Don't criticize Islam.

[dickens821]

You do understand that the genocide in Bosnia was an attempt, by Christian Serbs, to eliminate Bosnian Muslims, right?

There are just as many radical Christians as radical Muslims. However, the conditions in many Western Christian nations have yet to deteriorate to those conditions that are the status quo in most Arab and African nations (which, coincidentally, have a much higher rate of Muslims). The conditions are fostering the violence...NOT THE RELIGION!

That is true. One of my neighbors is originally from Bosnia (was a refugee) and is a Muslim. Great guy.

 

[jbakes]

a murdering psychopath (akin to Hitler), and his book is filled with proven historical errors, and his followers commit to either convert or destroy those that disbelieve the crap in the Koran, I have nothing bad to say about Islam.

 

[rjd970]

There are just as many radical Christians as radical Muslims. However, the conditions in many Western Christian nations have yet to deteriorate to those conditions that are the status quo in most Arab and African nations (which, coincidentally, have a much higher rate of Muslims). The conditions are fostering the violence...NOT THE RELIGION!

I disagree, especially with your last sentence as it applies to Islam. Open up a Qur'an or the Hadith and on just about every page there is some sort of admonishment of non-muslims or instruction to kill them. Then in great detail, it goes into the pleasures that await martyrs and defenders of Islam in heaven, complete with virgins and rivers of honey.

I understand that conditions or lack of education may stoke some of these fires, but the primary cause here is specifically religion. If it is conditions, then you have to answer why there aren't any Bhuddist suicide bombers in Tibet. They have undergone socio-political injustices and outright violence at the hands of the Chinese for far longer and on a bigger scale than any Palestinian has. The primary difference here with how they react lies with the specific beliefs of Bhuddists vs. those of Muslims.

Or for that matter, look at the Christian Palenstinians. Here we have almost the perfectly controlled scientific experiment. Take the same people, speaking the same language, and living in the same horrible conditions....now give them different religious beliefs and see how they react. The problem of terrorism in the ME is most definitely a theocratic one, with socio-economic conditions being a symptom, not the cause.

 

[rjd970]

While I think all organized religion is a sham, Islam presents a uniqe and bigger threat to society than most. We have a substantial group of believers that are stuck in 7th century thinking and armed with 21st century weapons. One of the major problems here is the disconnect between education and fantasy thinking. The 911 hijackers were mostly college educated, yet still believed they were going to paradise for what they did. The dangerous part about Islam is a person can be sufficiently educated enough to build an atomic bomb, yet still believe in the metaphysics of martyrdom.

 

[emainvol]

You do understand that the genocide in Bosnia was an attempt, by Christian Serbs, to eliminate Bosnian Muslims, right?

There are just as many radical Christians as radical Muslims. However, the conditions in many Western Christian nations have yet to deteriorate to those conditions that are the status quo in most Arab and African nations (which, coincidentally, have a much higher rate of Muslims). The conditions are fostering the violence...NOT THE RELIGION!

This doesn't happen terribly often, but I agree completely with your assessment. Good post.

 

[emainvol]

I also think that if I started talking crap about Christianity to a lot of your faces, I would end up with at least one black eye.

 

[emainvol]

When was the last time the Westboro clan ran a plane into a building?

Irrelevant.

 

[Lexvol]

It is like the gun control issue really....you know The whole "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun" theory.

It isn't religion. It is what idiots do with it that is the problem.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I also think that if I started talking crap about Christianity to a lot of your faces, I would end up with at least one black eye.

do it in the Tebow's eye black thread and you might get slapped several times.

 

[JZVOL]

I also think that if I started talking crap about Christianity to a lot of your faces, I would end up with at least one black eye.

Yes, and I would apologize after but I have an anger issue at times.

 

[emainvol]

It is like the gun control issue really....you know The whole "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun" theory.

It isn't religion. It is what idiots do with it that is the problem.

Absolutely. I have been acquainted with quite a few Muslims in my life, and they are all good people. Extremists are the exception, not the rule.

 

[dickens821]

Irrelevant.

He was comparing one group of extremists (who have killed, and will again) to another group who, while annoying, have not killed anyone. If he had compared the violent Muslims to a group of Christians that had been violent I would have been fine with it (such as the Serbs). The comparison was bad.

 

[gsvol]

Absolutely. I have been acquainted with quite a few Muslims in my life, and they are all good people. Extremists are the exception, not the rule.

But the UN resolution is like going into a gay bar, dropping trou and bending over and grabbing your ankles to prove you aren't homophobic.

The UN resolution would be like saying people couldn't say anything that offended the Nazi party in the 1930s.

Nothing in the world encourages tyrants more that appeasement.

 

[therealUT]

I disagree, especially with your last sentence as it applies to Islam. Open up a Qur'an or the Hadith and on just about every page there is some sort of admonishment of non-muslims or instruction to kill them. Then in great detail, it goes into the pleasures that await martyrs and defenders of Islam in heaven, complete with virgins and rivers of honey.

I understand that conditions or lack of education may stoke some of these fires, but the primary cause here is specifically religion. If it is conditions, then you have to answer why there aren't any Bhuddist suicide bombers in Tibet. They have undergone socio-political injustices and outright violence at the hands of the Chinese for far longer and on a bigger scale than any Palestinian has. The primary difference here with how they react lies with the specific beliefs of Bhuddists vs. those of Muslims.

Or for that matter, look at the Christian Palenstinians. Here we have almost the perfectly controlled scientific experiment. Take the same people, speaking the same language, and living in the same horrible conditions....now give them different religious beliefs and see how they react. The problem of terrorism in the ME is most definitely a theocratic one, with socio-economic conditions being a symptom, not the cause.

