Face it, we suck at picking head coaches

#76
#76
fossilfiction said:
I like what CJH has done this season, but in no way can we know yet if he will work out. He could have a solid year one, better year two, and then decline. He could have a solid year one and then build on it very year maxing out at 10-11 wins per year. He could win it all within 4.
Comparing his first year to coaches who have been at their programs for several years is fools gold. Luke Fickell, Matt Campbell, James Franklin, and Hugh Freeze we're also coaches that we wanted here. I like CJH but I think Fickell, who has an established 44-14 record at Cincinnati, is probably the best at coaching up. LSU, Florida, USC, and Florida(it's coming) should talking to his agent.
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Fickell will be first stick to fall this off-season. He should no doubt have whatever job he wants. I think he could crush it at USC, but I could also see him at LSU.

For LSU, I think Kiffin is the wild card if Woodward’s first targets say no and it’s a repeat of USC search in 2009/2010. Kiffin will never have a legit defense to win games in Oxford consistently. Recruiting will always be streaky and not consistent either. Keeping with the theme of Kiffin “falling upward”, would not be surprised if he ends up there. Especially if he goes 10-2, which is winning out.

Fickell literally can do whatever he wants. USC would be the easier job back to greatness as I don’t think he’s another Sark or Helton type hire. LSU would offer him easy recruiting ground, but he will be coaching in toughest division in football once the realignment happens.
 
#78
#78
For the most part those were guys where the choice was them or Pruitt. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat over Pruitt. They are all vastly superior. If we had picked Leach instead of Pruitt we'd be at 9-10 wins at least as he finished year 4. We'd be much better off as a program than we are now with any of them vs Pruitt's/Fulmer's absolute nuking of the place. That said, I've loved Heupel since day one. He's a modern offensive guru that we've desperately needed and it was easy to see from all of his stops.
 
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#80
#80
Interesting take on Harbaugh and Freeze. Harbaugh took a team to the Super Bowl and even though he can't seem to get over the OSU "hump", has provided some stability to a program that was dangerously close to sliding down a "Tennessee" path of incompetent hires.

Freeze had tremendous success against the very best college football has to offer at a place which traditionally does not have much football success (outside of the 2 Manning stints). Right now I would give my left foot to beat Bubba 2 years in a row. If you can do that you have championship potential, IMO.

I love what CJH is doing, but time will tell if he is championship caliber.
 
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#81
#81
VAVol85 said:
Watched the VT - BC game and announcers were talking about upcoming Bama-LSU and how anything could happen. Announcers mentioned that UT played Bama close for a little over 3 quarters. Then said “I know LSU is not Tennessee but...” Couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
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The worm has turned.
 
#82
#82
My picks for head coach we’re freeze, kiffin, and heupel in that order. I never understood why more fans weren’t on board with the hire when it was announced.
 
#83
#83
West Vol said:
Keep in mind they were going hard after Clemson’s OC and would have hired him over Heupel. He appears to be an absolute disaster.
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I am not a hindsight guy, but everything I read and saw about Elliot was low energy and underwhelming. He seemed like a career coordinator.
Danny White Tokyo Drifted us into what he knew would be the correct, if uninspiring, choice. I am happy. But, man, we need some horses on defense. and a couple of QBs in the stable immediately.
 
#84
#84
It’s all about mostly recruiting and then managing a team.Saban and smart didn’t invent football. They just have better players than everyone. I think Heupel has the CEO ability they have, but can he recruit at a top 5 national level? We will have to wait and see
 
#86
#86
chattavol420 said:
My picks for head coach we’re freeze, kiffin, and heupel in that order. I never understood why more fans weren’t on board with the hire when it was announced.
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Because at the core, we fired a coach with unknown of paying his buyout or not while essentially buying UCF’s AD and Football Coach. Seemed like a lazy hire and search.
 
