Federal Indictment of Donald Trump

[IluvdoubleD's]

LMAO. Someone please repost frumpy pants' truther melt down for the rest of us to laugh at. Trump calls the NY attorney general 'Letitia 'Peekaboo' James' and revives claims that she's 'racist' after she sued him for fraud

 

[Sudden Impact]

You are "desperately fishing" by interleaving two different things, the presidential classification of documents and the post-presidency possession of documents. I'm stating the constitutional defense basis for presidential classification, and not arguing or defending the post-presidency possession. Your emotional response re: Trump's suitability for office is immaterial to this argument; please recompose and focus on the argument.

Then you can understand my references to his Jan 19, 2021 are concerned solely with the orderly declassifying of Russia investigation documents: Memorandum on Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation – The White House Here's background on it: Final Trump declassification request to DOJ blocked after he left White House - and how FBI/DOJ has concealed its malevolence for six years now. Meadows convinced Trump to orderly declassify the documents.

To boil your position down, you predicate the vested authority of classification itself upon whether or not the president follows bureaucratic procedure or custom; the constitution establishes no such predication, and the court has been mute except to convey singular authority. Again, whose procedures must the president follow to declassify? Where does the constitution subject that authority to procedural underlings? Or statutes of Congress, for that matter? You should re-read the last link I gave you.

I'd share a cell with Bubba because I'm not president. Neither were senior aide Sandy Berger or SoS Hillary Clinton but rather subordinate officers who mishandled, misappropriated, stole, and destroyed classified and otherwise official documents. See the analogy fail?

Perhaps you'd rather focus on the argument of records possession, declassified or not, instead of classification - ? You have some defensible positions there.

God knows you are weak minded. The LOL comment got me rolling. Look around on the Board. It is simple as this, If Trump declassified any Document no matter when or where then there is a record of it and Trump needs to provide the evidence that he did so. A Magic Wand or Sharpie is not going to cut it.
It was a partial emotional response followed by the fact he is unfit for office. So take it for what it is worth.
You seem to think the declassification process is a customary and a bureaucratic procedure, this is where you are missing the boat. Well, it's not and you seem to be unable to find it on the internet. I wonder why? So I can see your point about how simple you think this is as to how King Trump can declassified documents with the waiving of a magic sharpie. Well it is not. There is a reason that we have three branches of Govt and a Check and Balance System for accountability. King Trump thought he could just say it and it was done that was his mistake. You keep looking but that is not the procedures. All Trump and Staff has to do is show the evidence that He did what he said he did and show proof that he did so. Somebody forgot to type up the memo or they never sent it out or it never happened. And I guess you seem to forget that these documents belong to the Govt not Trump regardless of classification.
So you keep looking for that needle in the haystack and we will have an I gotcha moment. LOL (Juvenile Response)
Ignorance is no excuse for breaking a law. That is why he has a staff. Trump is digging his on grave.
The use of the history lesson with the FBI and Hillary has no bearing on this case, but keep trying.

 

[NCFisher]

Does the incumbent president have access to all classified material?

I think yes, with the restraints being motivation/interest of the president, and time.

 

[0nelilreb]

She is filing a 250 MILLION dollar fraud suit against frump. He's done.

Do you actually believe this , deep down , that he is done, or are you just setting your feels up again to get hurt ?

 

[RockyTop85]

I think yes, with the restraints being motivation/interest of the president, and time.

I would assume that’s correct.

So, if classification doesn’t limit the access of the sitting president, what purpose does a clandestine declassification serve?

I would assume that the entire purpose of the procedures is to give notice to people who aren’t the president about what they can and can’t have access to.

So I think that raises two disputes.

First, there would be a factual dispute (jury question) about whether he actually declassified anything or whether he made that up after the fact. In that dispute, it would also be significant that he didn’t raise declassification in his correspondence with national archives when they advised him they were forwarding everything to other agencies to review whether it was a breach of national security. Seems like that would have been an opportune time to raise that issue, if it were true. “I declassified it” only came up after the theory was floated by, as far as I know, the infowars contributor lawyers. Makes it seem like an excuse.

Second, there seems to be a legal question of whether a secret declassification has any legal effect.

 

[lawgator1]

I would assume that’s correct.

So, if classification doesn’t limit the access of the sitting president, what purpose does a clandestine declassification serve?

I would assume that the entire purpose of the procedures is to give notice to people who aren’t the president about what they can and can’t have access to.

So I think that raises two disputes.

First, there would be a factual dispute (jury question) about whether he actually declassified anything or whether he made that up after the fact. In that dispute, it would also be significant that he didn’t raise declassification in his correspondence with national archives when they advised him they were forwarding everything to other agencies to review whether it was a breach of national security. Seems like that would have been an opportune time to raise that issue, if it were true. “I declassified it” only came up after the theory was floated by, as far as I know, the infowars contributor lawyers. Makes it seem like an excuse.

Second, there seems to be a legal question of whether a secret declassification has any legal effect.

Ah, but you forget the magic talisman that Trump always has for his base, all to ready to gobble it up.... ALTERNATIVE FACTS!

 

[Majors]

Ah, but you forget the magic talisman that Trump always has for his base, all to ready to gobble it up.... ALTERNATIVE FACTS!

Same type of tailspin the left has for chasing a ghost indictment again.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Do you actually believe this , deep down , that he is done, or are you just setting your feels up again to get hurt ?

This is the first time anyone has successfully brought suit against him. There are obstacles and "ways out", but it's clear what has happened.

 

[NCFisher]

God knows you are weak minded. The LOL comment got me rolling. Look around on the Board. It is simple as this, If Trump declassified any Document no matter when or where then there is a record of it and Trump needs to provide the evidence that he did so. A Magic Wand or Sharpie is not going to cut it.
It was a partial emotional response followed by the fact he is unfit for office. So take it for what it is worth.
You seem to think the declassification process is a customary and a bureaucratic procedure, this is where you are missing the boat. Well, it's not and you seem to be unable to find it on the internet. I wonder why? So I can see your point about how simple you think this is as to how King Trump can declassified documents with the waiving of a magic sharpie. Well it is not. There is a reason that we have three branches of Govt and a Check and Balance System for accountability. King Trump thought he could just say it and it was done that was his mistake. You keep looking but that is not the procedures. All Trump and Staff has to do is show the evidence that He did what he said he did and show proof that he did so. Somebody forgot to type up the memo or they never sent it out or it never happened. And I guess you seem to forget that these documents belong to the Govt not Trump regardless of classification.
So you keep looking for that needle in the haystack and we will have an I gotcha moment. LOL (Juvenile Response)
Ignorance is no excuse for breaking a law. That is why he has a staff. Trump is digging his on grave.
The use of the history lesson with the FBI and Hillary has no bearing on this case, but keep trying.

The classification 'system' was/is established by a succession of executive orders. Executive orders.

"Well, why is that?" one may ask.​

Because the president is the classification authority and answers to no one in the matter, whether he takes their counsel or not.

Any procedure therein is customary and bureaucratic for the president, but rules to live by for everyone else. It is literally the executive telling everyone else how they will manage classified info. And executive orders do not bind successive presidents.

Aside from your disgruntlement, it has nothing to do with "King Trump" and everything to do with King President Whomever in the matter of classification. Where granted plenary power, the executive is as King-like as you get in a constitutional republic - good analogy for a change!

As to Trump's standing order: I don't like to see even plenary power exercised randomly & am for the position that presidents should perform orderly classification, I'm simply against conjuring something that doesn't exist constitutionally, that he must or else he has no classification authority. Should it become the adjudicated basis of indictment, I think the court will take a similar position upon reaching Federal appeals or SCOTUS; that remedy is constitutional amendment, or ballot box. That an unelected bureaucracy is not accommodated at the expense of the president's delegated authority.

As I mentioned, there are some people who assert procedure as legitimization as you do, but like you, they cannot point to a constitutional predicate.
No, I didn't forget the docs belong to NARA, nor been arguing the point of possession.
The history lesson had bearing on your insistence that clearance holding underlings like yourself have an equivalence to the president, or even appointed subordinates. You don't.

