoring 17 even.
Emoni Bates is scoring 10.4.
Jabari Smith 15.2

points definitely isn’t everything……but it’s not a given that the top 5 star freshman will score 20 per…….not at all, especially PG’s.
 
#18
#18
Stoerner Fumbles said:
The classic point guard metric is assist to turnover ratio, but that seems to be outdated in an era of point guards that can average 25+PPG . I read this article a few weeks ago, and it posits a new way of looking at the point guard.

The formula is: PlayRtg = USG*(PPG+2.26*APG-TPG)/(FGA+0.44*FTA+APG+TPG) where USG = Usage Rate, APG = Assists Per Game, PPG = Points Per Game, TPG = Turnovers Per Game, FGA = Field Goal Attempts Per Game, FTA = Free Throw Attempts Per Game

It’s a model from 2012 that judges “playmaking ability” using this formula. It’s not perfect, but beats apg/to as a single variable.

This model would still put KC at the top of the crop. He’s a great college PG.
Click to expand...

He's good, but great? I wouldn't give him that label yet.
 
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#19
#19
volsack7 said:
I hope this is rhetorical. Chandler is fantastic, and we should be rejoicing as TN fans to have the opportunity to watch him as one of ours.
(I feel this way about many of our players.)
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It’s not

There are Tennessee fans who think he’s just not that good. Who “think” he was a 5* and “should” be so much better or be doing so much more (not just on here).

I seriously believe “some” folks think all or most top 10 or so 5 star freshman should produce like Cunningham did.
 
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#20
#20
volsack7 said:
I hope this is rhetorical. Chandler is fantastic, and we should be rejoicing as TN fans to have the opportunity to watch him as one of ours.
(I feel this way about many of our players.)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, many of our fans are basketball illiterate and believe that KC isn't cutting it. Scour the game threads for proof of that.

Honestly, ZZ is Chandler's biggest public enemy in terms of perception. If ZZ didn't exist on this team, people would likely appreciate KC more. But because ZZ is such an easy kid to root for and has overachieved by such a wide margin, many fan's natural reaction is to then hold KC to a higher standard because he isn't outperforming ZZ by a margin proportionate to their recruiting rankings. In other words, they believe, perhaps even subconsciously, that if ZZ can average 11 points in SEC play as a kid with zero D1 offers a year ago, then the #1 PG in the country ought to look like Ja Morant by comparison.
 
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#21
#21
cncchris33 said:
Unfortunately, many of our fans are basketball illiterate and believe that KC isn't cutting it. Scour the game threads for proof of that.

Honestly, ZZ is Chandler's biggest public enemy in terms of perception. If ZZ didn't exist on this team, people would likely appreciate KC more. But because ZZ is such an easy kid to root for and has overachieved by such a wide margin, many fan's natural reaction is to then hold KC to a higher standard because he isn't outperforming ZZ by a margin proportionate to their recruiting rankings. In other words, they believe, perhaps even subconsciously, that if ZZ can average 11 points in SEC play as a kid with zero D1 offers a year ago, then the #1 PG in the country ought to look like Ja Morant by comparison.
Click to expand...

agree

I also believe most are comparing to Morant in his “second” season as well.
 
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#24
#24
I pointed out in the game thread last night that KC is #2 in the nation in assists among freshmen and a top 20 scorer. If you filter out the one bid league freshmen he's top 10. Someone told me he hadn't had any big games and I pointed out that vs Miss State in the prior game he had 18 points on 8-13 shooting, with 5 freaking steals, which is an incredible number. They then argued that he had never taken over a game late to help seal a win, right as he went on his one man 6-0 spurt to turn a close game into a double digit lead.

He's an NBA level PG and while I'd love to have him back, there's nothing he can do in college next year that would make him any better off than going to the NBA next year and getting paid to learn the system his NBA team wants him to run.
 
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