Draft Day Blues

[hatvol96]

Sometimes you cannot be the person to initiate the conflict, that is if your standing in the fan base is important to you, meaning that polarizing ideas cannot come out of your mouth. This can be done without tipping your hand by perhaps saying something like," It grieves me that my motives are questioned, I love this university and its fan base", and then leave it up to the media, and others around you to plead your case. Sometimes you cannot wear your feelings on your sleave without being villianized.

Two things: 1. I would faint from shock if Jam ever began a sentence "It grieves me." 2. That wouldn't have been telling the truth. Jam doesn't love the fan base. They treated him horribly. The fan treatment of Jam, coupled with Fulmer's jealousy driven decision to allow Rodney Garner to leave for UGA, has effectively killed our recruiting in the state of Georgia.

 

[jakez4ut]

i'll say this about the "speaking your mind" aspect of things, and as it relates to white/black players, really has no bearing on my opinion on the subject.

i agree with GAVal....that how you communicate the "truth" does impact on how it's taken....If the truth gets lost in how the message is delivered, then the truth doesn't matter, regardless of who's speaking.

One thing that always holds true is--perception is reality--good, bad or indifferent. Then what you're dealing with is stereotypes. Whether it be how a black athelete is perceived by "speaking his mind" or if it's "golly gee" perception of a particluar fanbase. Niether of which are entirely accurate. but the percptions of both are accurate when comments such as these are made.

my opinion of Kelly Washington has nothing to do with his injury, but has more to do with the attitude he projected while he was at UT. Attitude, in my opinion, has a lot to do with the viability of person as it relates to the team concept. Individuals in a team sport that deem themselves as "special" or "the Future", over and above the goals of the team, are an obstacle. Attitude does affect the chemistry, and from all accounts i have seen, his attitude affected it negatively.

but as i stated earlier, and Carl Pickens is a good example of this, if you are a player that is talented enough to be considered next level worthy, you have to have a bit of cockiness about yourself. Carl Pickens was cocky, i don't think anyone would argue that. Some would maybe even say he was too cocky etc....and there may be some truth to that as well, he was never short on words for opposing players, but by and large, he backed it up and he, as far as i know, never put himself above the team goals. As evidence, i simply state the fact that he played DB, WR, and KR/PR for UT while he was here---basically, he played wherever he was needed in order for the team to win.

It just so happened that he was exceptional at everything he was asked to do, so in turn, it benefited him when it came time to cash in.

Jamal Lewis, on the other hand, and i do really like the guy, he was great, there was a percepiton, right or wrong, that in his last season at UT, he didn't run as hard as he previously did. But again, i would simply point to the Auburn game in 98, where he tore his knee up, and continued to play in that game after the injury. That to me does not denote an individual solely out for himself. Now in 99, did he deliberately scale it back to remain injury free for the draft? only he knows the answer to that question, and i can certainly understand why people would think that, but imo, Jamal Lewis doesn't stand out as someone that was or should be crucified.

and that to me is the difference between Jamal, Carl and Kelly. But make no mistake, all three were at UT so they could make it to the NFL someday. And i'm fine with that.

 

[Lexvol]

Two things: 1. I would faint from shock if Jam ever began a sentence "It grieves me." 2. That wouldn't have been telling the truth. Jam doesn't love the fan base. They treated him horribly. The fan treatment of Jam, coupled with Fulmer's jealousy driven decision to allow Rodney Garner to leave for UGA, has effectively killed our recruiting in the state of Georgia.

We will have to agree to disagree on the "truth" factor.

As far as Garner goes, I think his presence was devisive (based on my connection with the team while he was there). That certainly doesn't make that fact, but it is certainly a variable. Auburn has survived and thrived without him, so it doesn't take Garner to build a NC team. As a matter of fact, GA hasn't won an NC with him around.

 

[hatvol96]

i'll say this about the "speaking your mind" aspect of things, and as it relates to white/black players, really has no bearing on my opinion on the subject.

i agree with GAVal....that how you communicate the "truth" does impact on how it's taken....If the truth gets lost in how the message is delivered, then the truth doesn't matter, regardless of who's speaking.

One thing that always holds true is--perception is reality--good, bad or indifferent. Then what you're dealing with is stereotypes. Whether it be how a black athelete is perceived by "speaking his mind" or if it's "golly gee" perception of a particluar fanbase. Niether of which are entirely accurate. but the percptions of both are accurate when comments such as these are made.

my opinion of Kelly Washington has nothing to do with his injury, but has more to do with the attitude he projected while he was at UT. Attitude, in my opinion, has a lot to do with the viability of person as it relates to the team concept. Individuals in a team sport that deem themselves as "special" or "the Future", over and above the goals of the team, are an obstacle. Attitude does affect the chemistry, and from all accounts i have seen, his attitude affected it negatively.

but as i stated earlier, and Carl Pickens is a good example of this, if you are a player that is talented enough to be considered next level worthy, you have to have a bit of cockiness about yourself. Carl Pickens was cocky, i don't think anyone would argue that. Some would maybe even say he was too cocky etc....and there may be some truth to that as well, he was never short on words for opposing players, but by and large, he backed it up and he, as far as i know, never put himself above the team goals. As evidence, i simply state the fact that he played DB, WR, and KR/PR for UT while he was here---basically, he played wherever he was needed in order for the team to win.