 

[Caculator]

Letter Surfaces of Obama Foundation Admitting in 2018 They Keep Classified Documents in Unsecured Storage at Furniture Warehouse
September 21, 2022 | sundance | 58 Comments
“Hoffman Estates” is a previously abandoned Chicago area Sears furniture warehouse. The Obama Foundation leased, then re-upped the lease, to use the facility to store all the paper documents from the Obama administration {Location Link}.
The Obama administration told the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) they were going to upload the documents into a digital form for use in the Obama library. The paper documents were, still are, held at the Hoffman Estates warehouse while this digitization process took place. It should be noted, the Obama Foundation has never digitized the records, hence they renewed the warehouse lease.
Contrast against the DOJ-NSD legal position about classified records held in the secure facility of Mar-a-Lago, a 2018 letter {Obama.org pdf here} from the Obama Foundation to the NARA is an example of the two-tiered selective justice system. Within the 2018 letter the Obama team admit to storing both “classified and unclassified” documents at the warehouse: [Page #2, bullet-point 7]

[Obama.Org pdf]
Obviously, there were no raids on Hoffman Estates from the FBI to secure the classified documents. Nor did the DOJ National Security Division trigger a criminal investigation of President Obama for holding documents, particularly classified documents, against the interests of the NARA while they “digitized them;” a process, which again should be noted, never even began.
The intent of sharing this information is just to highlight the political dynamic within the NARA, DOJ and FBI as it pertains to selective enforcement of presidential records.

 

[Orangeburst]

Letter Surfaces of Obama Foundation Admitting in 2018 They Keep Classified Documents in Unsecured Storage at Furniture Warehouse
September 21, 2022 | sundance | 58 Comments
“Hoffman Estates” is a previously abandoned Chicago area Sears furniture warehouse. The Obama Foundation leased, then re-upped the lease, to use the facility to store all the paper documents from the Obama administration {Location Link}.
The Obama administration told the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) they were going to upload the documents into a digital form for use in the Obama library. The paper documents were, still are, held at the Hoffman Estates warehouse while this digitization process took place. It should be noted, the Obama Foundation has never digitized the records, hence they renewed the warehouse lease.
Contrast against the DOJ-NSD legal position about classified records held in the secure facility of Mar-a-Lago, a 2018 letter {Obama.org pdf here} from the Obama Foundation to the NARA is an example of the two-tiered selective justice system. Within the 2018 letter the Obama team admit to storing both “classified and unclassified” documents at the warehouse: [Page #2, bullet-point 7]

[Obama.Org pdf]
Obviously, there were no raids on Hoffman Estates from the FBI to secure the classified documents. Nor did the DOJ National Security Division trigger a criminal investigation of President Obama for holding documents, particularly classified documents, against the interests of the NARA while they “digitized them;” a process, which again should be noted, never even began.
The intent of sharing this information is just to highlight the political dynamic within the NARA, DOJ and FBI as it pertains to selective enforcement of presidential records.

Dang..that is gonna leave a judicial mark.
Lock Trump up I say.

 

[0nelilreb]

This is the first time anyone has successfully brought suit against him. There are obstacles and "ways out", but it's clear what has happened.

Wait what ? Noooo

 

[Orangeburst]

WTF would you use the words Letitia 'peekaboo', right before you accuse her of being a racist? View attachment 492486

Did Nadler get run over?

 

[NCFisher]

I would assume that’s correct.

So, if classification doesn’t limit the access of the sitting president, what purpose does a clandestine declassification serve?

I would assume that the entire purpose of the procedures is to give notice to people who aren’t the president about what they can and can’t have access to.

So I think that raises two disputes.

First, there would be a factual dispute (jury question) about whether he actually declassified anything or whether he made that up after the fact. In that dispute, it would also be significant that he didn’t raise declassification in his correspondence with national archives when they advised him they were forwarding everything to other agencies to review whether it was a breach of national security. Seems like that would have been an opportune time to raise that issue, if it were true. “I declassified it” only came up after the theory was floated by, as far as I know, the infowars contributor lawyers. Makes it seem like an excuse.

Second, there seems to be a legal question of whether a secret declassification has any legal effect.

That's a sound point of contention; did Trump make such a statement with any staff present? Kash Patel states he was present when the president made a declassification declaration, but uncertain if that refers to Jan 19-20, 2021. I dislike the 'standing order' claim by Trump even if true, and don't argue it isn't a ruse but that we don't know. No one does NOT prefer the executive orderly execute his classification authority, I just don't see a procedural-slob exclusion.

Here's another - can a president by treating materials as unclassified, thus render them unclassified? If no, where is that constitutional limitation? Don't recall the origin. I think Trump has claimed he had a standing order of declassification for docs he'd take home/MAL during his presidency, but I can't reliably follow his stream of consciousness proclamations.

The classification system is established by executive orders of successive presidents (from FDR on) to dictate how everyone else handles material. Congress has three primary laws applying penalty to the system.

If the docs pertained to DOJ/FBI malfeasance re: Russia investigations, I'd rather those were public and him in jail, rather than being reacquired by DOJ.

 

[evillawyer]

Suck it, maganistas

 

[Sudden Impact]

The classification 'system' was/is established by a succession of executive orders.
The history lesson had bearing on your insistence that clearance holding underlings like yourself have an equivalence to the president, or even appointed subordinates. You don't.

Again, I laugh.
Time will tell.
As Asked where is the proof he declassified anything? When did he do it? Who did he inform? How did he notify them? What is the proper disposition of declassified documents of this nature? Who do they belong to even if he did declassify them? Why did he depart the WH with them? What was the purpose/intent for taking them? Why didn't he just hand them over when asked?
Was there a breach or compromise in US security or HUMINT as a result of his actions? Who did he show them to? Who had unauthorized access to the documents? What Executive Privilege did he exercise in order to take them to his residence? At what point is his security clearance revoked once out of office?
The above is the reality of the situation with Trump. He does not care. The blinders you are wearing to this situation is a bit concerning.
Again, time will tell but your defense of him is not very convincing.
See previous post. LOL

 

[0nelilreb]

Suck it, maganistas

This describes perfectly how well it’s going so far for the left , when you get this excited over this stay. Ready , here it comes ..” you got him this time” !

 

[Hunerwadel]

All Trump needs to say is "I declassified all of them". There is nothing the DOJ or the curt can do about it.

He may eventually do that but it depends on what is in some of the documents. If he claims he declassified what turns out to be current war plans, ongoing covert operations, or info on foreign assets he may have some serious explaining to do. There may also be some documents with information about him or his family.

 

[evillawyer]

Haha

 

[evillawyer]

This the content I'm here for.

 

[825VOL]

He may eventually do that but it depends on what is in some of the documents. If he claims he declassified what turns out to be current war plans, ongoing covert operations, or info on foreign assets he may have some serious explaining to do. There may also be some documents with information about him or his family.

Sorry, but he doesn't have to justify why he declassified something. As President, he can declassify anything he wants for any reason he wants. The 3 letter agencies can bitch and moan all they like, but he ( as well as every other President) has that authority. It doesn't matter what information those documents contain.

 

[T Clifton]

Fully expect for the administration to delete this again

2015- We got him
2016- We got him
2017- We got him
2018- We got him
2019- We got him
2020- We got him
2021- We got him
2022- We got him


These are the years that media and people have thought they were going to get over on Donald J. Trump.
I have sources to back up these claims.

We'll see if the Volnation Moderators delete this post again.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Sorry, but he doesn't have to justify why he declassified something. As President, he can declassify anything he wants for any reason he wants. The 3 letter agencies can bitch and moan all they like, but he ( as well as every other President) has that authority. It doesn't matter what information those documents contain.

You sound like a liberal with this statement. He will have to at some point. No he cannot declassify anything without going through a series of procedures. You are missing the point and Trump is not a rule follower.

 

[825VOL]

You sound like a liberal with this statement. He will have to at some point. No he cannot declassify anything without going through a series of procedures. You are missing the point and Trump is not a rule follower.

The procedures are not laws. He, nor anyone else, is bound by procedures followed by other Presidents. The declassification of documents is in his sole discretion, period.

 

[lawgator1]

This the content I'm here for.

This goes back to the question I've been asking for weeks....

WHY? Why take them to begin with? Why not return them when asked ? And now, why do you need to see them prior to the DOJ figuring out what has gone on here?


This is a good day for the rule of law. Two of the three judges were Trump appointees and they are asking the same question....

Why?