Eric Garner Grandy Jury Decision Today

#203
#203
theFallGuy said:
The bigger question at stake here that no one is talking about is the insane high tax on New York cigarettes. These taxes indirectly led to his death.
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That tax isn't high enough imho. I'd double it every year if I were king. Let the mob have that business, and when someone shows up with lung cancer due to smoking, sew 'em up, give 'em a pat on the butt and say have a nice life... what's left of it.

I don't understand how ObolaCare will cover smoking related illness when anybody that is older than 15 that has the ability to read knows that it will kill you. And yes, I realize that that is a very slippery slope... but so is the rest of ObolaCare...
 
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#206
#206
lawgator1 said:
The law is quite clear that alternatives to use of deadly force are not relevant to the reasonableness of deadly force. That is, if you are justified in firing your gun, then even if an argument could be made that you might have been able to fend off a threat with less lethal alternatives, that is not relevant.

In this case, its less clear. The choke hold lasts for, at most, two seconds. Gardner is then down on the ground and is actually still resisting. They get him down and the problem was that he was massive and face down, with his head tilted to the side. That's why he couldn't breather. Not because of the choke hold.

If they tasered him, what happens when his diseased heart gives out? Then the police are criticized for that. If they whallop him with asp batons and that's on video, out come the Rodney King comparisons.

It started with Gardner defying police verbally. Then raising his hands, then pulling away, and physically resisting throughout. Any pain compliance technique would have been blasted by the critics, whether it be by Gardner himself in a civil suit, or by supporters had he died some other way.

Again, I agree that it was excessive and against policy and should yield civil liability. I am however more reluctant than others to call it criminal.
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I agree with quiet a bit of this.

I have watched this video several times and Im still in shock that the guy died from that altercation.
 
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#208
#208
SpaceCoastVol said:
That tax isn't high enough imho. I'd double it every year if I were king. Let the mob have that business, and when someone shows up with lung cancer due to smoking, sew 'em up, give 'em a pat on the butt and say have a nice life... what's left of it.

I don't understand how ObolaCare will cover smoking related illness when anybody that is older than 15 that has the ability to read knows that it will kill you. And yes, I realize that that is a very slippery slope... but so is the rest of ObolaCare...
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Can't wrap my head around anyone with any sort of intelligence smoking cigarettes. I'm glad that we have the freedom to use them though, wish it was like that for every drug.
 
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#209
#209
BeecherVol said:
I agree with quiet a bit of this.

I have watched this video several times and Im still in shock that the guy died from that altercation.
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The critics have seized on the choke hold because its the easiest thing to go after as it was against policy. But, if you watch the video that does not appear to be the problem. I'm no doctor. For all I know he crushed his windpipe. I would think we would have heard that if that were the case, but I'm just going off what I see.
 
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#210
#210
#VFL__ said:
Can't wrap my head around anyone with any sort of intelligence smoking cigarettes. I'm glad that we have the freedom to use them though, wish it was like that for every drug.
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Some of the most interesting encounters I've ever had begin with "Hey, man. Can I get a cigarette?"

I've met several women I'd eventually copulate with via cigarettes.

I've had some deeply insightful conversations whilst smoking outside of bars.

It's great with a drink.

It's great after sex.

Life is short.

Need any more reasons?
 
#211
#211
#VFL__ said:
Can't wrap my head around anyone with any sort of intelligence smoking cigarettes. I'm glad that we have the freedom to use them though, wish it was like that for every drug.
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I draw the line at Crack, heroin, and meth.

Anyway, after another look at things I'm willing to keep a more open minded perspective.
 
#212
#212
DinkinFlicka said:
Some of the most interesting encounters I've ever had begin with "Hey, man. Can I get a cigarette?"

I've met several women I'd eventually copulate with via cigarettes.

I've had some deeply insightful conversations whilst smoking outside of bars.

It's great with a drink.

It's great after sex.

Life is short.

Need any more reasons?
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You could replace all those with MJ and id agree. Yep and life gets really short once you become a regular smoker. Killing yourself slowly is fine with me honestly. Like I said, when your 60ish and about ready die from a lung related illness most would probably trade cigs for another couple of years. I know my grandmother wishes she wouldn't have but not everyone is the same. Keith Richards is still kicking it so you have hope. Haha I do enjoy hearing the "life is short" line though. I apply that to my life daily.
 
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#213
#213
lawgator1 said:
The critics have seized on the choke hold because its the easiest thing to go after as it was against policy. But, if you watch the video that does not appear to be the problem. I'm no doctor. For all I know he crushed his windpipe. I would think we would have heard that if that were the case, but I'm just going off what I see.
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I thought the audio was intriguing in regards to that part as well.

It was odd, it just didn't look like that action would have killed him.

I heard some commentary on the choke hold from a former cop that explained it this way (paraphrasing) He first explained that he had also had some experience in MMA cage fighting. Basically, when cage fighting the reason why you tap on choke holds is because many times you are unable to "vocally" tap out.

That is probably not 100% true in all cases, but I found it interesting.
 
#214
#214
BeecherVol said:
I thought the audio was intriguing in regards to that part as well.

It was odd, it just didn't look like that action would have killed him.

I heard some commentary on the choke hold from a former cop that explained it this way (paraphrasing) He first explained that he had also had some experience in MMA cage fighting. Basically, when cage fighting the reason why you tap on choke holds is because many times you are unable to "vocally" tap out.

That is probably not 100% true in all cases, but I found it interesting.
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That's one of the reasons why earlier I put "choke hold" in quotes. It doesn't look like a hold, i.e. restraining him with arms around the neck. Rather, it appears that each of the officers was grabbing at him trying to take him down and the guy was so huge that it was all the one officer could do to take him down. That is, he grabbed what he could get his arm around, and that was his neck. He did not, it appears to me, restrain him using what i traditionally think of when using the term "choke hold."

Dumb? Yes, probably. Criminal? Meh. THE cause of death? Doesn't look like it to me.

I'm really reluctant to buy into the "choke hold" label based on what I see.
 
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#215
#215
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#217
#217
I hate it that Garner died. The absurd Liberal taxes on cigarettes has gotten the Gangs into the cigarette business.

Garner had already been arrested before for selling illegal cigarettes. He was out of jail on a $2,000 bond.

Garner lied to the police about his name.
Garner had marijuana in his car.

Unlike, Brown, Garner was not a Saint.
 
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#218
#218
Franklin Pierce said:
I hate it that Garner died. The absurd Liberal taxes on cigarettes has gotten the Gangs into the cigarette business.

Garner had already been arrested before for selling illegal cigarettes. He was out of jail on a $2,000 bond.

Garner lied to the police about his name.
Garner had marijuana in his car.

Unlike, Brown, Garner was not a Saint.
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Garner had 30+ arrests on his record.
 
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#219
#219
#VFL__ said:
Can't wrap my head around anyone with any sort of intelligence smoking cigarettes. I'm glad that we have the freedom to use them though, wish it was like that for every drug.
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Yeah, I can't wrap my head around it either.
DinkinFlicka said:
Some of the most interesting encounters I've ever had begin with "Hey, man. Can I get a cigarette?"

I've met several women I'd eventually copulate with via cigarettes.

I've had some deeply insightful conversations whilst smoking outside of bars.

It's great with a drink.

It's great after sex.

Life is short.

Need any more reasons?
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I'm guessing you have a chest made for a rib spreader. And it takes a real man to beat cancer.
 
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