It just so happened that he was exceptional at everything he was asked to do, so in turn, it benefited him when it came time to cash in.

Jamal Lewis, on the other hand, and i do really like the guy, he was great, there was a percepiton, right or wrong, that in his last season at UT, he didn't run as hard as he previously did. But again, i would simply point to the Auburn game in 98, where he tore his knee up, and continued to play in that game after the injury. That to me does not denote an individual solely out for himself. Now in 99, did he deliberately scale it back to remain injury free for the draft? only he knows the answer to that question, and i can certainly understand why people would think that, but imo, Jamal Lewis doesn't stand out as someone that was or should be crucified.

and that to me is the difference between Jamal, Carl and Kelly. But make no mistake, all three were at UT so they could make it to the NFL someday. And i'm fine with that.

I only take issue with one thing in this post. How did Washington's attitude negatively affect the team in '01? His inability to play due to injury hurt the '02 team a great deal more than his proclaiming himself the "Future."

 

[Lexvol]

I only take issue with one thing in this post. How did Washington's attitude negatively affect the team in '01? His inability to play due to injury hurt the '02 team a great deal more than his proclaiming himself the "Future."

It would actually be interesting to know. It does feel as though KW set a different precedent that players at skill positions are treated much differently than other players on the team. That special treatment will divide a team as much as anything.

 

[hatvol96]

It would actually be interesting to know. It does feel as though KW set a different precedent that players at skill positions are treated much differently than other players on the team. That special treatment will divide a team as much as anything.

I don't think his attitude is the reason for the mindless short kickoff or the "Mustang" defense against UGA. I also don't think his demeanor caused Travis Stephens or Donte Stallworth to fumble in the SEC Championship game. Therefore, I can't come up with any way in which his attitude was a detriment to the 2001 team.

 

[Lexvol]

I don't think his attitude is the reason for the mindless short kickoff or the "Mustang" defense against UGA. I also don't think his demeanor caused Travis Stephens or Donte Stallworth to fumble in the SEC Championship game. Therefore, I can't come up with any way in which his attitude was a detriment to the 2001 team.

Nor can I see how is attitude was an attribute for that matter. In the end it appeared that he was much more a detriment than an aid.

 

[hatvol96]

Nor can I see how is attitude was an attribute for that matter. In the end it appeared that he was much more a detriment than an aid.

The best college teams of the last 20-25 years have been built on attitude. Miami, USC, Oklahoma, Florida State. All have a healthy swagger. Nebraska didn't breakthrough in big games until they started adding guys like Lawrence Phillips and the Peter brothers. Florida dominated the SEC for a decade with a self assuredness that came from the top down. I think Washington's attitude was a great addition to the '01 team. The '02 team failed due to injuries, not an overabundance of confidence.

 

[cd12]

I only take issue with one thing in this post. How did Washington's attitude negatively affect the team in '01? His inability to play due to injury hurt the '02 team a great deal more than his proclaiming himself the "Future."

Actually I have heard that Troy Flemming was more of a problem than Washington. About the draft ever notice how workouts come into play for some players but not others. They can crucify a guy on his 40 times etc but its no big deal for others.

 

[Lexvol]

The best college teams of the last 20-25 years have been built on attitude. Miami, USC, Oklahoma, Florida State. All have a healthy swagger. Nebraska didn't breakthrough in big games until they started adding guys like Lawrence Phillips and the Peter brothers. Florida dominated the SEC for a decade with a self assuredness that came from the top down. I think Washington's attitude was a great addition to the '01 team. The '02 team failed due to injuries, not an overabundance of confidence.

I had a typo in the post. Should have read "his" attitude. Back to what separates all of those winners with the UT squad of 2001....they actually won championships.

IMO the UT teams since the last NC all thought they were better than they were, and their was nobody better at that than a Clausen. KW is obviously a mediocre athlete, and should have never been so cocky. He couldn't make in the minors, he couldn't stay healthy in college, and he can't make in the NFL. The Future is a thing of the past and it is only 2006.

Does that mean I dislike KW? Nope, went to see him at Bengals training camp every chance I got. Do I think he unjustifiably shot his mouth up and divided the team, yes. I say earn your swagger.

 

[jakez4ut]

The best college teams of the last 20-25 years have been built on attitude. Miami, USC, Oklahoma, Florida State. All have a healthy swagger. Nebraska didn't breakthrough in big games until they started adding guys like Lawrence Phillips and the Peter brothers. Florida dominated the SEC for a decade with a self assuredness that came from the top down. I think Washington's attitude was a great addition to the '01 team. The '02 team failed due to injuries, not an overabundance of confidence.

and if we had a team of players that had that swagger...i'd have no problem with that....and like i said, swagger is something i think you should have, if you are supposed to be that good....it's a good thing, as evidenced by some of the teams you mention above...

What is a detriment to a team is when an individual thinks they are above the team or the team's goals. THis is the issue i had with Washington....i seem to remember a quote from him, and i think it was in 02, not sure...but it was a post game quote, where he said that he wasn't playing for SEC titles or National Title, rather that he was playing for himself, period.


but that kind of attitude is what i'm talking about....confidence...good. selfishness....bad. I would classify KW as selfish...jmo.

 

[hatvol96]

I had a typo in the post. Should have read "his" attitude. Back to what separates all of those winners with the UT squad of 2001....they actually won championships.

IMO the UT teams since the last NC all thought they were better than they were, and their was nobody better at that than a Clausen. KW is obviously a mediocre athlete, and should have never been so cocky. He couldn't make in the minors, he couldn't stay healthy in college, and he can't make in the NFL. The Future is a thing of the past and it is only 2006.

Does that mean I dislike KW? Nope, went to see him at Bengals training camp every chance I got. Do I think he unjustifiably shot his mouth up and divided the team, yes. I say earn your swagger.

Can't make it in the NFL? The Bengals just signed him for another year. That will give him 4 years in the League. Given the average career length, I'd consider that having made it in the league. I haven't seen many mediocre athletes play professional baseball, then switch sports and play multiple years in the NFL.

 

[Lexvol]

Can't make it in the NFL? The Bengals just signed him for another year. That will give him 4 years in the League. Given the average career length, I'd consider that having made it in the league. I haven't seen many mediocre athletes play professional baseball, then switch sports and play multiple years in the NFL.

Is four years what the "Future" is really all about though? Hines Ward never called himself the Future and he just won a ring with arguably fewer tools.

 

[jakez4ut]

Is four years what the "Future" is really all about though? Hines Ward never called himself the Future and he just won a ring with arguably fewer tools.

good point!
(of course i'm biased...)

 

[milohimself]

Sure they do, but to think that every prospect that signs with UT signs with the intention of bringing glory to UT just for the sake of doing so because they love UT so much, is not feasible. It's to their benefit for them to do so, it's to their benefit if it happens, but the larger goal for the kids that have that kind of talent is to go to the NFL....everything that happens before then, is resume building.

I would just prefer that a player comes into Tennessee as a Vol first and a future NFL'er second. That's all. It means they are willing to work harder for their team instead of for themselves. I know they can both better the team, but there is a difference.

 

[dan4vols]

agreed its called servant leadership which is light years ahead of gold tooth havin, geri curl, black on black monicure hat, thug mentality. Be a leader by being your being your counterparts servant.

 

[hatvol96]

agreed its called servant leadership which is light years ahead of gold tooth havin, geri curl, black on black monicure hat, thug mentality. Be a leader by being your being your counterparts servant.

You take your "servant" types. I'll take guys like Ray Lewis, Sean Taylor, Carl Pickens, and Jamal Lewis and proceed to beat the "servants" within an inch of their lives. Last time I checked, neither the NCAA nor the NFL handed out championship trophies for citizenship.

 

[dan4vols]

You take your "servant" types. I'll take guys like Ray Lewis, Sean Taylor, Carl Pickens, and Jamal Lewis and proceed to beat the "servants" within an inch of their lives. Last time I checked, neither the NCAA nor the NFL handed out championship trophies for citizenship.

what Im reffering to is team chemistry by all the players having mutual respect for one another and as important themselves. Players like the twins Jamal and Ray Lewis are all about look what I did, not look what we did. What championships do these guys you mentioned claim?

 

[hatvol96]

what Im reffering to is team chemistry by all the players having mutual respect for one another and as important themselves. Players like the twins Jamal and Ray Lewis are all about look what I did, not look what we did. What championships do these guys you mentioned claim?

Ray and Jamal Lewis-Super Bowl champions. Sean Taylor and Jamal Lewis-National Champions. Carl Pickens and Jamal Lewis-2 SEC titles each. Any more questions?

 

[tclowers23]

WOOPS

 

[GAVol]

Randy Sanders could not develop ability into NFL talent. The highest picks we've had in the last few years have been defensive players. Coach Cut will hopefully help develop more offensive players like Peyton Manning, Peerless Price, Jamal Lewis, James Stewart, Tee Martin, Charlie Garner and Shawn Bryson.

You might want to check and see who was coaching all those running backs in the 90s.

 

[tclowers23]

You might want to check and see who was coaching all those running backs in the 90s.

Yeah, but didn't Cut at least have all them for a little while... even if it was just when they were underclassmen? I don't really know... someone set me straight on this.

 

[hatvol96]

Yeah, but didn't Cut at least have all them for a little while... even if it was just when they were underclassmen? I don't really know... someone set me straight on this.

I don't remember Cutcliffe ever being the running backs coach. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't have it in my memory bank.

 

[GAVol]

I know Cut was OC and QB coach from '93-'98, and Sanders was RB coach through most of the 90s. But I can't remember which position Cutcliffe coached prior to being OC.

 

[GAVol]

OK, I just checked . . . Cutcliffe coached Tackles and TE's from '82-'88, Running backs in '89, QBs '90-'92 and was the OC and coached QBs from '93-'98.