Face it, we suck at picking head coaches

#27
#27
I like what Heupel is doing so far he’s done a very good so far. But I would take Saban, Urban and Kirby Smart over him
 
#28
#28
Ohio Vol said:
I think the only time one of us on here got a coaching hire right was back in 2006, when the great Hatvol96 said that if Nick Saban became available, he should be pursued at any cost. That was probably in October or November of 2006, when the Vols were 6-1 or 7-1 and only had a one-point loss to Florida as the blemish.

The thought was unthinkable, what with Saban struggling in Miami, UT under Fulmer still contending and winning 9-10 games a year, and there not being any pressing need to make a switch. But he was adamant.
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That guy was a mf’r but he was usually right.
 
#30
#30
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. They're good at this. Meanwhile, we've proven we collectively suck at it.

Honestly, raise your hand if you were looking hard at Josh Heupel as our next head coach before Dan White started his coaching search. I don't think there's a single post in any thread in all of vn.com that says, back at that time period, "hey we oughta go get the Heup!"

And yet, he's proving to be a far, far better coach than the names we were tossing around.

Here's the evidence:

Jon Gruden (fired) -- I loved, absolutely loved, the Gruden threads and that gang of fellow fans. Hanging out with them for that month or so was the most fun volnation.com has ever been. Just really, really enjoyable to be around. Nonetheless, Jon Gruden wasn't and isn't the answer. No matter how much a significant segment of us wanted him. Verdict: not a championship coach, not even a college coach.

Mike Leach (5-4) -- The fella is entertaining, absolutely gotta admit that. He's a hoot. But we don't hire head coaches for their stand-up routine. As a coach, the Pirate will never be competing for championships. He's good. Far from great. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Hugh Freeze (7-3) -- Even putting aside his questionable values (which we shouldn't), that 7-3 record is all beating up on scrub teams like Old Dominion and MTSU, then losing to any team with a pulse and a bit of talent. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Gus Malzahn (6-3) -- Ditto the remarks about all the wins being to scrubs. Lost to Navy, yes Navy. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Lane Kiffin (7-2) -- Along with Harbaugh, Kiffin does find success on the field. But also like Harbaugh, Lane will never get over the last hump to championships. Why not? His character. He can't get out of the way of his mouth, or his flighty nature. Will he stay long at Ole Miss? Doubtful. He'll do well enough there, maybe--maybe--to raise his value to point where it's worth overlooking his childish nature and get hired at a true blue blood program one day. Where he will promptly become Harbaugh 2.0. Always just a game or two away from making the conference championship match. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Dan Mullen (4-5) -- lotta folks on these boards wanted him, at one time or another. But he's weird. He has weird values. He and his wife give off a weird vibe. He's no leader, can't keep a locker room behind him. He can't recruit worth a spit, and doesn't even seem to want to try very hard. At this point, you have to question even his "quarterback whisperer" reputation. Should he really get credit for Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Dak Prescott, and Chris Leak? Is this, perhaps instead, a case of Butch Jones lucking out with naturally talented Josh Dobbs, times four? Mullen didn't recruit Leak, who was already at Florida. Dan may have had a minor role in recruiting Tebow, but that was 90% the lure of Urban Meyer as head coach. Similarly, Alex Smith was already at Utah when Mullen arrived. In fact, Dak Prescott is the only noteworthy quarterback for whom Mullen gets all (well, a lot) of the credit. So how much did he develop them and harness their skill sets, and how much did he just luck out for them being naturally gifted? One has to wonder. Anyway, overall Verdict: not a championship coach.

Justin Fuente (4-5) -- Remember when Justin was the hot commodity so many on these boards wanted? Yeah. Not a championship coach.

And none of us wanted him (we emphatically did not), but just for old Kirk Herbstreit's edification, I'll add to the tail end of the list...

Greg Schiano (4-5) -- Rutgers isn't in the Big East any more, and this fellow is not a good enough coach to be in the B10 (much less the SEC). Again, not even addressing some potentially significant values issues. Verdict: most certainly not a championship coach.

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Honest question: who here would trade Josh Heupel for any of these coaches? Even, say, Harbaugh?

I sure wouldn't. I think Josh has more potential to be a championship caliber head coach than anyone Vol nation was pulling for in 2020 (or 2017-2018). I like where we are right now.

Go Vols!
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Even if we had lost last night at the end, I agree with everything you said.
 
