Federal Indictment of Donald Trump

[volinbham]

At this point does it really even matter? Biden will get slightly less scrutiny and this will blow over, just like it did with Donny. SSDD.

It only matters on 2 fronts I can see - 1) mocking the Biden side for their hyperventilating about Trump and 2) reducing the likelihood that Trump gets charged for anything.

But yes in the big picture it doesn't matter and is just one more example of different standards of justice for the political elite vs everyone else. Business as usual.

 

[Jxn Vol]

This may be the only president in history that can truly claim ignorance about classified documents and mean it.

But he also doesn’t remember if he is wearing pants or not.

 

[OrangeTsar]

This may be the only president in history that can truly claim ignorance about classified documents and mean it.

But he also doesn’t remember if he is wearing pants or not.

 

[JOEY’S ALL VOL !!!]

At this point does it really even matter? Biden will get slightly less scrutiny and this will blow over, just like it did with Donny. SSDD.

True enough. Is that okay with you? Should it be? With anybody?

 

[0nelilreb]

You’re right, they are completely different situations. Biden has no valid defense.

This .. Biden can’t defend having any classified documents whatsoever regardless of how many or what security level .

 

[Orangeburst]

This .. Biden can’t defend having any classified documents whatsoever regardless of how many or what security level .

I personally dont have a problem with any of this whether Trump or Biden. **** how many ****ing times do I have to say it..it doesn't have to be paper.
They are trash docs because they have some classification assigned by some dumbass bureaucrats.
But CNN and others OMG..nuke codes.

The problem is the bureaucracy.

 

[hog88]

This .. Biden can’t defend having any classified documents whatsoever regardless of how many or what security level .

Obama could have said he declassified them but I think that ship has sailed.

 

[BreatheUT]

Not really. Trump didnt declassify. Its not a magic wand that applies post presidency. Doesnt matter if he HAD the power if he DIDN'T declassify.

There is no real distinction. Trump had higher clearance and more documents. Biden had lower clearance and fewer documents.

Trumps stuff were notes that dont seem all that important except for record keeping. And he fought turning them over, making them a bigger issue than they were. Biden's notes contain stuff about foreign relations. But he readily turned them over, so it never became an issue.

Biden had his for longer. Both kept them in unsecure locations, both will argue the others location is worse than theirs.

The only reason Trumos documents were an issue was because he fought it for some reason. If he let's them go it's a nothing burger.

Who told you this? Where did you get this information from? How do you know this?

 

[BreatheUT]

The issue, particularly for criminal charges, is intent.

Given what we know it would appear there is no intent behind Biden having the documents and it is almost certainly just a mistake when he left. The fact it is so few and they were found during a move strongly suggests that.

Trump, on the other hand, had a large number of them and from reports many were not secure in any way. Even worse, it is evident that Trump intended to keep them because he turned down multiple requests for their return.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be an investigation into it and I'm thinking we need some kind of official in the WH at the end of a term who is responsible for reviewing everything that leaves to make sure this does not happen again. But the dividing line between negligent and criminal in this situation is intent and we KNOW Trump had intent at least in keeping them and there is no evidence (and on the face of the situation no reason to think) that Biden had any intent.

And the question as to Trump remains why. Why on Earth would he keep so many documents when he'd been asked over and over to return them?

You seem to write things that are a waste of time and energy.

 

[BreatheUT]

This is a cover up.

 

[Orangeburst]

If I was a foreign agent I would get to the National Archives. ****ing treasure trove

 

[BreatheUT]

Something else for you Trumpliars to deny, dance around, hide, and whataboutism.
=================================
HOW DOES DECLASSIFICATION WORK?

There's also a detailed process for declassification with rules laid out under executive order. Typically, if a president wants to declassify something, he checks with the agency in charge, which has broad say in whether the information becomes public, Gerstell said.


If documents are declassified, there’s usually a painstaking process of blacking out what information still stays secret. “It’s not a question of a concept being declassified, or boxes of documents. It’s a word by word determination,” he said.


The declassification order must be memorialized and any agencies that are affected have to be notified, Moss said. The individual documents then have to be re-marked to show they’re no longer considered classified.


“It’s not clear what Jedi-like lawyers said that you could declassify things with a thought, but the courts are unlikely to embrace that claim,” said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who was a Republican witness during the first impeachment proceedings against Trump in 2019.

The Justice Department has said there is no indication that Trump took any steps to declassify the documents seized from his Florida home.

Source: Can a President Declassify Documents and How Does the Process Work? – NBC4 Washington

Yes, there is a procedure
President Obama issued Executive Order 13526. The document is long, but it lays out the procedures for declassifying information, including all of the mechanisms involved (there's a lot of Federal agencies with fingers in this pie). Ultimately, there is this

Sec. 3.7. National Declassification Center (a) There is established within the National Archives a National Declassification Center to streamline declassification processes, facilitate quality-assurance measures, and implement standardized training regarding the declassification of records determined to have permanent historical value. There shall be a Director of the Center who shall be appointed or removed by the Archivist in consultation with the Secretaries of State, Defense, Energy, and Homeland Security, the Attorney General, and the Director of National Intelligence.​

So there is a process for declassifying material. Neither Trump, nor Biden, have rescinded this Executive Order.

Source: Does a US President have to file any paperwork to declassify information?

Thanks Miles.

I hope you get an editor for your book. I bet you got a ton of good ones ready to share with us. Don't get mad and leave your pad anywhere for anyone else to use.