#87
#87
Falcons02 said:
Interesting take on Harbaugh and Freeze. Harbaugh took a team to the Super Bowl and even though he can't seem to get over the OSU "hump", has provided some stability to a program that was dangerously close to sliding down a "Tennessee" path of incompetent hires.

Freeze had tremendous success against the very best college football has to offer at a place which traditionally does not have much football success (outside of the 2 Manning stints). Right now I would give my left foot to beat Bubba 2 years in a row. If you can do that you have championship potential, IMO.

I love what CJH is doing, but time will tell if he is championship caliber.
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Yes. Harbaugh is lightyears better than what Rich Rod and Hoke did at Michigan. Like the biggest complaint from fans are the records vs MSU and OSU when Michigan has been stacked with talent and depth to compete. Tennessee has been able to say that about UGA, UF, and Bama maybe 2 years since Fulmer was here and that was 2015/2016.
 
#88
#88
I think Mullen would have been fine here or staying in Mississippi State. Florida is the wrong place for him.
 
#89
#89
I was all in on Dan Mullen after Butch. Obviously it still would of been a way better hire than Pruitt. Same with Leach after Mullen went to UF. Hindsight, Mullen wouldn't of made it here. Seems like he can't handle the pressure and work routine it takes to be a HC at a big time program. Miss St is more his speed. Think Leach is having a really solid second year at Arky and still think he could of have nice success here. But agree that I'm not sure he would win championships.

All in all, year two will be huge for CJH. Even though Jones was just 5-7 in his first year, that was enough to get people hyped. Now what looks to be 7-5 in year one for CJH, next year he has to build on it. I have faith he will
 
#90
#90
Time will tell if Heupel is a SEC coach, but I will say this is the first coaching staff since Kiffin that has shown a pulse in Year 1.
Dooley: Year 0
Butch: Stared blankly across the field at Oregon
Pruitt: A’ight
 
#91
#91
vols 30 said:
I wouldn't trade CJH, but who is a championship coach besides Saban?

Kiffin is a good coach. Unorthodox, but good
And I believe Freeze is very good. Didn't he beat Bama back to back Years when the Tide was #1 AND #2?
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The difference are the severe character flaws that Lane and the Reverend both posses.
 
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#92
#92
UTK said:
I was all in on Dan Mullen after Butch. Obviously it still would of been a way better hire than Pruitt. Same with Leach after Mullen went to UF. Hindsight, Mullen wouldn't of made it here. Seems like he can't handle the pressure and work routine it takes to be a HC at a big time program. Miss St is more his speed. Think Leach is having a really solid second year at Arky and still think he could of have nice success here. But agree that I'm not sure he would win championships.

All in all, year two will be huge for CJH. Even though Jones was just 5-7 in his first year, that was enough to get people hyped. Now what looks to be 7-5 in year one for CJH, next year he has to build on it. I have faith he will
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Mullen doesn’t like to recruit and Leach is at Miss St.
 
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#93
#93
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. They're good at this. Meanwhile, we've proven we collectively suck at it.

Honestly, raise your hand if you were looking hard at Josh Heupel as our next head coach before Dan White started his coaching search. I don't think there's a single post in any thread in all of vn.com that says, back at that time period, "hey we oughta go get the Heup!"

And yet, he's proving to be a far, far better coach than the names we were tossing around.

Here's the evidence:

Jon Gruden (fired) -- I loved, absolutely loved, the Gruden threads and that gang of fellow fans. Hanging out with them for that month or so was the most fun volnation.com has ever been. Just really, really enjoyable to be around. Nonetheless, Jon Gruden wasn't and isn't the answer. No matter how much a significant segment of us wanted him. Verdict: not a championship coach, not even a college coach.

