Dooley/ Kiiffin both make the Top 10 Worst Coaches of the BCS era

#51
#51
I agree with this but they both had a better record n year 1 than cbj. So why most vn worships johns he has proven less on the football so vols fans should be cautious before naming their kid after him.

On a good note happy mem weekend vets

Semper fi..
 
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#53
#53
chatt-townVOL said:
I hate to be this guy..... but anyone who acts like they weren't excited about the Kiffin hire is only lying to themselves.

It was an awful hire, but I'll be the first to admit I didn't think that at the time.
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I was excited because of the staff he put together then bb signed n then we went 7n5 but the bowl game n ucla made me slow down on this guy. Then he f us..

Guilty
 
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#54
#54
ntxVOL said:
I am most surprised that neither is in the #1 spot.
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I second that emotion to quote an old Motown song. I would rank Dooley as number one on any list because his arrogance ruined longtime relationship with HS, alumni, and recruits. He believed his own sheet but I still am amazed anyone in a profession as high profile as college coaching could be that incompetent and maybe the worst recruiter ever in the SEC.
 
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#55
#55
I don't think he was the worst recruiter in the history of the SEC...Dinardo and Hallman et al would be in a lengthy line in front of him...in hindsight,with the knowledge of his disastrous relationships with high school coaches in hand, I'd say the problem with his classes hinged on his Bobby Beathard method of trading first round picks for lower level gems...because this isn't the NFL!!! :dance:
 
#56
#56
CDD is the worst. anyone who ranks zook, chizik, and kiffin below CDD is suffering from a lack of synapses.

speaking of zook, it was pointed out here that his record at UF was identical to CBJs record at cincy. and it lands him in first place on someone's worst list.

uh-oh
 
#57
#57
tm3 said:
CDD is the worst. anyone who ranks zook, chizik, and kiffin below CDD is suffering from a lack of synapses.

speaking of zook, it was pointed out here that his record at UF was identical to CBJs record at cincy. and it lands him in first place on someone's worst list.

uh-oh
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Key words "Florida"..."Cincy"...'s ok. :eek:k:
 
#58
#58
chatt-townVOL said:
I hate to be this guy..... but anyone who acts like they weren't excited about the Kiffin hire is only lying to themselves.

It was an awful hire, but I'll be the first to admit I didn't think that at the time.
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I wasn't excited by the Kiffin hire.... Confused? Yes. Hopeful? Yes. Excited? Nah.
 
#59
#59
tm3 said:
CDD is the worst. anyone who ranks zook, chizik, and kiffin below CDD is suffering from a lack of synapses.

speaking of zook, it was pointed out here that his record at UF was identical to CBJs record at cincy. and it lands him in first place on someone's worst list.

uh-oh
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Zook was 23-16 at Florida in 3 years, no losing seasons, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finish in the East. Did he underperform at Florida? Yes. Does he belong anywhere near the top 10, much less #1? Hell no. Who authored this list, some jilted Florida fan longing for the Spurrier glory years? Ridiculous.
 
#61
#61
92volalum said:
I agree with this but they both had a better record n year 1 than cbj. So why most vn worships johns he has proven less on the football so vols fans should be cautious before naming their kid after him.

On a good note happy mem weekend vets

Semper fi..
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They both took over much better situations, much healthier programs and much more talented rosters than CBJ, so the comparison of records isn't valid.

That being said, neither belongs anywhere near 1 or 2 on this list. Dooley is hands down much worse than either... not remotely close b
 
#62
#62
KBVol said:
They both took over much better situations, much healthier programs and much more talented rosters than CBJ, so the comparison of records isn't valid.
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mmmmmmm ... maybe.

CDD was cited for having a number of "firsts" as far as freshmen starting in key positions. most notably the O line. CBJ inherited an experienced preNFL O line. note also that kiffin's O line had two walk ons starting.

both CDD and CBJ inherited mediocre, but experienced, QBs.

CDD landed a top 10 recruiting class to bolster what he had inherited. so did CLK. CBJ landed a top 30 class.

CDD reportedly had only 62 scholarship players his first year (due to attrition per kiffin). CBJ had a full scholarship roster of 85, iirc.

overall conclusion of course depends on considering all factors and how much weight one chooses to assign to each one, but i can't agree with your categorization of "much better" all across the board.
 
#63
#63
tm3 said:
mmmmmmm ... maybe.

CDD was cited for having a number of "firsts" as far as freshmen starting in key positions. most notably the O line. CBJ inherited an experienced preNFL O line. note also that kiffin's O line had two walk ons starting.

both CDD and CBJ inherited mediocre, but experienced, QBs.

CDD landed a top 10 recruiting class to bolster what he had inherited. so did CLK. CBJ landed a top 30 class.

CDD reportedly had only 62 scholarship players his first year (due to attrition per kiffin). CBJ had a full scholarship roster of 85, iirc.

overall conclusion of course depends on considering all factors and how much weight one chooses to assign to each one, but i can't agree with your categorization of "much better" all across the board.
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Was referring to Zook and Chizik, not Dooley in responding to a previous poster. Apologies for not making that clear.

While I'm here though, I think Dooley took over a program in chaos and, like any new coach would've done, stabilized it over the course of 3 years. However, he recruited poorly and instilled such a culture of losing that Butch took over a football program in complete shambles from A to Z.
 
