Fast Break Offense?

[WA_Vol]

I don't think what I have heard described at the scrimmage as the fast break offense is a good match for the personnel on this offense.

What I thougth was most promising on the team is the young RB's. I wanted to see Foster get 30+ carries a game, and Hardesty and Coker get 20+ carries together.

I would like to see UT use the run to setup the pass, throwing off play action pass to the tight end. The LB's seem to overplay the run against UT. Even using 2 tight ends, I just don't see the wr's contributing a lot to the team right now. Throwing to the tight end can be a quick short pass, with a lot higher % complete then the long throws to the wr's, that Ainge has a tendency to overthrow and the wr's drop.

Throw the ball 10-20 times to the tight end off of play action pass to keep the safeties and LB's honest. Then occasionally throw out to the wr's maybe 5 times a game, to keep them awake. Maybe then they would put some effort into catching passes.

I just don't think what I have heard described as the fast break offense, using the pass to setup the run, 3 and 4 WR sets, matches well with the strength of this team. I think the offense would be better served to focus on running the ball next year, not pass.


I could be wrong, any thoughts?

 

[hvwarrior58]

Coach Cut apparently told Todd Campbell that they expect to throw it 40-50 times a game.

 

[GAVol]

Throwing 10-20 balls to the tight end is a little much, but I understand what you are saying. I think the term "fast break" is a little bit of a misnomer. We may see a few more 3, 4, and 5 wide sets, but from what I've read, Cutcliffe is just looking for a quicker tempo as in getting into and out of the huddle faster and being more crisp and decisive in everything that we do.

 

[Vol423]

Well, from what I've been reading it sounds like it's going to be a choice between the lesser of two evils. Our offensive line sounds truly offensive, and our wide receivers are continuing to drop a lot of passes. So far, it's sounding a lot like last year. Hopefully things will improve in the Fall. If things don't change drastically, our current wide receiver corp might go down in the books as the most overhyped group of players to ever step on to the field at Neyland Stadium.

 

[TheThrill]

Throwing 10-20 balls to the tight end is a little much, but I understand what you are saying. I think the term "fast break" is a little bit of a misnomer. We may see a few more 3, 4, and 5 wide sets, but from what I've read, Cutcliffe is just looking for a quicker tempo as in getting into and out of the huddle faster and being more crisp and decisive in everything that we do.

I agree. I think our "fast-break offense" will give our opponents less time to substitute and keep the offense in rhythm, but not necessarily throw the ball everytime. Because of our young OL, we should see alot of short, quick passes(a la 2nd half of LSU game last year) and a healthy dose of Foster. The key will be choosing the right QB who can make those short passes accurate enough to let the WR's get those YAC's.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't think what I have heard described at the scrimmage as the fast break offense is a good match for the personnel on this offense.

What I thougth was most promising on the team is the young RB's. I wanted to see Foster get 30+ carries a game, and Hardesty and Coker get 20+ carries together.

I would like to see UT use the run to setup the pass, throwing off play action pass to the tight end. The LB's seem to overplay the run against UT. Even using 2 tight ends, I just don't see the wr's contributing a lot to the team right now. Throwing to the tight end can be a quick short pass, with a lot higher % complete then the long throws to the wr's, that Ainge has a tendency to overthrow and the wr's drop.

Throw the ball 10-20 times to the tight end off of play action pass to keep the safeties and LB's honest. Then occasionally throw out to the wr's maybe 5 times a game, to keep them awake. Maybe then they would put some effort into catching passes.

I just don't think what I have heard described as the fast break offense, using the pass to setup the run, 3 and 4 WR sets, matches well with the strength of this team. I think the offense would be better served to focus on running the ball next year, not pass.
I could be wrong, any thoughts?

I think the basics of what you're saying are fine....but i agree with GAVol...the fast break was really intended to be more of an up tempo-- huddle, to line to snap....just short of no huddle i guess....almost forces the offense in to rhythem and keeps them there.

as for running Foster/hardesty/Coker 50 times a game, that's a bit much when you consider that Cut probably wants a more balacned offense. If we could get 25-30 good rushing attempts a game, and average some where around 4 ypc, i think we'd have something. I'll say this, if we are still a run first team, we are going to have to get more than 2-3 yards on 1st down runs, period. I said it in another board last year....our mantra for the offesne should be 2nd and short. the more 2nd and 1, 2, 3, & 4's we get in to the more successfull this team will be.

And WR's are going to have to get involved. I'm all for TE's getting the ball, but 10-20? might be a bit much. you can throw to a TE 4-5 times a game and still accomplish the same thing you are talking about.

the whole idea behind this offense, at least in principle, is to give Def. Cord. something else to think about besides just putting 8 in the box and daring us to go over the top, which is what happened last year, a lot......play action obviously is huge. So you have to have a running game. TE's can come in to play on those 3rd and medium type sitations....

Either way, right now, based on what you read, they all have a long way to go though.

 

[mattvols]

thowing to the tight ends that much is not smart, wide recievers are out there for a reason. Especially with Chris Brown at tight end who can't catch the ball at all. there is a reason they never throw it to him. His momma will beat me up for saying that. But you have to remember during the scrimmage we were playing our 3rd and 4th string tail backs so the defense was playing the pass much more than the run.

 

[OWB]

thowing to the tight ends that much is not smart, wide recievers are out there for a reason.

Ask Virginia Tech how they feel about that. I agree, you can't throw it to them all the time, but if you have some good ones, you can throw to them a hefty amount. Plus it will keep the linebackers honest.

 

[jakez4ut]

Ask Virginia Tech how they feel about that. I agree, you can't throw it to them all the time, but if you have some good ones, you can throw to them a hefty amount. Plus it will keep the linebackers honest.

i'll tell you this much...if we had a TE like Ben Troupe was at Uf or Leonard Pope at UGA....they'd better get the ball thrown to them......and i think we would....we proved that with Jason Witten....supposedly the Cottoam kids are doing pretty good, so we'll see.

 

[volmanjr]

look at us when Witten was here, I miss those days

 

[mattvols]

if we have a capable TE i'm sure he will get plenty of passes

 

[Crakaveli]

BIC = Believe in Cutcliffe

 

[WA_Vol]

I guess my point is the offense needs to be built around the RB's, Foster, Hardesty, Coker. I would like to see the offense run about 75% of the time and pass about 25%.

Foster: 30 carries/game
Hardesty & Coker: 20 carries/game
Passing: 25/game

Just based on last year, I think the offense would be better off running the ball more with Foster. The less Ainge is throwing the ball better, and the less to the wr's even better.

Throwing to the tight end does a couple of things. Slows the LB's puisuit in the running game. It makes Ainges throws shorter and more high %, I also think the shorter throws are easier to catch (less drops).

Looking at what the offense did last year, this is what direction I expected the offense to go. Throwing even more then we did last year seems like a mistake.

 

[jakez4ut]

Looking at what the offense did last year, this is what direction I expected the offense to go. Throwing even more then we did last year seems like a mistake.

certainly understand why you feel that way...hard to blame anyone for thinking this way from a philosophy stand point.

but one of the problems with our offense was the limitations from a play calling standpoint. Not that it was always bad, because execution of those plays was lack luster as well.

But i would be more inclined to have an offense that was about 60/40 run to pass.

We're going to run. i have no doubt about that. but like you, it's the pass that worries me. i do agree we need high % passes, but in recent years, those have been WR screens, which are great when they work, but more times than not they didn't.

in your 50 or so carries a game, does that mean touches or carries? cause i'd like to see some screens to the backs as well. remember what ND did to our D last year on the rb screens? it accomplished the same thing your high % passes to the TE's would accomplsh, and still give the def something else to think about.

 

[almostavol]

Get ready for a 'so-so' year guys!!! I can smell it in the air. Any talk of SEC/National championships is foolish at best. Even if the Vols are vastly improved over last year, are we foolish enough to think that the other teams are just going to be sitting around in fear of the UTK orangeade???????????????

Geeeeesh!

 

[WA_Vol]

Get ready for a 'so-so' year guys!!! I can smell it in the air. Any talk of SEC/National championships is foolish at best. Even if the Vols are vastly improved over last year, are we foolish enough to think that the other teams are just going to be sitting around in fear of the UTK orangeade???????????????

Geeeeesh!

That seemed to be the feeling most everyone had from the scrimmage. The prospect of an offense with ainge throwing the ball more then he did last year, I don't think is going to improve the outlook.

 

[WA_Vol]

certainly understand why you feel that way...hard to blame anyone for thinking this way from a philosophy stand point.

but one of the problems with our offense was the limitations from a play calling standpoint. Not that it was always bad, because execution of those plays was lack luster as well.

But i would be more inclined to have an offense that was about 60/40 run to pass.

We're going to run. i have no doubt about that. but like you, it's the pass that worries me. i do agree we need high % passes, but in recent years, those have been WR screens, which are great when they work, but more times than not they didn't.

in your 50 or so carries a game, does that mean touches or carries? cause i'd like to see some screens to the backs as well. remember what ND did to our D last year on the rb screens? it accomplished the same thing your high % passes to the TE's would accomplsh, and still give the def something else to think about.

40/60 would be fine in normal circumstances, but with our underperforming qb and wr's I dont think it is a good fit for this offense. I think the only bright spot on this team from last year was the running of foster, I think that should be the focus of the offense, not Ainge throwing the ball more.

 

[patrick]

I guess my point is the offense needs to be built around the RB's, Foster, Hardesty, Coker. I would like to see the offense run about 75% of the time and pass about 25%.

Foster: 30 carries/game
Hardesty & Coker: 20 carries/game
Passing: 25/game

Just based on last year, I think the offense would be better off running the ball more with Foster. The less Ainge is throwing the ball better, and the less to the wr's even better.

Throwing to the tight end does a couple of things. Slows the LB's puisuit in the running game. It makes Ainges throws shorter and more high %, I also think the shorter throws are easier to catch (less drops).

Looking at what the offense did last year, this is what direction I expected the offense to go. Throwing even more then we did last year seems like a mistake.

Tennessee has not shown for a few years that they have the ability to run the ball that much and be successful. There are very few great college football team these days that can win by running the ball 75% of the time.

Any coach with half a brain would stack 8 in the box and put you in 3rd and long the entire game. You would not win many games that way.

 

[WA_Vol]

Tennessee has not shown for a few years that they have the ability to run the ball that much and be successful. There are very few great college football team these days that can win by running the ball 75% of the time.

Any coach with half a brain would stack 8 in the box and put you in 3rd and long the entire game. You would not win many games that way.

Did you watch Ga play last year? They won the sec last year with 2 tight ends and running the ball the majority of the time.

Most teams were alreay playing man to man against UT's 3 wide receivers last year, and the LB's and safeties were all focusing on stopping the run. Nobody was double teaming UT's wr's, the opposing teams LB's and safeties all focused on stopping UT's running game.

This 8 men in the box concept is what defenses were doing to UT most of last season. Forcing UT in constant throwing situations. Thats what the opposing defenses wanted to force UT to do, throw the ball.

 

[holdemvol]

Did you watch Ga play last year? They won the sec last year with 2 tight ends and running the ball the majority of the time.

Most teams were alreay playing man to man against UT's 3 wide receivers last year, and the LB's and safeties were all focusing on stopping the run. Nobody was double teaming UT's wr's, the opposing teams LB's and safeties all focused on stopping UT's running game.

This 8 men in the box concept is what defenses were doing to UT most of last season. Forcing UT in constant throwing situations. Thats what the opposing defenses wanted to force UT to do, throw the ball.

The only fix for this offense is to get some productivity out of the QB/WR's. UT had plenty of opportunities in every single game to burn the defense deep and just couldn't hook up whether it was because of a bad throw, bad route or dropped ball. I don't care who you have at tailback you are not going to beat anyone unless you can throw the ball effectively. I think foster is a very good back, but handing him the ball 40 times a game is not going to do any good (especially with a suspect OL) when defenses always have 8 in the box. Unless Ainge anc company figure out how to make some plays UT is screwed.

 

[OWB]

Get ready for a 'so-so' year guys!!! I can smell it in the air. Any talk of SEC/National championships is foolish at best. Even if the Vols are vastly improved over last year, are we foolish enough to think that the other teams are just going to be sitting around in fear of the UTK orangeade???????????????

Geeeeesh!

We're DOOMED!! DOOMED I tell ya! :mf_surrender:

 

[WA_Vol]

The only fix for this offense is to get some productivity out of the QB/WR's. UT had plenty of opportunities in every single game to burn the defense deep and just couldn't hook up whether it was because of a bad throw, bad route or dropped ball. I don't care who you have at tailback you are not going to beat anyone unless you can throw the ball effectively. I think foster is a very good back, but handing him the ball 40 times a game is not going to do any good (especially with a suspect OL) when defenses always have 8 in the box. Unless Ainge anc company figure out how to make some plays UT is screwed.

I think UT is screwed then. Ainge and the wr's look like they did last year. At least last year, when Foster was running the ball we had some offensive prodution.

I thought Ga demonstrated pretty well you could win the sec east running the ball the majority of the time, and throwing it occasionally to the tight end.

We threw the ball half or more then half the time last year. I think UT showed pretty well you couldnt finish close to last throwing the ball half the time. With our wr and qb throwing the ball more then we did last year is not a good fix in my opinion.

This thread was really about the idea of throwing the ball more then we did last year (fast break offense), where I thought the offense should focus on running the ball more, since Foster was the only effective part of the offense last year.

 

[OWB]

Like others have said, "fastbreak" is more of a tempo thing than a passing thing.

 

[WA_Vol]

Like others have said, "fastbreak" is more of a tempo thing than a passing thing.

Cutcliffe apparently told the new wr recruit that UT plans to throw the ball 40-50 times a game this year.

 

[VOLracerx]

About the UGA thing - they only appeared to run more. When Shockley couldn't find an open reciever he took off or dumped it short, they pounded away but who wouldn't with that backfiled and OL. when you look at UGA the thing that saved them was their ability to make the pass effective when it HAD to be there.