Emmanuel Negedu has been CLEARED to play again

#126
#126
Ok, here is a similar situation to E-Man's.

I have a swollen spleen and liver. I played basketball not knowing I had these problems. After playing basketball, I continued into baseball season. We then figured out what was wrong. There was a chance that I could ruptured my spleen or do damage to my liver. I didn't even ask my doctor if I can play. I knew I shouldn't. I believe that E-Man will know what decision to make. If he has doubts, he shouldn't play. If him and doctors are 100% confident nothing will happen, then there should be no reason for him not to play.
 
#127
#127
BasketvolsFan said:
There is a major difference in not engaging in activity if you don't know you have a problem and doing the same thing when you are aware of a potential life threating condition. Why don't you give up this stupid argument. If you jump in front of a train, you are much more likely to die than standing away from the train and waiting for it to pass.
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And that's the point of the stupid argument. An expert is saying his potential of a life threatening condition is low enough the he is clearing him to play. What's stupid about that?
 
#128
#128
zjcvols said:
If he's been cleared, then he should be allowed to play. He'd be a big asset.

BTW for anyone worried about the Hank Gathers thing. If Gathers had taken his medicine correctly, he would still be alive, and this situation is different.
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You are incorrect. Medicines cannot prevent sudden cardiac death in someone with HOCM. The sympahtetic output of intense exercise will eventually overcome the beta blockers. The only preventative measure for HOCM is reduced exercise intesity.
 
#129
#129
zjcvols said:
If him and doctors are 100% confident nothing will happen, then there should be no reason for him not to play.
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Again, where do you people come up with this zero risk threshold? Everything we do has some risk. The question is "what is an acceptable risk?"
 
#130
#130
TNBV said:
You are incorrect. Medicines cannot prevent sudden cardiac death in someone with HOCM. The sympahtetic output of intense exercise will eventually overcome the beta blockers. The only preventative measure for HOCM is reduced exercise intesity.
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Okay, that may be right, but Gathers had medicine he was suppose to take and did not take them. That led to his passing.
 
#131
#131
Velo Vol said:
Again, where do you people come up with this zero risk threshold? Everything we do has some risk. The question is "what is an acceptable risk?"
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Because it is his life? This isn't an ACL like we said earlier.
 
#132
#132
zjcvols said:
Okay, that may be right, but Gathers had medicine he was suppose to take and did not take them. That led to his passing.
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Doubtful. He didn't take the medicines but it it is my understanding that that he was not diagnosed with HOCM until after he died. The meds were for a symptom of the condition. There is no evidence that supports the use of beta blockers to prevent sudden cardiac arrest during exercise for pt's with HOCM.

By the way, does anyone know what Negedu has been diagnosed with? I have not seen it in the articles.
 
#133
#133
E-man is going to run, jump, sprint, dunk, and be in all kind of situations that test his heart regardless of whether or not Bruce lets him play. If he doesn't let him play and he decides to stay at UT for whatever reason - he's still always going to be fooling around playing pick up basketball and what-not. You can't expect him not to engage in physical activity after the doctors cleared him. And - if he does transfer - he's playing somewhere else as well.
 
#134
#134
TNBV said:
Doubtful. He didn't take the medicines but it it is my understanding that that he was not diagnosed with HOCM until after he died. The meds were for a symptom of the condition. There is no evidence that supports the use of beta blockers to prevent sudden cardiac arrest during exercise for pt's with HOCM.

By the way, does anyone know what Negedu has been diagnosed with? I have not seen it in the articles.
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I watched the documentary. Gathers didn't take the medicines. They said if he took his meds properly, he should be fine to play. He didn't, and that's why he collapsed.
 
#135
#135
zjcvols said:
I watched the documentary. Gathers didn't take the medicines. They said if he took his meds properly, he should be fine to play. He didn't, and that's why he collapsed.
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Well, I didn't watch the documentary, but I am still telling you that there is no evidence that beta blockers prevent sudden cardiac death in atheletes with HOCM, which Gathers had. Beta blockers are used to slow the progression of the myopathy. There is no MD out there who would tell someone with HOCM that they can continue to exercise intensely if they take beta blockers, because there is no evidence to prove it. Therefore, anyone who says he would have not died if he was on his meds is just speculating without facts.
 
#136
#136
TNBV said:
Well, I didn't watch the documentary, but I am still telling you that there is no evidence that beta blockers prevent sudden cardiac death in atheletes with HOCM, which Gathers had. Beta blockers are used to slow the progression of the myopathy. There is no MD out there who would tell someone with HOCM that they can continue to exercise intensely if they take beta blockers, because there is no evidence to prove it. Therefore, anyone who says he would have not died if he was on his meds is just speculating without facts.
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Look, I'm nowhere near a doctor. I'm not trying to say that I am. I watched the documentary and they cleared him to play. They cleared him basing the fact that he would take his medicines. (whatever they were, I don't know which). He stopped taking his meds, and then soon collapsed. Did not taking his meds kill him completely? No. But that sure as hell didn't help him.
 
#137
#137
BasketvolsFan said:
If you have to go to that extent to let him on the court, that alone should tell you it is not the right decision.
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If three independent doctors cleared him to play basketball then that alone should tell you that playing him is not the right decision?

Not following your logic.
 