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#65
#65
BigOrangeTrain said:
Just shows firing Fulmer was a HUGE mistake.
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It didn't seem so at the time. Not putting Fulmer down, but he had a problem maintaining team discipline, and that is why his last few teams took a slide and he was shown the door.

Firing Fulmer wasn't the HUGE mistake IMO, but the timing of it was. When Cut wasn't on his staff, he just wasn't getting things done on the field. Though I respect Coach Fulmer, he was not a modern day Robert Neyland by any stretch of the imagination. And to think he would have kept Tennessee in contention for SEC and National titles without David Cutcliffe as OC is just plain dumb. Had Fulmer not been fired when he was, fans would have been demanding his retirement louder the next year. However, considering UT paid out 6M in buyout, he should have been given one more year, and Lane Kiffin would never have been our problem.

Now, if you want to talk the HUGE mistake, it was hiring Mike Hamilton as AD after Doug Dickey retired. The only good that moron did was on overseeing facility upgrades. His management of athletic dept. finances and contract structuring was a joke. And his coaching hires? Rather than rolling up his sleeves and doing the search himself, he hires a "search firm". That, as we all know, didn't work out so well. And those who got fired got big money buyouts. In 2005, Tennessee was one of the few major universities operating in the black with $64 million in revenue. Now, the reserve fund is 1.9 million? Now, that is what I call a HUGE mistake, and a very bad joke of a hire.
 
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#67
#67
tm3 said:
mmmmmmm ... maybe.

CDD was cited for having a number of "firsts" as far as freshmen starting in key positions. most notably the O line. CBJ inherited an experienced preNFL O line. note also that kiffin's O line had two walk ons starting.

both CDD and CBJ inherited mediocre, but experienced, QBs.

CDD landed a top 10 recruiting class to bolster what he had inherited. so did CLK. CBJ landed a top 30 class.

CDD reportedly had only 62 scholarship players his first year (due to attrition per kiffin). CBJ had a full scholarship roster of 85, iirc.

overall conclusion of course depends on considering all factors and how much weight one chooses to assign to each one, but i can't agree with your categorization of "much better" all across the board.
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I don't think he was referring to a CBJ/CDD comparison.

But to address this, I think you're severely overstating the talent on the roster in Butch's first year.

He had better line play, line play doesn't win football games. Think back to 2010, the receiving corp was D-Moore, Hunter, G. Jones, and Luke Stocker.

If CBJ hadn't had the miracle recruit of North last year, he would have had a receiving corp that had absolutely NO talent. Receivers who can catch the ball will win games long before having solid O and D lines will.

And I know this will stir the pot, but give me a freshman Bray coming off the bench instead of a freshman Dobbs 10 times out of 10.

Dooley took in a much better situation.
 
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#69
#69
KBVol said:
While I'm here though, I think Dooley took over a program in chaos and, like any new coach would've done, stabilized it over the course of 3 years. However, he recruited poorly and instilled such a culture of losing that Butch took over a football program in complete shambles from A to Z.
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Winning is a mindset...better a culture. Dooley was a quitter....his teams played that way. With the bottom tier SEC talent he recruited and coached how to lose.....the best thing for the program is for them to graduate and move along....but thanks for coming :hi:
 
#70
#70
Many people bash the actual hiring of Kiffin but I don't. Knowing what we all know now...definitely a terrible choice. I think Kiffin had potential and I loved his recruiting even if it hit us with a few sanctions and he had a pretty good energy...but he was just too sketchy. Until this day...I do not know why we hired Dooley. That was a weak move by Hart and seriously...that was the only coach we could pull?
 
#73
#73
dcm3w said:
Many people bash the actual hiring of Kiffin but I don't. Knowing what we all know now...definitely a terrible choice. I think Kiffin had potential and I loved his recruiting even if it hit us with a few sanctions and he had a pretty good energy...but he was just too sketchy. Until this day...I do not know why we hired Dooley. That was a weak move by Hart and seriously...that was the only coach we could pull?
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Hart didn't hire Dooley. Hamilton's hire.
 
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#74
#74
I personally believe that Kiffin would've us a National Title had the USC job not opened up precisely when it did. I know we despise him for leaving UT but he was merely going home. It would be similar to one of us coaching out West and then UT offering us the HC job. We would all take it in a heartbeat. Firing Fulmer was too late imo. He should've been fired in 05. Dooley was a waaaaaaaaay more ignorant hire than any of the other mistakes we've made. He has set UT football back by decades. I honestly believe CBJ is a great coach. I hope he proves me correct. GO VOLS!
 
#75
#75
LouisVol76 said:
I personally believe that Kiffin would've us a National Title had the USC job not opened up precisely when it did. I know we despise him for leaving UT but he was merely going home. It would be similar to one of us coaching out West and then UT offering us the HC job. We would all take it in a heartbeat. Firing Fulmer was too late imo. He should've been fired in 05. Dooley was a waaaaaaaaay more ignorant hire than any of the other mistakes we've made. He has set UT football back by decades. I honestly believe CBJ is a great coach. I hope he proves me correct. GO VOLS!
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You're going to need to base this on something semi-reasonable or your credibility is forever forfeited.
 
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