 

[BreatheUT]

Has there been a more corrupt DOJ than the current one?

 

[Wireless1]

Has there been a more corruption DOJ than the current one?

I don’t think we want to find out

 

[AM64]

It's just how things work and people need to quit making things up. The fact is outside of a few nuclear and weapon related subjects which are specifically spelled out in law a POTUS can think it, waive a magic wand, whisper it to his dog and declassify almost anything. He doesn't have to announce it, fill out paperwork or follow a procedure.

Documents originated by and classified within the military as containing technical details and strategies as well as documents originated by and classified within intelligence agencies should never fall within a president's magic declassifying wand. He doesn't have the details on the why, what, when, who kind of details ... doesn't matter if he is nominally head of the military and intelligence agencies. The president should have the right to request those documents be declassified IF the reasons for classification no longer apply. I don't give a rip what a president does to documents classified within his own house or his clowns over at State or most other agencies; it's the ones that have to do with real national security that matter ... not the ones that deal with potential political embarrassment.

 

[AM64]

Trump is funded by the Russians?

I never indicated either should be free of punishment or that they were equal cases. I was merely responding to LGs comments and pointing out where there are similarities between the two situations which he was downplaying.

At this point we simply do not know if there was intentional conduct on the part of Biden though it's hard to imagine that the documents all being in a folder together were just accidentally taken. Trump certainly has been less cooperative once the discovery of documents was made and perhaps that raises additional violations.

The problem is that we don't know why the documents were classified. Were they done so because of political expediency or to prevent embarrassment to the administration, or did the documents contain information important to national security that would put us or military/intelligence members and technology at risk. There's a big difference in giving up information that could change the course of a conflict or invalidate weapons systems vs information says the president of such and such banana republic is a corrupt fool and don't believe anything that passes his lips.

If a clandestine raid like the one to take out bin Laden becomes bragging rights for a president it's problematic if it antagonizes a host country but that's on the president and diplomats. It if reveals classified strategies and equipment used and compromises further missions, then as far as I'm concerned the bragging president is walking treasonous grounds ... same thing if he compromises names of participants and makes them targets.

One of our biggest failings is our fondness for top down management in an overly complex world. The guy at the top may have the "authority" but few have the knowledge to direct what should be rightfully delegated to a person who actually knows what's going on at the operational level. Micromanagement and arrogance at the top are going to destroy us. Everything is far more complex than it was in the days when people at the top thought they knew what they were doing and were closer to being right about that.

 

[AM64]

It's just how things work and people need to quit making things up. The fact is outside of a few nuclear and weapon related subjects which are specifically spelled out in law a POTUS can think it, waive a magic wand, whisper it to his dog and declassify almost anything. He doesn't have to announce it, fill out paperwork or follow a procedure.

Really bad practice unless it's BS that originates within his own office and jeopardizes nobody else. The politicians we elect are too damn dumb to allow out ot the house on their own.

 

[AM64]

As a one time holder of a security clearance, I know that any differences in scenario are meaningless under the applicable statutes. The holder of the clearance assumes a positive duty to properly handle and secure all compartmentalized information. Even if Biden had no idea he had these documents, he is still guilty of irresponsible conduct.
You aren’t simply required to NOT have the documents, you are required to PROACTIVELY protect them. The very act he claims surprised that he has them indicates he never took his responsibility seriously.

I don't get why there wasn't a custodian for the documents, how they went out from a secure repository without being signed out by a qualified individual who assumes responsibility, and how nobody could miss the fact that they were never returned. That's not acceptable.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Thanks Miles.
I hope you get an editor for your book. I bet you got a ton of good ones ready to share with us. Don't get mad and leave your pad anywhere for anyone else to use.

Oh, so you're a betting man, I see. And I should pay attention to a gambler?

 

[hog88]

Has there been a more corrupt DOJ than the current one?

Holder’s was equally or more corrupt than this one.

 

[hog88]

Documents originated by and classified within the military as containing technical details and strategies as well as documents originated by and classified within intelligence agencies should never fall within a president's magic declassifying wand. He doesn't have the details on the why, what, when, who kind of details ... doesn't matter if he is nominally head of the military and intelligence agencies. The president should have the right to request those documents be declassified IF the reasons for classification no longer apply. I don't give a rip what a president does to documents classified within his own house or his clowns over at State or most other agencies; it's the ones that have to do with real national security that matter ... not the ones that deal with potential political embarrassment.

The CIC should never have to ask the military for permission.

 

[hog88]

Really bad practice unless it's BS that originates within his own office and jeopardizes nobody else. The politicians we elect are too damn dumb to allow out ot the house on their own.

That has to be the way it works otherwise (and I believe this is what we have now) you have unelected bureaucrats with more authority and power than the president.

 

[hog88]

I don't get why there wasn't a custodian for the documents, how they went out from a secure repository without being signed out by a qualified individual who assumes responsibility, and how nobody could miss the fact that they were never returned. That's not acceptable.

Exactly! I mentioned this when the stink about Trump having classified documents. The real question that should be asked is how in the hell did these documents go missing for month/years without anyone knowing.

 

[lawgator1]

I swear, Trump has nine lives. No matter what he does someone, or some thing, intervenes to save his fat arse.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I am increasingly convinced that this whole Biden document controversy is actually being released and driven by fellow Democrats in an effort to get Biden to not run in 2024. It is all friendly fire. Look at the timing. This came out within days of headlines stating that Biden was preparing to announce his 2024 candidacy. He has outlived his usefulness to the Party and it is time for him to step down.