Mike Leach (5-4) -- The fella is entertaining, absolutely gotta admit that. He's a hoot. But we don't hire head coaches for their stand-up routine. As a coach, the Pirate will never be competing for championships. He's good. Far from great. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Hugh Freeze (7-3) -- Even putting aside his questionable values (which we shouldn't), that 7-3 record is all beating up on scrub teams like Old Dominion and MTSU, then losing to any team with a pulse and a bit of talent. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Gus Malzahn (6-3) -- Ditto the remarks about all the wins being to scrubs. Lost to Navy, yes Navy. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Lane Kiffin (7-2) -- Along with Harbaugh, Kiffin does find success on the field. But also like Harbaugh, Lane will never get over the last hump to championships. Why not? His character. He can't get out of the way of his mouth, or his flighty nature. Will he stay long at Ole Miss? Doubtful. He'll do well enough there, maybe--maybe--to raise his value to point where it's worth overlooking his childish nature and get hired at a true blue blood program one day. Where he will promptly become Harbaugh 2.0. Always just a game or two away from making the conference championship match. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Dan Mullen (4-5) -- lotta folks on these boards wanted him, at one time or another. But he's weird. He has weird values. He and his wife give off a weird vibe. He's no leader, can't keep a locker room behind him. He can't recruit worth a spit, and doesn't even seem to want to try very hard. At this point, you have to question even his "quarterback whisperer" reputation. Should he really get credit for Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Dak Prescott, and Chris Leak? Is this, perhaps instead, a case of Butch Jones lucking out with naturally talented Josh Dobbs, times four? Mullen didn't recruit Leak, who was already at Florida. Dan may have had a minor role in recruiting Tebow, but that was 90% the lure of Urban Meyer as head coach. Similarly, Alex Smith was already at Utah when Mullen arrived. In fact, Dak Prescott is the only noteworthy quarterback for whom Mullen gets all (well, a lot) of the credit. So how much did he develop them and harness their skill sets, and how much did he just luck out for them being naturally gifted? One has to wonder. Anyway, overall Verdict: not a championship coach.

Justin Fuente (4-5) -- Remember when Justin was the hot commodity so many on these boards wanted? Yeah. Not a championship coach.

And none of us wanted him (we emphatically did not), but just for old Kirk Herbstreit's edification, I'll add to the tail end of the list...

Greg Schiano (4-5) -- Rutgers isn't in the Big East any more, and this fellow is not a good enough coach to be in the B10 (much less the SEC). Again, not even addressing some potentially significant values issues. Verdict: most certainly not a championship coach.

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Honest question: who here would trade Josh Heupel for any of these coaches? Even, say, Harbaugh?

I sure wouldn't. I think Josh has more potential to be a championship caliber head coach than anyone Vol nation was pulling for in 2020 (or 2017-2018). I like where we are right now.

Go Vols!
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I actually have a buddy that lives in Green Bay, that suggested we look at Josh Heupel! And this was very shortly after Pruitt was fired. He’s not even a Vol fan, he’s a Badger. He has made sure to remind me of this on a couple of occasions.🤷‍♂️
GBO!!
 
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#94
#94
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. They're good at this. Meanwhile, we've proven we collectively suck at it.

Honestly, raise your hand if you were looking hard at Josh Heupel as our next head coach before Dan White started his coaching search. I don't think there's a single post in any thread in all of vn.com that says, back at that time period, "hey we oughta go get the Heup!"

And yet, he's proving to be a far, far better coach than the names we were tossing around.

Here's the evidence:

Jon Gruden (fired) -- I loved, absolutely loved, the Gruden threads and that gang of fellow fans. Hanging out with them for that month or so was the most fun volnation.com has ever been. Just really, really enjoyable to be around. Nonetheless, Jon Gruden wasn't and isn't the answer. No matter how much a significant segment of us wanted him. Verdict: not a championship coach, not even a college coach.