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#34
#34
BigALWiLson said:
So you go back to hindsight ? I understand that was a head scratcher hire but.... None of what has happened before has any effect NOW. Support your team and stop with the miserable crap and taking shots. They have earned a CHANCE. Slow down stop complaining. If we get rolling with recruiting.... Good lord this team can be a fun viewing. Have you not picked up the positive vibes NATIONAL media is giving Heupel and the job he's done ? Needs time my VOL Brother
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Watched the VT - BC game and announcers were talking about upcoming Bama-LSU and how anything could happen. Announcers mentioned that UT played Bama close for a little over 3 quarters. Then said “I know LSU is not Tennessee but...” Couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
 
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#35
#35
UGA game they were talking how UGA will be tested Next week. We find out if they are as good as advertised basically. I think they are. It means something when your mentioned on a national scale. What's that word again "RELEVANCE" haha. Our identity is we can score in droves. It makes DC's want to jump out of the press box. Now I don't expect to beat Georgia at all... But funny things happen on Saturday's.
 
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#36
#36
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. .

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.
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First off, I’m very happy with Heupel. Glad he is here. But if you had me trade him with anyone on that list, I’d take Harbaugh in a minute. Yes there are points that he has a ceiling. But what no one talks about is his floor. The guy will always have a solid team, recruiting, and stout defense. His offenses are boring but they are mean and ball control.

While his record against the two rivals sucks, it’s very rare that he has a bad season where bowl season is completely out of the question. Last year is an asterisk season for obvious reasons. Take out Covid season where they didn’t play full season, his lowest win season is 8 wins and he’s on the verge of winning 10 games for a 4th time in 7 seasons.

I would kill for those W/L records compared to where we were with Dooley/Butch/Pruitt.

Harbaugh may have a mental block with Ohio State and Michigan State. However at Tennessee the past decade, winning our two rival games of Florida and Georgia (only rivals we actually have won some) haven’t been one of the top goals going into every year. It’s always been fighting for bowl eligibility for basically 9 of the last 11 seasons. How many times have we started threads about next season’s W/L record along lines of “here are the 6 games we should be able to compete in to try for a bowl”

I love Heupel and he’s two recruiting classes away from being able to hold expectations to go toe to toe with Bama and Georgia while Florida is teetering.

Michigan year in and year out doesn’t go into season fighting for bowl eligibility. That’s a given. Harbaugh would not be a popular coach but I have zero doubt that he would win here to where we are competing with a 9-10 win regular season floor more times than not. If Heupel does that after what we had the last decade, God Bless than Man
 
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#37
#37
Clad in Big Orange said:
Lots of encouraging signs from what we see on the field. I'm not getting too carried away with such a small sample size. He did pick Milton over Hooker initially. As has been mentioned, Heupel is going to have to be a genius at roster management in order to take a bigger step forward. And I'm still not convinced the "fast tempo offense/defense on the field a ton" can win at a high level in the SEC. However, I do feel better in year 1 than any of the previous coaches.
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I keep seeing the defense on the field too long thing. Get some 3 and outs and that's not an issue. The issue is we need players who can pass rush on 3rd and long.
 
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#39
#39
Idk about the analysis of Freeze he’s beat Saban a few times. Wouldn’t trade Heupel for any one though.
 
#40
#40
BigALWiLson said:
So you go back to hindsight ? I understand that was a head scratcher hire but.... None of what has happened before has any effect NOW. Support your team and stop with the miserable crap and taking shots. They have earned a CHANCE. Slow down stop complaining. If we get rolling with recruiting.... Good lord this team can be a fun viewing. Have you not picked up the positive vibes NATIONAL media is giving Heupel and the job he's done ? Needs time my VOL Brother
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It wasn’t hindsight when a good portion of UT fans knew it was a terrible hire from day one.

Learn to read. I haven’t criticized the team in this thread. I’m against heaping praise on our administration after barely more than half a season. They most certainly have not earned that.
 
#42
#42
chambers1517 said:
And this year he sucks with superior talent.
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There are a lot of factors that are hard to quantify on championship teams. Team chemistry, field leadership, determination. It’s unreasonable to expect a championship team each year, even with the best of talent.

Clemson is not playing up to their level of talent this year. I hope it puts a serious dent in their program for the near future (same thing happened in Knoxville). But Dabo is a good coach. I’m sure he recognizes what issues he has with this current team.
 
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#43
#43
West Vol said:
Learn to read. I haven’t criticized the team in this thread. I’m against heaping praise on our administration after barely more than half a season. They most certainly have not earned that.
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We are on our way to a 7-5 season, 3rd in the east. How have they not earned it. They locked up Vitello and have brought excitement back to Tennessee. Our Atheletics Programs appear to be more stable than they have ever been. Danny White ran that ship at UCF. He is a great fundraiser. And lets be honest for a second, who did you realistically expect him to go out and hire given the Pruitt situation ?
 
