EVALUATING FULMER

[CSpindizzy]

To Liper or someone else with the quick stats access....

Let's try this. Let's go a different route on records. Let's determine when the last year the football team probably lost ANY influence of Cutcliffe...I mean recruiting, mentality, style, discipline, etc. Just pick 2001 on and see what the record was and who we lost to. Did we just beat the predictables and lose to the big boys every time?

 

[jakez4ut]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 6:53 PM
It has evened out some.  But most of those teams you cite fired their coaches or still suck.  No one puts up with continual mediocrity.

If Saban stays at LSU, he makes a big run.

FL lost their coach.

GA hired Richt.

BAMA sucks.

AUB hired Borges and almost fired Tinkerbell

TN and FL have come down.  The others have come up.

TN is a borderline top 20 program right now.

[snapback]195117[/snapback]​

Yes TN and FL have come down, i agree 100%. But do you want to go thru what UGA went thru with Ray Goff, Jim Donnan? talk about mediocracy. Or what Bama went thru with Dubose, Franchione and Price? talk about bad.
FL lost their coach? OK. They "lost" him. what did they find? Zook? was that answer? oh, and how has Meyer done this year? Oh yeah, they beat TN and UGA! Yippie! I guess that's why he's cried after two other games that they got their ass handed to them in...

Auburn...ahh, now that's interesting...had to go thru the Terry Bowden experiment...that worked out well didn't it? and Tubberville finally wised up (as Fulmer should do as well) and got a real coach in Borges.

And LSU...i agree there, but Saban didn't stay...did he? And look what they went thru to get to him? Mike Archer??? are you kidding me??

fine. Fire Fulmer. it's definitely the right thin to do. Because everytime there's a coaching change it POSITIVELY affects recruiting. it immediately results in an SEC championship and NC contention. Works everytime, there's plenty of precedents out there to prove it.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Did Fulmer WIN the East or did everyone else lose MORE than we did?

 

[smokedog#3]

i have no clue. i would love to see the team actually be watchable again. they have been ugly the last 4 to 5 years. he needs to go, but we will probably have to wait for them to throw atleast one more year away before the boosters finally say it is enough. by the way jake since 98 no SEC CHAMPIONSHIPS, NO BCS games, NO NC"S, nothing except citris and peach for us. he won't in my opinion turn things around he needs to go.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 18, 2005 6:02 PM
Fire Fulmer.  it's definitely the right thin to do.  Because everytime there's a coaching change it POSITIVELY affects recruiting.  it immediately results in an SEC championship and NC contention.  Works everytime, there's plenty of precedents out there to prove it.

[snapback]195130[/snapback]​

I'm not sure I understand your point.

And I do not advocate the firing of Foulmer.

 

[bleedingorange]

Originally posted by smokedog#3@Nov 18, 2005 6:03 PM
i have no clue.  i would love to see the team actually be watchable again.  they have been ugly the last 4 to 5 years.  he needs to go,  but we will probably have to wait for them to throw atleast one more year away before the boosters finally say it is enough.  by the way jake since 98 no SEC CHAMPIONSHIPS,  NO BCS games, NO NC"S, nothing except citris and peach for us.  he won't in my opinion turn things around he needs to go.

[snapback]195133[/snapback]​

:dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Liper]

Gentlemen,

I think there is something in the stats that needs to be pointed out:

EGG LAYING

These egg lays are not losses. They are those excruciating games that make you want to throw something through your TV because we look so bad it appears that we do not practice during the week. Those games that make the phone lines light up and demand people are fired. Those are egg lays.

No go back and look at how many of those we have had to endure and tell me the last season we didn;t have one.

 

[smokedog#3]

hey liper they have those bricks that are soft and you won't hurt your tv, i have a bunch of them. what really sucks is when your at the game that they are laying the egg, all you can do is drink and be disappointed

 

[bleedingorange]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 6:07 PM
Gentlemen,

I think there is something in the stats that needs to be pointed out:

EGG LAYING

These egg lays are not losses.  They are those excruciating games that make you want to throw something through your TV because we look so bad it appears that we do not practice during the week.  Those games that make the phone lines light up and demand people are fired.  Those are egg lays.

No go back and look at how many of those we have had to endure and tell me the last season we didn;t have one.

[snapback]195137[/snapback]​

Liper other than the Cotton Bowl last year when was the last time we played a complete game on both sides of the ball.

 

[jakez4ut]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 7:04 PM
I'm not sure I understand your point.

And I do not advocate the firing of Foulmer.

[snapback]195135[/snapback]​

My point is by reading all of these posts, you'd think Fulmer was the scourge of the 21st century. He gets absolutely no credit win they do well as someone so eloquently put it "did we win the East or did everyone else lose more", but all the blame when they do bad...

Point to a situation over the past 10 years where a guy gets hired at any school, and it immediately impacts the program postively in the SEC? Nationally? Pete Carroll USC and Charlie Weiss ND?

