Executive Orders

#51
#51
RockyTop85 said:
They actually ruled that the Trump Admin has failed to correctly follow the Administrative Procedures Act when they undid DACA. Lower courts had told them the same thing and had offered them a road map for how to undo it, correctly. They chose not to follow that guidance, for some reason. Basically, the Trump Administration was too incompetent to undo DACA, but if they made a competent attempt, it would be undone.

As far as I know, they just have to issue a memo that complies with the APA. Shouldn’t take more than a few hours for some government lawyer to draft. I have no idea why they haven’t done so, already.

I don’t think it should have mattered. The Court should have said the procedure for passing DACA was unconstitutional so the procedure for purging it was immaterial. The better policy would be to make these XOs as unappealing and impermanent as possible so that supporters of the party that abdicated their responsibility to get the order will realize that they can’t actually have what they want without recognizing that the other side isn’t evil and working together with them.
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I think he did it to to show his base he was serious all while not doing anything. While Trump probably doesn't understand how the law works, you can bet the White House lawyers do. He wants immigration as a wedge issue just as much as the Democrats do. IMO .
 
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#52
#52
Sandman 423 said:
I think he did it to to show his base he was serious all while not doing anything. While Trump probably doesn't understand how the law works, you can bet the White lawyers do. He wants immigration as a wedge issue just as much as the Democrats do. IMO .
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That’s my assumption as well. Particularly after they made so much cheese off the Caravans in 2018.
 
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#53
#53
hog88 said:
The difference is the President is not your representative and you don’t vote for him.
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I have a grasp on Thornton. The difference you cited really isn't the game changer. However, if Congress passed the law, as opposed to individual states, I am not sure that case would go down the same way with today's court. The Thornton Court was really concerned with national uniformity and if Congress established term limits for itself then the that concern goes away. Also, a Constitutional Amendment would be just fine with me.
 
#55
#55
ClearwaterVol said:
I have a grasp on Thornton. The difference you cited really isn't the game changer. However, if Congress passed the law, as opposed to individual states, I am not sure that case would go down the same way with today's court. The Thornton Court was really concerned with national uniformity and if Congress established term limits for itself then the that concern goes away. Also, a Constitutional Amendment would be just fine with me.
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It would take a constitutional amendment like the 22nd and if one were passed I'd be ok with it. Without a CA any law could be repealed at anytime, like if one party had all 3 houses and a majority were reaching term.
 
#56
#56
hog88 said:
It would take a constitutional amendment like the 22nd and if one were passed I'd be ok with it. Without a CA any law could be repealed at anytime, like if one party had all 3 houses and a majority were reaching term.
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It could happen, but I would take a law right now.
 
#62
#62
RockyTop85 said:
And fwiw, I’m not unsympathetic to DACA recipients. I think DACA would have been fine as legislation. I’m not callous to the hardship that rescinding it would place on its recipients.

I just think that governing by “pen and phone“ has broken our representative system and the bandaid needs to come off.
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It’s ridiculous to assume the right solution is to take a bunch of young people who have known nothing but America their whole lives and say sorry you’re not welcome. That is holding them accountable for the sins of their parents. I don’t agree with that and I want to see real reconciliation for them.

But... laws were broken by their parents and they shouldn’t be rewarded in my opinion. That sends a completely wrong message. And on immigration laws in general either enforce them or vacate them.

DACA resolves nothing for these young people. If anything it made them even more of a political token to play for both parties which have leveraged them. And that is wrong too.
 
#63
#63
RockyTop85 said:
And fwiw, I’m not unsympathetic to DACA recipients. I think DACA would have been fine as legislation. I’m not callous to the hardship that rescinding it would place on its recipients.

I just think that governing by “pen and phone“ has broken our representative system and the bandaid needs to come off.
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We need imagination reform in the worst way. congress Needs to get its ass to work
 
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#64
#64
hog88 said:
I view what you want to do like I do Luther's wish to limit what guns I can own.
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Not a fan of hookers and blow, got it.