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#44
#44
Im gonna correct myself. They are not more stable than they ever have been. They are more stable than they have been in 15 to 18 years
 
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#45
#45
chambers1517 said:
And this year he sucks with superior talent.
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No. They suck because they finally had a 5 star bust at QB. Quarterback play is the only reason they are where they are at right now. Their team is amazingly similar to the 2005 Tennessee team where we had a top defense in the country but offense was just jekyl and Hyde.

Put it this way- Trevor Lawrence comes back for senior season, they are at worst a 1 loss team but after seeing the game vs Georgia, Lawrence okay would have never been that bad as DJ’s
 
#46
#46
JMSqb11 said:
No. They suck because they finally had a 5 star bust at QB. Quarterback play is the only reason they are where they are at right now. Their team is amazingly similar to the 2005 Tennessee team where we had a top defense in the country but offense was just jekyl and Hyde.

Put it this way- Trevor Lawrence comes back for senior season, they are at worst a 1 loss team but after seeing the game vs Georgia, Lawrence okay would have never been that bad as DJ’s
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Lol keep telling yourself that
 
#49
#49
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. They're good at this. Meanwhile, we've proven we collectively suck at it.

Honestly, raise your hand if you were looking hard at Josh Heupel as our next head coach before Dan White started his coaching search. I don't think there's a single post in any thread in all of vn.com that says, back at that time period, "hey we oughta go get the Heup!"

And yet, he's proving to be a far, far better coach than the names we were tossing around.

Here's the evidence:

Jon Gruden (fired) -- I loved, absolutely loved, the Gruden threads and that gang of fellow fans. Hanging out with them for that month or so was the most fun volnation.com has ever been. Just really, really enjoyable to be around. Nonetheless, Jon Gruden wasn't and isn't the answer. No matter how much a significant segment of us wanted him. Verdict: not a championship coach, not even a college coach.

Mike Leach (5-4) -- The fella is entertaining, absolutely gotta admit that. He's a hoot. But we don't hire head coaches for their stand-up routine. As a coach, the Pirate will never be competing for championships. He's good. Far from great. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Hugh Freeze (7-3) -- Even putting aside his questionable values (which we shouldn't), that 7-3 record is all beating up on scrub teams like Old Dominion and MTSU, then losing to any team with a pulse and a bit of talent. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Gus Malzahn (6-3) -- Ditto the remarks about all the wins being to scrubs. Lost to Navy, yes Navy. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Lane Kiffin (7-2) -- Along with Harbaugh, Kiffin does find success on the field. But also like Harbaugh, Lane will never get over the last hump to championships. Why not? His character. He can't get out of the way of his mouth, or his flighty nature. Will he stay long at Ole Miss? Doubtful. He'll do well enough there, maybe--maybe--to raise his value to point where it's worth overlooking his childish nature and get hired at a true blue blood program one day. Where he will promptly become Harbaugh 2.0. Always just a game or two away from making the conference championship match. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Dan Mullen (4-5) -- lotta folks on these boards wanted him, at one time or another. But he's weird. He has weird values. He and his wife give off a weird vibe. He's no leader, can't keep a locker room behind him. He can't recruit worth a spit, and doesn't even seem to want to try very hard. At this point, you have to question even his "quarterback whisperer" reputation. Should he really get credit for Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Dak Prescott, and Chris Leak? Is this, perhaps instead, a case of Butch Jones lucking out with naturally talented Josh Dobbs, times four? Mullen didn't recruit Leak, who was already at Florida. Dan may have had a minor role in recruiting Tebow, but that was 90% the lure of Urban Meyer as head coach. Similarly, Alex Smith was already at Utah when Mullen arrived. In fact, Dak Prescott is the only noteworthy quarterback for whom Mullen gets all (well, a lot) of the credit. So how much did he develop them and harness their skill sets, and how much did he just luck out for them being naturally gifted? One has to wonder. Anyway, overall Verdict: not a championship coach.

Justin Fuente (4-5) -- Remember when Justin was the hot commodity so many on these boards wanted? Yeah. Not a championship coach.

And none of us wanted him (we emphatically did not), but just for old Kirk Herbstreit's edification, I'll add to the tail end of the list...

Greg Schiano (4-5) -- Rutgers isn't in the Big East any more, and this fellow is not a good enough coach to be in the B10 (much less the SEC). Again, not even addressing some potentially significant values issues. Verdict: most certainly not a championship coach.

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Honest question: who here would trade Josh Heupel for any of these coaches? Even, say, Harbaugh?

I sure wouldn't. I think Josh has more potential to be a championship caliber head coach than anyone Vol nation was pulling for in 2020 (or 2017-2018). I like where we are right now.

Go Vols!
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Freeze would have done fine , certainly would have gotten us in better shape recruiting wise. Malzahn is a career 8-9 win guy. Considering where we were I liked him as a fix the boat guy. His offense is like watching paint dry.
 
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