#138
#138
zjcvols said:
Look, I'm nowhere near a doctor. I'm not trying to say that I am. I watched the documentary and they cleared him to play. They cleared him basing the fact that he would take his medicines. (whatever they were, I don't know which). He stopped taking his meds, and then soon collapsed. Did not taking his meds kill him completely? No. But that sure as hell didn't help him.
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I'm pretty sure Gather's family sued LMU claiming Westhead advised the docs to reduce his meds because they were affecting his play. Thus the coach and school were liable.
 
#139
#139
I hear you. Like I said, I am not sure they new his true condition until after he died, which is HOCM. Beta blockers (which was the type med he was on) address one part of HOCM. He was diagnosed with exercise induced tachycardia, which just means when he exercises, his heart rate exceeds what would be normal for someone his age and condition. That diagnoses however does not give you a why. Beta blockers do slow down the heart rate too a point, but his heart rate was just a symptom of his condition, which involves cardiac perfusion and possible electrical circuitry. Had they know he had HOCM (hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopahty) his tx would have involved him not playing sports. So maybe his meds would have saved him that day, or maybe not, but there is no evidenc that they would.
This is why I ask what Negedu has. It is doubtful any cardiologist would clear him if he had HOCM, even with an ICD. If his problem is electrical, it is possible that it was repaired or that it is believed to be an event that's chances of happening again along with the ICD make him at a very minimal risk.
HOCM is the most likely diagnosis just by odds, except that he had a screening echocariogram that year, which makes me think it is lees likely and that possibly a circuit issue like WPW, that can be corrected, or possible an issue that involved a medicine he was on at the time were to blame.
 
#140
#140
UT IE 95 said:
I'm pretty sure Gather's family sued LMU claiming Westhead advised the docs to reduce his meds because they were affecting his play. Thus the coach and school were liable.
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You said that Gathers would not have died had he been taking his meds. I just pointed out that it is pure speculation, with no evidence to support it. would his meds have helped? Maybe, but unfounded by evidence. Not playing ball would have most certainly helped with much more evidence to support it.
 
#141
#141
TNBV said:
You said that Gathers would not have died had he been taking his meds. I just pointed out that it is pure speculation, with no evidence to support it. would his meds have helped? Maybe, but unfounded by evidence. Not playing ball would have most certainly helped with much more evidence to support it.
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The bolded statement is pure speculation with no evidence to support it.
 
#142
#142
kidbourbon said:
The bolded statement is pure speculation with no evidence to support it.
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Actually, it is not. the evidence clearly states that intense exercise greatly increases the incidence of cardiac dysrythmia in patients who have HOCM.
 
#143
#143
Just an fyi, Negedu has an ICD implanted, not a pacemaker which regulates the heartbeat. It's a mini defibrillator to shock the heart when it senses the heart stop.

Implantable Cardioverter Defibrillator

I personally think it's Negedu's decision. It's his heart and his life. If he wants to play, and Bruce let's him, I'm happy. I really love the way he plays with "heart". If Bruce and UT won't let him play, again it's his decision. If he wants to play that bad he can transfer to a smaller school. If he chooses to stay on medical scholarship and get his degree, I'm happy for him, too. If he were my son, I would encourage him not to play, but even if he were, I couldn't stop him from playing pick up games. At least he would be under constant care during practices and games. Let's just hope whatever plays out is the best for the young man.
 
#144
#144
Considering where he grew up, I am sure he would be more likely to die in his homeland than he would be playing on the basketball court. I hope the University respects his desire to play because he is a class act.
 
#145
#145
The decision is not likely CBPs to make and definitely not Emmanuel's. It is the University's most likely. If he were to fall down dead in the middle of a game this coming year, people wouldn't be blaming him. The public scrutiny would be on CBP and the University for letting him come back. Could you imagine how bad that would look on Bruce and UT if that were to happen? A kid died because we let a kid come back a year after almost dying from a severe heart condition. Now, he could come back and be very successful on the court and have no ill effects. I just don't know if its worth the risk.
 
#146
#146
I agree with you that it is not Negedu's decision whether he plays at UT, but it is his decision whether he plays somewhere again.
 
#147
#147
UT IE 95 said:
And that's the point of the stupid argument. An expert is saying his potential of a life threatening condition is low enough the he is clearing him to play. What's stupid about that?
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What's stupid about it is comparing it to situations where folks have no known medical condition with statements such as "you are aware that your heart could stop today". Any of us could pass at any time. However, we are likely to make different decisions if we know we have a potential life threating situation than if we have no knowledge of a problem.---Enough said.
 
#148
#148
Maybe we should shut down all motorsport racing...its just too risky. Emmanuel is a grown man and I'm sure he's very clear on what the risks of returning to basketball can be. If the doctors have cleared him, there's no reason why he shouldn't play.
 
#149
#149
kidbourbon said:
If three independent doctors cleared him to play basketball then that alone should tell you that playing him is not the right decision?

Not following your logic.
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Interesting that you left out the part about getting him to sign a waiver that he would not sue UT. That was the reason for my statement, not three independent doctors clearing him to play. Perhaps that helps clear up the logic.
 
#150
#150
UT IE 95 said:
I know he's had full medical treatment on his heart and a specialist is staking his career on clearing him to play. Have you have a cardiologist clear you recently?
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No, but I haven't gone into cardiac arrest and had a pacemaker put in. Slight difference.
 
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