I am fine with all that when it comes to private citizens. But once elected they enter a different realm as some sort of public representative, leader, figure.

Like with Trump, he used his businesses to make him lits of money. Good on him. He steps into office he needs to divest himself of those opportunities. Same with these bribes and election standards, once elected you arent a citizen anymore.

And if the politicians operated like they should as temporary representatives doing a public service they could now out after a couple terms go back to their life and then profit from whatever deals. But these guys arent leaving office and are directly profiting from their position, itsno wonder they dont leave. And it's no wonder they dont fix anything. Bring them back to earth would be a good way to start fixing things.
 
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#65
#65
LouderVol said:
Not a fan of hookers and blow, got it.

I am fine with all that when it comes to private citizens. But once elected they enter a different realm as some sort of public representative, leader, figure.

Like with Trump, he used his businesses to make him lits of money. Good on him. He steps into office he needs to divest himself of those opportunities. Same with these bribes and election standards, once elected you arent a citizen anymore.

And if the politicians operated like they should as temporary representatives doing a public service they could now out after a couple terms go back to their life and then profit from whatever deals. But these guys arent leaving office and are directly profiting from their position, itsno wonder they dont leave. And it's no wonder they dont fix anything. Bring them back to earth would be a good way to start fixing things.
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Then you need to get working on an amendment to the constitution because none of that would fly without it.

Never did the blow so.....
 
#67
#67
RockyTop85 said:
They actually ruled that the Trump Admin has failed to correctly follow the Administrative Procedures Act when they undid DACA. Lower courts had told them the same thing and had offered them a road map for how to undo it, correctly. They chose not to follow that guidance, for some reason. Basically, the Trump Administration was too incompetent to undo DACA, but if they made a competent attempt, it would be undone.

As far as I know, they just have to issue a memo that complies with the APA. Shouldn’t take more than a few hours for some government lawyer to draft. I have no idea why they haven’t done so, already.

I don’t think it should have mattered. The Court should have said the procedure for passing DACA was unconstitutional so the procedure for purging it was immaterial. The better policy would be to make these XOs as unappealing and impermanent as possible so that supporters of the party that abdicated their responsibility to get the order will realize that they can’t actually have what they want without recognizing that the other side isn’t evil and working together with them.
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How was Obama able to sign DACA EO in the first place and more importantly why should his successor be unable to undo it without jumping through hoops?
 
#69
#69
ajvol01 said:
How was Obama able to sign DACA EO in the first place and more importantly why should his successor be unable to undo it without jumping through hoops?
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What do you mean “how was Obama able?” He used his pen and his phone. It’s the exact same thing Trump has done with many of his executive orders or administrative memoranda: sign something that’s probably going to be declared unlawful and wait for it to be challenged. The challenges were slow in coming and got put on pause because of the Trump admin’s attempts to rescind it.

As for why he can’t just rescind it, I don’t practice administrative law and I don’t remember what Roberts’ reasoning was. I didn’t think it made good legal sense to require Trump to follow the law to rescind something that was probably an illegal action in the first place and I don’t think it’s good policy to lend any kind of semi-permanence to executive orders.
 
#70
#70
RockyTop85 said:
What do you mean “how was Obama able?” He used his pen and his phone. It’s the exact same thing Trump has done with many of his executive orders or administrative memoranda: sign something that’s probably going to be declared unlawful and wait for it to be challenged. The challenges were slow in coming and got put on pause because of the Trump admin’s attempts to rescind it.

As for why he can’t just rescind it, I don’t practice administrative law and I don’t remember what Roberts’ reasoning was. I didn’t think it made good legal sense to require Trump to follow the law to rescind something that was probably an illegal action in the first place and I don’t think it’s good policy to lend any kind of semi-permanence to executive orders.
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And he even said it was not legal when he signed it.
 
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