Duke-Maryland

#253
#253
BigPapaVol said:
K's still on pace, but he doesn't need that record to validate that he is one of the greatest of all time. He and Knight both built legendary programs from scratch, won 3 titles and won a truckload of games. Very, very few belong in their category.
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BPV..do you consider Billy D building UF from scratch?
 
#254
#254
billy d built UF from scratch. I don't care for his coaching, but can't argue with his success. the one perfect storm of a team, which he couldn't screw up, cemented his legacy.
 
#256
#256
BigPapaVol said:
K's still on pace, but he doesn't need that record to validate that he is one of the greatest of all time. He and Knight both built legendary programs from scratch, won 3 titles and won a truckload of games. Very, very few belong in their category.
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K has taken Duke to a new level of success, but he didn't build Duke from scratch.

They were in the final 4 two seasons before he started and won the ACC 5 teams in the 20 years prior to K's arrival. They were one of the top 5 teams throughout most of the 60s.
 
#257
#257
If Coach K ever does surpass Bobby Knight in wins, it will kinda be ironic considering Coach K once played under Knight when Knight coached Army.
 
#258
#258
TennNC said:
K has taken Duke to a new level of success, but he didn't build Duke from scratch.

They were in the final 4 two seasons before he started and won the ACC 5 teams in the 20 years prior to K's arrival. They were one of the top 5 teams throughout most of the 60s.
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i think he's referring to what roy williams has done at carolina. carolina has had previous success, but their program was going downhill with doherty. that's sorta like what coach k did at duke.
 
#259
#259
dantheman617 said:
If Coach K ever does surpass Bobby Knight in wins, it will kinda be ironic considering Coach K once played under Knight when Knight coached Army.
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coach k is only 108 or 109 wins behind bob knight as of last night. so if it stays that way or coach k starts to catch up on wins, he will only have to coach maybe 3-5 years after knight retires.
 
#260
#260
usat&f said:
i think he's referring to what roy williams has done at carolina. carolina has had previous success, but their program was going downhill with doherty. that's sorta like what coach k did at duke.
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I understand, but I guess when I hear "from scratch," I interpret that as taking something that has no recent success, no inherent talent, and building it from essentially nothing.

Remember that Roy won in '05 with all of Doherty's players, save Marvin Williams. Fabulous coaching job, but he did it with players recruited by someone else.

Duke actually won the ACC tourney and made the Elite 8 the year before K arrived, so he hardly came in on a program going downhill. It took him a few years (including a couple of losing seasons), but K eventually elevated Duke's already historic program.

Pearl truly has built something from scratch. He took a team (same players) that had a losing season the year before, hadn't made the tourney in several years, and had no basketball tradition the past 20 years before he took over.

Before you K/Duke lovers start bashing me for speaking the truth, I want you to know I'm not saying Pearl's a better coach than K. Just that Pearl has built something from scratch whereas K didn't (b/c it was already pretty darn good).
 
#261
#261
usat&f said:
coach k is only 108 or 109 wins behind bob knight as of last night. so if it stays that way or coach k starts to catch up on wins, he will only have to coach maybe 3-5 years after knight retires.
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Unless K's back acts up again, he will absolutely blow by the all-time wins record and become the Pat Summit of men's basketball.
 
#262
#262
It is hard to credit Roy for the 2005 NC. All he had to do was throw a ball on the court and watch those guys play ball.
 
#263
#263
usat&f said:
i think he's referring to what roy williams has done at carolina. carolina has had previous success, but their program was going downhill with doherty. that's sorta like what coach k did at duke.
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I doubt he had any inclination of referring to Roy Williams when he said that.
 
#265
#265
TennNC said:
That didn't work for Doherty. What makes you think it would've worked for Roy?
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Doherty didn't just throw the ball on the court. Doherty, like Buzz, tried to turn his players into little puritans off the court. I would have to say that is where the backlash came for both coaches.
 
#266
#266
therealUT said:
Doherty didn't just throw the ball on the court. Doherty, like Buzz, tried to turn his players into little puritans off the court. I would have to say that is where the backlash came for both coaches.
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if you mean he tried to make them good citizens off the court, what is wrong with that? coach k has been doing that since he got to duke and it worked out well for him.
 
#267
#267
usat&f said:
if you mean he tried to make them good citizens off the court, what is wrong with that? coach k has been doing that since he got to duke and it worked out well for him.
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I have not ever heard that Coach K forced his players to go to church with him...
 
#268
#268
i'm sure coach k didn't force them to go to church. but i feel like i read somewhere about them going to church. i think it was in Five-Point Play, not sure though. too lazy to go look it up.
 
#269
#269
One thing that I have always liked about K is the way he handles underclassmen. Your frosh year you are not allowed to drive, instead he instills comrodery (sp) by making the younger players and the senior players spend time together.
 
#270
#270
therealUT said:
Doherty didn't just throw the ball on the court. Doherty, like Buzz, tried to turn his players into little puritans off the court. I would have to say that is where the backlash came for both coaches.
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Are you referring to requiring players attending church? I believe Dean Smith did the same thing too, and he won 2 NCs and made a whole bunch of Final 4s. And there was no backlash.

Doherty's backlash might have had more to do with being a jerk.
 
#271
#271
TennNC said:
Are you referring to requiring players attending church? I believe Dean Smith did the same thing too, and he won 2 NCs and made a whole bunch of Final 4s. And there was no backlash.

Doherty's backlash might have had more to do with being a jerk.
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And being a terrible bench coach.
 
#272
#272
TennNC said:
K has taken Duke to a new level of success, but he didn't build Duke from scratch.

They were in the final 4 two seasons before he started and won the ACC 5 teams in the 20 years prior to K's arrival. They were one of the top 5 teams throughout most of the 60s.
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Absolutely right. He did have something to start with.

I don't think what was in place had anything at all to do with what the program has become, but he did not walk into the shambles that I implied.
 
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