What the hell would it take to please everyone? yes this team sucks. Yes, Fulmer is part of the problem. But he ISN'T the ONLY problem. Simply saying Fulmer is over rated or that he's a bad coach or whatever doesn't solve the problem. And by stating those things, one has to assume that if he is that bad, that you'd want a change.

And if so...............

Again....................

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT COULD DO BETTER OVER THE NEXT 14 YEARS!!!!???? I want names. If he's so bad, then you better have someone a whole lot better.

 

[smokedog#3]

butch davis. i think we should start all over bring him in and let him mold the team. we are going nowhere fast anyway. if we are going to rebuild, we need to do it with anew coach. great recruiter, hard worker, offense never looked bad. he has my vote, i think he could turn us around. he is also hungry, looking to prove himself after what happened in cleveland.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 18, 2005 6:13 PM
Point to a situation over the past 10 years where a guy gets hired at any school, and it immediately impacts the program postively in the SEC?  Nationally?  Pete Carroll USC and Charlie Weiss ND? 

Yes, Fulmer is part of the problem.  But he ISN'T the ONLY problem. 

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT COULD DO BETTER OVER THE NEXT 14 YEARS!!!!????  I want names.  If he's so bad, then you better have someone a whole lot better.

[snapback]195141[/snapback]​

1. Richt (GA), Spurrier (FL), Saban (LSU), Holtz (SC), Stoops (OK), M. Brown (TX), Tressell (OSU), Wies (ND), Carroll (USC), Borges (AUB), Mason (MINN), Tedford (CAL), and I'm sure we could come up with some more.

2. Fulmer's problem is that he's stubborn and won't make staff changes. He and Mack Brown are the same: recruit but can't coach. They need great staffs to be successful.

3. I though I said we shouldn't fire Foulmer yet.

The reason I go to such lengths to point out both our decline and the wholes in Foulmer's record is because there are so many sheep out there that refuse to acknowledge the things that bring about 5 and 6 loss seasons. In other words, many just fluff it off and say he has the best win%. Refusal to evaluate the complete set of facts is an afront to my sensibilties.

 

[bleedingorange]

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT COULD DO BETTER OVER THE NEXT 14 YEARS!!!!???
[/quote]
1. ANYBODY THAT TEACHES DISCIPLINE
2. ANYBODY THAT MOTIVATES PLAYERS
3. ANYBODY THAT WILL SIT PLAYERS ASSES ON THE BENCH WHEN THEY CONTINUE TO SCREW UP
4. ANYBODY THAT WILL TEACH XS AND OS
5. ANYBODY THAT WILL DEVELOP PLAYERS
6. I GUESS I JUST DEFINED WHAT A COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACH IS SUPPOSED TO DO.
7. I GUESS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ANYBODY OTHER THAN WHAT WE GOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by smokedog#3@Nov 18, 2005 6:11 PM
hey liper they have those bricks that are soft and you won't hurt your tv,  i have a bunch of them.  what really sucks is when your at the game that they are laying the egg, all you can do is drink and be disappointed

[snapback]195138[/snapback]​

I'm usually at the games since we get blown out at home a lot.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by smokedog#3@Nov 18, 2005 5:54 PM
i agree liper this shows the downward trend to the program.  fulmer is the most overated coach in the country.  he gets his winning percentage by beating up on vandy, kentucky, la monroe. he plays that card all the time along with the NC.  there are better coaches out there we just need to go get them.

[snapback]195118[/snapback]​

Fulmer may or not be ove , but to say that he gets his winning % by beating up on Vandy, UK, and cupcakes is quite the exaggeration. UT plays a lot less cupcake games than plenty of other top programs. Beating Vandy, UK, and an occasional weak out of conference team do not add up to a near 80% winning record. UT plays GA, FLA, and Bama every year along with at least one other tough game from the west and usually a very good non SEC opponent. It makes it hard to take your arguments seriously when you make such ridiculous accusations.

 

[U-T]

10 wins in 3 of those listed above....poor record?

Poor record?

Good lord, no wonder people call are fans crazy. I am starting to agree with them

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by U-T@Nov 18, 2005 6:45 PM
10 wins in 3 of those listed above....poor record?

Poor record?

Good lord, no wonder people call are fans crazy. I am starting to agree with them

[snapback]195174[/snapback]​

Who said that? I've not seen anyone make that remark.

 

[U-T]

Did you read what you wrote in the first post?

poor record?

UT hasn't won the SEC in quite awhile but my goodness, we are still winning overall at a rate that is one of the best in the country.

Since 2000, we have won at the same rate as FSU and VATech

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 6:23 PM
1. Richt (GA), Spurrier (FL), Saban (LSU), Holtz (SC), Stoops (OK), M. Brown (TX), Tressell (OSU), Wies (ND), Carroll (USC), Borges (AUB), Mason (MINN), Tedford (CAL), and I'm sure we could come up with some more.