Mike Leach (5-4) -- The fella is entertaining, absolutely gotta admit that. He's a hoot. But we don't hire head coaches for their stand-up routine. As a coach, the Pirate will never be competing for championships. He's good. Far from great. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Hugh Freeze (7-3) -- Even putting aside his questionable values (which we shouldn't), that 7-3 record is all beating up on scrub teams like Old Dominion and MTSU, then losing to any team with a pulse and a bit of talent. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Gus Malzahn (6-3) -- Ditto the remarks about all the wins being to scrubs. Lost to Navy, yes Navy. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Lane Kiffin (7-2) -- Along with Harbaugh, Kiffin does find success on the field. But also like Harbaugh, Lane will never get over the last hump to championships. Why not? His character. He can't get out of the way of his mouth, or his flighty nature. Will he stay long at Ole Miss? Doubtful. He'll do well enough there, maybe--maybe--to raise his value to point where it's worth overlooking his childish nature and get hired at a true blue blood program one day. Where he will promptly become Harbaugh 2.0. Always just a game or two away from making the conference championship match. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Dan Mullen (4-5) -- lotta folks on these boards wanted him, at one time or another. But he's weird. He has weird values. He and his wife give off a weird vibe. He's no leader, can't keep a locker room behind him. He can't recruit worth a spit, and doesn't even seem to want to try very hard. At this point, you have to question even his "quarterback whisperer" reputation. Should he really get credit for Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Dak Prescott, and Chris Leak? Is this, perhaps instead, a case of Butch Jones lucking out with naturally talented Josh Dobbs, times four? Mullen didn't recruit Leak, who was already at Florida. Dan may have had a minor role in recruiting Tebow, but that was 90% the lure of Urban Meyer as head coach. Similarly, Alex Smith was already at Utah when Mullen arrived. In fact, Dak Prescott is the only noteworthy quarterback for whom Mullen gets all (well, a lot) of the credit. So how much did he develop them and harness their skill sets, and how much did he just luck out for them being naturally gifted? One has to wonder. Anyway, overall Verdict: not a championship coach.

Justin Fuente (4-5) -- Remember when Justin was the hot commodity so many on these boards wanted? Yeah. Not a championship coach.

And none of us wanted him (we emphatically did not), but just for old Kirk Herbstreit's edification, I'll add to the tail end of the list...

Greg Schiano (4-5) -- Rutgers isn't in the Big East any more, and this fellow is not a good enough coach to be in the B10 (much less the SEC). Again, not even addressing some potentially significant values issues. Verdict: most certainly not a championship coach.

~ ~ ~
​
Honest question: who here would trade Josh Heupel for any of these coaches? Even, say, Harbaugh?

I sure wouldn't. I think Josh has more potential to be a championship caliber head coach than anyone Vol nation was pulling for in 2020 (or 2017-2018). I like where we are right now.

Go Vols!
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Just about every person on this list that the fans wanted has a better record than Huepel, but that said I just think it’s way too early to tell for me. People were praising Butch Jones until he flopped the year we were supposed to compete for the East.

That said, what he has done thus far with what he was given has been impressive. We will see how that looks in the future. I definitely would have taken Freeze over any of these guys.
 
#96
#96
VFL-82-JP said:
Thank God for Dan White and Donde Plowman. They're good at this. Meanwhile, we've proven we collectively suck at it.

Honestly, raise your hand if you were looking hard at Josh Heupel as our next head coach before Dan White started his coaching search. I don't think there's a single post in any thread in all of vn.com that says, back at that time period, "hey we oughta go get the Heup!"

And yet, he's proving to be a far, far better coach than the names we were tossing around.

Here's the evidence:

Jon Gruden (fired) -- I loved, absolutely loved, the Gruden threads and that gang of fellow fans. Hanging out with them for that month or so was the most fun volnation.com has ever been. Just really, really enjoyable to be around. Nonetheless, Jon Gruden wasn't and isn't the answer. No matter how much a significant segment of us wanted him. Verdict: not a championship coach, not even a college coach.