I have read the Koran (not the Hadith) and I most certainly did not think it any harsher than the Torah...or the Book of Joshua.

Your theory fails because the power players among those populations, i.e. the sparks to the firestorms, are preaching with the perception that they are speaking for Islam (Imams, Ayatollahs, etc.). They are neither inspiring nor empowering the non-Muslim members of their community to take action. That would ruin their perception of divine authority, which they so desperately need to maintain amongst a tragically ignorant population.

 

[WA_Vol]

Don't let Bush read this, he will start putting people in jail over here, in his mind all U.N. resolutions must be enforced, regardless of cost.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Don't let Bush read this, he will start putting people in jail over here, in his mind all U.N. resolutions must be enforced, regardless of cost.

he should certainly enforce the ones we sponsor.

 

[rjd970]

I have read the Koran (not the Hadith) and I most certainly did not think it any harsher than the Torah...or the Book of Joshua.

Your theory fails because the power players among those populations, i.e. the sparks to the firestorms, are preaching with the perception that they are speaking for Islam (Imams, Ayatollahs, etc.). They are neither inspiring nor empowering the non-Muslim members of their community to take action. That would ruin their perception of divine authority, which they so desperately need to maintain amongst a tragically ignorant population.

If you have really read the Qu'ran, I have no clue how you cannot come to the conclusion that its central message is to kill or subjugate all non-believers and infidels. Sure it has some passages of peace, compassion, and praise. But they are not numerous enough to offset the other stuff.

Likewise, these Imams that claim to speak for Islam can find easy justification on just about every page for defending Islam violently. My theory absolutely does not fail. Consider this: How easy would it be for a Bhuddist monk to justify suicide bombing? Now consider how easy it is for a Imam to justify that same action within the purview of Islam.

We are in two completely different theological universes here.

 

[therealUT]

If you have really read the Qu'ran, I have no clue how you cannot come to the conclusion that its central message is to kill or subjugate all non-believers and infidels. Sure it has some passages of peace, compassion, and praise. But they are not numerous enough to offset the other stuff.

Likewise, these Imams that claim to speak for Islam can find easy justification on just about every page for defending Islam violently. My theory absolutely does not fail. Consider this: How easy would it be for a Bhuddist monk to justify suicide bombing? Now consider how easy it is for a Imam to justify that same action within the purview of Islam.

We are in two completely different theological universes here.

The justification for violence against non-believers far outweighs everything else in the Torah, as well.

As for your argument concerning Buddhism, I have decided to give it apply the same percentage that depicts how many Buddhists there are to the amount of thought I put into the relative merits of Buddhism in any discussion concerning major religions of the world (about 6%)...

 

[rjd970]

The justification for violence against non-believers far outweighs everything else in the Torah, as well.

Even with how disgusting much of the OT is (including the Pentateuch), it is still not on par with what the Qur'an teaches. Exactly how many Jewish suicide bombers or terrorists do we hear about? How many Rabbi's are out preaching to kill Gentiles?

A gallup poll from a few years ago (I have since lost the link) states that around 20% of Turkish Muslims believe suicide terrorism is justifiable at least some of the time in defense of Islam. This is Turkey, one of the more democratic and developed Muslim country's. The numbers for Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Egypt were disgusting (upwards of 80% in some cases).

I still contend this is a belief problem, and anyone who says Islam is - fundamentally - a religion of peace is doing the same buffet style of picking and choosing beliefs in order to justify their faith that other believers do. "Islam is Peace" may sound nice and be politically correct in today's society, but it simply isn't reality.

As for your argument concerning Buddhism, I have decided to give it apply the same percentage that depicts how many Buddhists there are to the amount of thought I put into the relative merits of Buddhism in any discussion concerning major religions of the world (about 6%)...

This explains a lot of why you think my argument has no merit.

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

I also think that if I started talking crap about Christianity to a lot of your faces, I would end up with at least one black eye.

Would you do the Christian thing, and turn the other cheek? lol:

 

[gsvol]

The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Persia and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost.
(Spain was under the rule of Islam for almost 800 years.)

Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.

Half of the Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.

The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.

Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia.

The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.

Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.

These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."

History of Islamic genocide and slavery.

 

[emainvol]

Would you do the Christian thing, and turn the other cheek? lol:

I am a bigger fan of evolutionary theory, I think that means I would just throw feces at them.

 

[therealUT]

The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Persia and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost.
(Spain was under the rule of Islam for almost 800 years.)

Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.

Half of the Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.

The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.

Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia.

The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.

Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.

These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."

History of Islamic genocide and slavery.

Feel free to read up on the political history of Judaism, too. Last time I checked, the Hebrews most definitely wiped out whole states in Judea, to include women and children. The magnitude matters not. It is the principle and one cannot argue that the principles expressed in the Torah and early history of Judaism are materially distinct from those expressed and observed in the early stages of Islam.

 

[emainvol]

The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Persia and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost.
(Spain was under the rule of Islam for almost 800 years.)

Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.

Half of the Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.

The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.

Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia.

The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.

Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.

These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."

History of Islamic genocide and slavery.

So how many of those were killed because of imperialism rather than religious beliefs? I be willing to bet leaders who were of Christian faith killed at least that many.

 

[emainvol]

Feel free to read up on the political history of Judaism, too. Last time I checked, the Hebrews most definitely wiped out whole states in Judea, to include women and children. The magnitude matters not. It is the principle and one cannot argue that the principles expressed in the Torah and early history of Judaism are materially distinct of those expressed and observed in the early stages of Islam.

A valid point as well.