2. Fulmer's problem is that he's stubborn and won't make staff changes.  He and Mack Brown are the same: recruit but can't coach.  They need great staffs to be successful.

3. I though I said we shouldn't fire Foulmer yet.

The reason I go to such lengths to point out both our decline and the wholes in Foulmer's record is because there are so many sheep out there that refuse to acknowledge the things that bring about 5 and 6 loss seasons.  In other words, many just fluff it off and say he has the best win%.  Refusal to evaluate the complete set of facts is an afront to my sensibilties.

[snapback]195146[/snapback]​

First of all, you name mack brown as a coach who would do better but in the same post you say he and Fulmer are the same. And what has Brown done exactly? I will give you visor boy and Saban, but you continue to make comparisons based only on the last 5 years for Fulmer compared to coaches who have not been at thier respective programs long enough to make a fair comparison. Richt has had a ton of talent and not much to show for it(last year they were the favorite in the SEC) Weis is in his first year, Willingham actually had a better start, Carroll has not been around long enough to make a fair comparison(they are bound to go through a slump) Borges is not even a head coach, Stoops is a good coach but even they suck this year, Minn. has not been a top 10 team, Tedford is another good coach but again, not proven over the long haul. You insist on basing your arguments solely on the last 5 years for CPF, yet if I hand picked the best 5 consecutive seasons under Fulmer he would look better than most on your list. Fulmer is making changes and if they don't work then let's have the Fulmer conversation in another year or two. What exactly is it that you want? You claim you do not want him fired just yet, but continue to attempt to prove Fulmer is a bad coach.

 

[U-T]

Richt has had a ton of talent and not much to show for it(last year they were the favorite in the SEC)

Go figure

3 East Titles in the last 4 years and nothing to show for it.

WOW.... :dunno:

 

[holdemvol]

oops

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 3:42 PM
P.S. 9 and 10 win seasons are not what they used to be.  When you play 11 games, they are great.  When you play 13, they are not as much.

P.P.S. In a 13 game season, 10 wins is a .769 winning%.  That isn't terrible, but a great season it is not.

[snapback]195032[/snapback]​

Here's what I said...

My statement was not a diatribe against 10 win seasons. But you can make a lot of mistakes these days and win 10 because we are playing more games.

I stand by my remarks above. Which part do you disagree with? Where did I say that was a poor record?

 

[checkerboard_charly]

no team stays on top forever. no one.

all these top teams have struggled. every friggin one. hell 4 years ago usc was a joke.


give it time u guys. this is tennessee, and we will be fine. just love ur team and be happy through the good and the bad.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 18, 2005 6:23 PM
1. Richt (GA), Spurrier (FL), Saban (LSU), Holtz (SC), Stoops (OK), M. Brown (TX), Tressell (OSU), Wies (ND), Carroll (USC), Borges (AUB), Mason (MINN), Tedford (CAL), and I'm sure we could come up with some more.

2. Fulmer's problem is that he's stubborn and won't make staff changes.  He and Mack Brown are the same: recruit but can't coach.  They need great staffs to be successful.

3. I though I said we shouldn't fire Foulmer yet.

The reason I go to such lengths to point out both our decline and the wholes in Foulmer's record is because there are so many sheep out there that refuse to acknowledge the things that bring about 5 and 6 loss seasons.  In other words, many just fluff it off and say he has the best win%.  Refusal to evaluate the complete set of facts is an afront to my sensibilties.

[snapback]195146[/snapback]​

First of all, you name mack brown as a coach who would do better but in the same post you say he and Fulmer are the same. And what has Brown done exactly? I will give you visor boy and Saban, but you continue to make comparisons based only on the last 5 years for Fulmer compared to coaches who have not been at thier respective programs long enough to make a fair comparison. Richt has had a ton of talent and not much to show for it(last year they were the favorite in the SEC) Weis is in his first year, Willingham actually had a better start, Carroll has not been around long enough to make a fair comparison(they are bound to go through a slump) Borges is not even a head coach, Stoops is a good coach but even they suck this year, Minn. has not been a top 10 team, Tedford is another good coach but again, not proven over the long haul. Lou Holtz?!? Are you serious? That had to have been a joke, amd a good one at that. You insist on basing your arguments solely on the last 5 years for CPF, yet if I hand picked the best 5 consecutive seasons under Fulmer he would look better than most on your list. Fulmer is making changes and if they don't work then let's have the Fulmer conversation in another year or two. What exactly is it that you want? You claim you do not want him fired just yet, but continue to attempt to prove Fulmer is a bad coach.

 

[U-T]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 18, 2005 6:00 PM
Richt has had a ton of talent and not much to show for it(last year they were the favorite in the SEC)

Go figure

3 East Titles in the last 4 years and nothing to show for it.

WOW.... :dunno: