Fannie and Fred on the Brink

#51
#51
droski said:
once again greenspan caused this housing problem. he's far more to blame than any other american.
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I don't think anyone is blaming Bush for the problem, but from what I've read, they are blaming him for ignoring the problem. The Fed Chairman very publicly in 04 mentioned the specific need for this to be addressed in one of his speeches.
 
#52
#52
oklavol said:
Did you really expect Congress to vote to not finance the war to avoid the deficit spending?

So you blame Congress for the deficit spending when the President asked for the declaration of war? All I can say is wow.

I do agree Congress should have not have voted for the declaration of war, but wow, you expect alot from your congress. I'm pretty sure Congress was a Republican majority during that time.
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We have a declaration of war in effect? I must have missed that. Can you tell me when that happened?
 
#53
#53
KentheOrange said:
We have a declaration of war in effect? I must have missed that. Can you tell me when that happened?
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Paralleling its efforts in the U.N., the Bush Administration also sought domestic authorization for an invasion, which it was granted on October 2002 when the U.S. Congress passed a "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq".
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"Iraq Resolution" and "Iraq War Resolution" are popular names for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] a joint resolution (i.e. a law) passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...se_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq
2003 invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#54
#54
oklavol said:
5 trillion is the amount of debt the govt will have to guarantee if they are forced to bail them out
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that's entertaining. Guaranteeing 5 trillion of home mortgages is never ever going to happen, even with liberal idiots at the helm. Moreover, even if it did, the level of risk there is some tiny % of the face value. A really tiny %. Do you actually understand that math?
 
#55
#55
I see oklavol has a difficult time recognizing the difference between a resolution to use military force and a declaration of war.
 
#56
#56
#58
#58
KentheOrange said:
You seem to like Wikipedia. Why didn't you look it up there?

Here. I'll make it easy for you.

Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Your own link lists the Iraq War:
War or conflict Opponent(s) Initial authorization Votes President Conclusion
Senate House
Quasi-War France Act Further to Protect the Commerce of the United States
July 9, 1798 J. Adams Convention of 1800 (Treaty of Mortefontaine)
First Barbary War Barbary States 1801[citation needed] Jefferson
Second Barbary War Barbary States 1815[citation needed] Madison
Raid of slave traffic Africa 1820[citation needed]
Redress for attack on U.S. Navy vessel Paraguay 1859[citation needed] Buchanan
Intervention during the Russian Civil War Bolshevist Russia 1918[citation needed] Wilson
Lebanon crisis of 1958 Rebels 1958[citation needed] Eisenhower
Vietnam War National Liberation Front, later Democratic Republic of Vietnam Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, August 7, 1964 88-2 416-0 Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon American Force withdrew.
Multinational Force in Lebanon Shia and Druze miltias; Syria S.J.R. 159
September 29, 1983 54-46 253-156 Reagan Force withdrew in 1984
Persian Gulf War, also known as Operation Desert Storm Iraq H.R.J. Res. 77
January 12, 1991 52-47 250-183 George H. W. Bush The United Nations Security Council drew up terms for the cease-fire, April 3, 1991
2001 war in Afghanistan, also known as Operation Enduring Freedom Taliban government of Afghanistan and al-Qaida S.J. Res. 23
September 14, 2001 98-0 420-1 George W. Bush Ongoing, disputed
Iraq War, also known as Operation Iraqi Freedom Iraq H.J. Res. 114,
October 16, 2002 77-23 296-133 Ongoing, disputed
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#62
#62
oklavol said:
If you think what went on in Iraq wasn't a war then you're beyond help.
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That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was whether or not there was a declaration of war against Iraq. There are two versions of a declaration of war and neither one was voted on or passed by congress.

There damn sure is a difference between a declaration of war and a military action. I will admit that it all looks the same to boots on the ground.
 
#67
#67
Fine Vol said:
Least we know they cant shut down the MemphisMAC:)
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I don't know man, lots of folks here are tight up for money and getting layed off, so I don't know what's going to happen here. Everyone around here is saying that hope and change crap. :p
 
#68
#68
myrobbins7 said:
I don't know man, lots of folks here are tight up for money and getting layed off, so I don't know what's going to happen here. Everyone around here is saying that hope and change crap. :p
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I saw this on a car :eek:lol:
 

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#71
#71
KentheOrange said:
That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was whether or not there was a declaration of war against Iraq. There are two versions of a declaration of war and neither one was voted on or passed by congress.

There damn sure is a difference between a declaration of war and a military action. I will admit that it all looks the same to boots on the ground.
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The only difference between a formal declaration of war and the Iraq War Resolution is in your head. You want to argue semantics, but there's no doubt that the Iraq War Resolution was just that, a resolution for war in Iraq.
 
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#72
#72
This is all interesting. The "liberal" run Fannie and Freddie was, for quite some time, a very conservative purchaser of mortgages. The "conservative" run HUD required that these GSE's purchase subprime loans in 2004 to assist low-to-mid level income home buying. From '04 to '06 they were asked to purchase almost $450B in securities backed by subprime loans by HUD. Remember -- HUD is the current regulator of FNM & FRE -- though not for long.

A bailout of FNM and FRE is wrong. Moral hazard aside, it's privatizing profit and socializing losses. However, stepping back and letting the companies fail will further destroy the economy on a wide enough scale that everyone will be impacted (homeowner or not).

As for blaming Bush -- certainly not. Blame Clinton? Wrong again. This really wasn't a political issue. This was a Fed/regulatory issue that got out of hand.

Unfortunately, the impact of this systemic bank failure will be felt for some time to come. Indymac is one of many to come. The real issue there is the FDIC already used 10% of it's reserves on Indymac alone.....yikes.
 
#73
#73
I read yesterday the U.S. had the largest bank failure in history, another article that listed the next 10 most likely banks to fail.

Then a discussion tonight on Foxnews about the 5 trillion bailout of Fannie Maye with a looming 90 trillion shortfall in social security.

Then the Euro posted a new record against the dollar, oil prices at an all-time high, and GM for the first time ever not offering a dividend on their stock this quarter. Economicly things are very gloomy. The U.S. is headed for some very bleak times I don't have a lot of confidence in either candidate running for President that they can solve these kind of difficulties.
 
#74
#74
Hang on oklavol, Wells Fargo (the 5th largest bank in the USA) reported better than expected numbers AND hiked it's dividend, that's right hiked the dividend at a time like this. I know things seem rough right now and it is for some folks, but it's not the end of the world. We have been though tough times before and made it ok, we will be fine again. I will say, we really need to get the dollar up. Just my thoughts man...
 
#75
#75
oklavol said:
I read yesterday the U.S. had the largest bank failure in history, another article that listed the next 10 most likely banks to fail.

Then a discussion tonight on Foxnews about the 5 trillion bailout of Fannie Maye with a looming 90 trillion shortfall in social security.

Then the Euro posted a new record against the dollar, oil prices at an all-time high, and GM for the first time ever not offering a dividend on their stock this quarter. Economicly things are very gloomy. The U.S. is headed for some very bleak times I don't have a lot of confidence in either candidate running for President that they can solve these kind of difficulties.
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The economy is dealing with the onset of stagflation -- one of the most complicated issues to deal with. While Presidents have often been elected on or blamed for the economy's performance -- it's rare that we blame the right person. It's really quite simple -- the President simply doesn't have enough control over the economy to create or destroy such wealth. It all boils down to government intervention and how much or little is the right amount. I don't have an answer for that right now....shaky times.
 
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