Mike Leach (5-4) -- The fella is entertaining, absolutely gotta admit that. He's a hoot. But we don't hire head coaches for their stand-up routine. As a coach, the Pirate will never be competing for championships. He's good. Far from great. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Jim Harbaugh (8-1) -- I'm not sure anyone here ever proposed Harbaugh as Tennessee's head coach, but there was plenty of admiration from afar. And Harbaugh is a good coach. But he's always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He does well enough to get you excited, but not well enough to win big things. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Hugh Freeze (7-3) -- Even putting aside his questionable values (which we shouldn't), that 7-3 record is all beating up on scrub teams like Old Dominion and MTSU, then losing to any team with a pulse and a bit of talent. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Gus Malzahn (6-3) -- Ditto the remarks about all the wins being to scrubs. Lost to Navy, yes Navy. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Lane Kiffin (7-2) -- Along with Harbaugh, Kiffin does find success on the field. But also like Harbaugh, Lane will never get over the last hump to championships. Why not? His character. He can't get out of the way of his mouth, or his flighty nature. Will he stay long at Ole Miss? Doubtful. He'll do well enough there, maybe--maybe--to raise his value to point where it's worth overlooking his childish nature and get hired at a true blue blood program one day. Where he will promptly become Harbaugh 2.0. Always just a game or two away from making the conference championship match. Verdict: not a championship coach.

Dan Mullen (4-5) -- lotta folks on these boards wanted him, at one time or another. But he's weird. He has weird values. He and his wife give off a weird vibe. He's no leader, can't keep a locker room behind him. He can't recruit worth a spit, and doesn't even seem to want to try very hard. At this point, you have to question even his "quarterback whisperer" reputation. Should he really get credit for Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Dak Prescott, and Chris Leak? Is this, perhaps instead, a case of Butch Jones lucking out with naturally talented Josh Dobbs, times four? Mullen didn't recruit Leak, who was already at Florida. Dan may have had a minor role in recruiting Tebow, but that was 90% the lure of Urban Meyer as head coach. Similarly, Alex Smith was already at Utah when Mullen arrived. In fact, Dak Prescott is the only noteworthy quarterback for whom Mullen gets all (well, a lot) of the credit. So how much did he develop them and harness their skill sets, and how much did he just luck out for them being naturally gifted? One has to wonder. Anyway, overall Verdict: not a championship coach.

Justin Fuente (4-5) -- Remember when Justin was the hot commodity so many on these boards wanted? Yeah. Not a championship coach.

And none of us wanted him (we emphatically did not), but just for old Kirk Herbstreit's edification, I'll add to the tail end of the list...

Greg Schiano (4-5) -- Rutgers isn't in the Big East any more, and this fellow is not a good enough coach to be in the B10 (much less the SEC). Again, not even addressing some potentially significant values issues. Verdict: most certainly not a championship coach.

~ ~ ~
​
Honest question: who here would trade Josh Heupel for any of these coaches? Even, say, Harbaugh?

I sure wouldn't. I think Josh has more potential to be a championship caliber head coach than anyone Vol nation was pulling for in 2020 (or 2017-2018). I like where we are right now.

Go Vols!
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The only option from the list before JH would have been Freeze. He’s at Liberty for goodness sake and he’s turned them into a winner immediately! In January given the choice I honestly would have taken him. Now no way now! JH and ride!
 
#98
#98
I said that at the beginning of the coaching search to replace Pruitt, White would probably look at Heupel to fill the job because of the history that they had with each other at Central Florida.

Heupel and his staff have done a hell of a job coaching up this roster and recruiting should pick up as a result of that.
 
#99
#99
Dr H Lecter said:
I’ll have to say he’s gotten more out of this ream than I expected. His rope has gotten a lot longer after watching this team play. Has gotten a lot from minimal talent. If he can recruit, he’s the real deal from what I see.
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Warning!!
Above post not to be read by dirty minds.
 
#100
#100
West Vol said:
Heupel was a last ditch effort after the coaching search reached a chaotic level. Hard to be too impressed with that hiring process, even if Heupel works out. And it sure seems like an odd time to say he’s a championship coach after a narrow win over a team that hasn’t won a championship in over sixty years. I think Georgia Tech has more SEC titles than they do.
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and Daddy never told me he loved me. My feet hurt too. Where's my pudding!!!
 
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