ESPN media bias at it again

#27
#27
bamawriter said:
Barnett played 34% more snaps than Allen despite Allen playing an extra game.
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Makes it more impressive for Barnett, the guy never got to rest, and was being double teamed most of the time.

There was even a few instances where he was triple teamed.

You can admit that Barnett should have won.
 
#29
#29
bamawriter said:
Barnett played 34% more snaps than Allen despite Allen playing an extra game.
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and Allen played on loaded team and had all types of help. Barnett had to do all the work himself. for instance Bama's two turnovers against us were both by Barnett, FF and interception.

Bama's DBs don't fall down and can cover keeping the ball in the QBs hands. Bama's LB's can contain and pressure flushing people back to Allen. Barnett had neither of those.
 
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#30
#30
LouderVol said:
and Allen played on loaded team and had all types of help. Barnett had to do all the work himself. for instance Bama's two turnovers against us were both by Barnett, FF and interception.

Bama's DBs don't fall down and can cover keeping the ball in the QBs hands. Bama's LB's can contain and pressure flushing people back to Allen. Barnett had neither of those.
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The flipside to that argument is that Barnett had no one else on his line to steal his stats.
 
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#31
#31
it is a shame that the national position awards are becoming like the Heisman (Hypesman). Its not the best player in the country, its simply the best player on the best team.
 
#33
#33
LouderVol said:
it is a shame that the national position awards are becoming like the Heisman (Hypesman). Its not the best player in the country, its simply the best player on the best team.
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If Allen played at UT and Barnett played at Bama then Barnett would have won, probably would have had a few more sacks too.
 
#34
#34
bamawriter said:
The flipside to that argument is that Barnett had no one else on his line to steal his stats.
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Corey Vereen had some pretty decent stats himself.

cfbstats.com - Corey Vereen 2016 Player Statistics - Tennessee Volunteers

1 FR
35 Tackles
10.5 TFL
6 Sacks
3 PBU
4 QBH


honestly a lot of those came from Derek Barnett pushing things to Vereen, but DB wasn't the only producer.

lets put is this way do you think Allen would have produced as much as DB if you flipped their teams? I would say DBs stats get dumb playing for Bama. dumb as in a lot more production from the nations most productive DE.
 
#35
#35
jcv0010 said:
If Allen played at UT and Barnett played at Bama then Barnett would have won, probably would have had a few more sacks too.
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lol, didn't see this.

and further, the stats we care about with DEs are the explosive plays, sacks, TFLs and QBH. Those aren't going to be helped a lot by staying out there the whole game. its why most teams have a package for third and long and rotate guys who are fresh so they can run. DB could run the whole game, and produced against the best competition (SEC not the App States on our schedule *cough* Miles Garett *cough*)
 
#36
#36
jcv0010 said:
If Allen played at UT and Barnett played at Bama then Barnett would have won, probably would have had a few more sacks too.
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LouderVol said:
lets put is this way do you think Allen would have produced as much as DB if you flipped their teams? I would say DBs stats get dumb playing for Bama. dumb as in a lot more production from the nations most productive DE.
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But see, therein lies the issue.

I said before the TSIO that if someone wanted to argue that Barnett would be the best player on the field I wouldn't say a word against it. I still mean that. Barnett is an incredible talent.

But, fair or unfair, a player on the 109th ranked defense is not going to win any POY awards.
 
#37
#37
bamawriter said:
But see, therein lies the issue.

I said before the TSIO that if someone wanted to argue that Barnett would be the best player on the field I wouldn't say a word against it. I still mean that. Barnett is an incredible talent.

But, fair or unfair, a player on the 109th ranked defense is not going to win any POY awards.
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Why not though? It's PLAYER of the year awards, not TEAM awards.
 
#38
#38
jcv0010 said:
Why not though? It's PLAYER of the year awards, not TEAM awards.
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Because stats alone don't tell the story.

As an example, AJ Johnson led the SEC in tackles in 2012. The defense he played on was the football equivalent of a flaming bag of dog crap on Derek Dooley's front porch. Did Johnson's stats make him the best defensive player, or even the best linebacker, in the SEC?
 
#39
#39
bamawriter said:
Because stats alone don't tell the story.

As an example, AJ Johnson led the SEC in tackles in 2012. The defense he played on was the football equivalent of a flaming bag of dog crap on Derek Dooley's front porch. Did Johnson's stats make him the best defensive player, or even the best linebacker, in the SEC?
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Not even close to a fair comparison.

AJ Johnson would have never been a top 10 draft pick, and leading in tackles is not the same as sacks, tfl's, etc.
 
#40
#40
This is one of the worst Heisman years in my lifetime. No one went out there and took it.
 
#43
#43
bamawriter said:
Not sure this is helpful for your argument. If Allen goes before Barnett in the draft, does that lend legitimacy to this award?
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You're missing my point, but to answer your question no.

They are both special talents and will be 1st round picks.

Barnett had the better year though.

Edit: not that it matters but he had the better career as well
 
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#44
#44
jcv0010 said:
Barnett had the better year though.

Edit: not that it matters but he had the better career as well
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Disagree with the former but agree with the latter.

Just a heads up, I have a feeling you're going to have disagreements with some of the all-conference teams that are starting to come out.
 
#46
#46
rename it the Michigan DB award...

Peppers is a good player, nothing else.
 
#47
#47
bamawriter said:
Disagree with the former but agree with the latter.

Just a heads up, I have a feeling you're going to have disagreements with some of the all-conference teams that are starting to come out.
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I'm sure I will but oh well. It's political and has nothing to do with who the best players are.

Edit: How did Allen have a better year?
 
#48
#48
jcv0010 said:
I'm sure I will but oh well. It's political and has nothing to do with who the best players are.

Edit: How did Allen have a better year?
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The good news is that Barnett's on pretty much all of them.

ETA: Allen was the the leader of, and best player on, the best defense in the country. He was great against the pass, and unbeatable against the run. He also has two touchdowns.
 
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#49
#49
bamawriter said:
The good news is that Barnett's on pretty much all of them.

ETA: Allen was the the leader of, and best player on, the best defense in the country. He was great against the pass, and unbeatable against the run. He also has two touchdowns.
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Is Allen better than Barnett?

At the beginning of the season would you have traded Allen for Barnett if it were possible?

If you looked directly at the stats and removed the names and teams 10 times out of 10 anyone would choose Barnett.

Do you not think it is advantageous for a player to play on the best defense in the country and quite possibly of all time?

How do you think Barnett would perform on that defense when teams wouldn't have the luxury of double and triple teaming him?

This is my problem with Alabama fans. I live in AL so I've had plenty of discussions with the Tide faithful and 99% of the time their fans lack the ability to be objective even on something small.
 
#50
#50
jcv0010 said:
Is Allen better than Barnett?
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Better? I don't believe so. Allen is, however, more deserving of the award for 2016.

At the beginning of the season would you have traded Allen for Barnett if it were possible?
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No, but it's not because I think Barnett isn't the better player. Allen fits Bama's scheme better than Barnett because he's 25 pounds bigger, can move inside, and is much stouter against the run. In a 4 down linemen front, I absolutely go with Barnett.

If you looked directly at the stats and removed the names and teams 10 times out of 10 anyone would choose Barnett.
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If I'm voting for an award or an All-America team I'm going to look at the stats for his defense. The only positions where team stats are irrelevant are punter and kicker.

Do you not think it is advantageous for a player to play on the best defense in the country and quite possibly of all time?
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Of course it is.

How do you think Barnett would perform on that defense when teams wouldn't have the luxury of double and triple teaming him?
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Create an award for the guy who would hypothetically perform best on a hypothetical team, give me a vote, and I'll cast it for Barnett.

This is my problem with Alabama fans. I live in AL and even attended Auburn University, so I've had plenty of discussions with the Tide faithful and 99% of the time their fans lack the ability to be objective even on something small.
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And I'm sure it's not at all possible for you to lack objectivity.
 
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