Federal Indictment of Donald Trump

[OrangeBoro]

It appears the swamp and the commies have gotten their way. This country can’t be saved and isn’t worth saving. Time for a reset

 

[turbovol]

There might not have been a Trump WH had the Dems not tried to force a Hillary one. Blame goes both ways. And it's we the people who are paying the price for the idiots the parties keep foisting upon us.

Only fools compare Clinton to the gangster. Your comment is utter nonsense.

 

[evillawyer]

Which other politicians acted as the gangster did with respect to classified documents and should be similarly charged?

Oh, you must be new to @Weezer 's schtick. He loves appearing to be "objective" and "balanced" by both-siding everything. Amazingly, there's nothing that a Republican can do that hasn't already been done by a Democrat. And @Weezer thinks any difference in severity or intent or the number of times something is done is of no relevance, as long as some democrat may have done something remotely similar once somewhere many years ago, the two parties are really the same.

 

[lostsheep]

It appears the swamp and the commies have gotten their way sheer ignorance of Trump finally caught up with him. This country can’t be saved and isn’t worth saving. Time for a reset

 

[OrangeBoro]

Your name fits you perfectly commie

 

[lostsheep]

Your name fits you perfectly commie

You mad bro? Lock him up! Lock him up! Good times ahead for ole Donny!!

 

[RockyTop85]

I'm by no means have a clue other than layman's logic and that is if a president can "wave a magic wand" and declassify then there was no crime in him having the documents so how can there be criminal intent.

Two things.

The first essentially boils down to proving that he waved the wand. Second, whether the wand has unlimited power.

1. If the president is the be-all, end-all of classified materials, then classification is a system that exists to give notice to everybody else, including former presidents, what they and others have access to. If there is no record of an order declassifying material and no reflection on the face of the document, then what proof is there that it was actually declassified?

Without documentation, it does go towards intent. A former president or vice president, could argue a number of different defenses, like that it was an honest mistake. Hillary, Pence, and Biden could all argue that. The difference is that the cover up tends to show that there was criminal intent and that he knew what he was doing was wrong. I concede that there are other things he could argue about why he did that (didn’t think he’d get a fair shake from these Biden cronies) but IMO it’s a legitimate jury issue at the point where there is no recorded order declassifying the material.

2. I really don’t think it’s ever been explicitly decided, but presidential powers, like congressional powers, have to be an act of authority granted by the constitution. So congress doesn’t have police power, that’s theoretically reserved to the states. Authority to withhold state secrets derives from president’s delegation of authority over national security. If his action doesn’t serve the nation’s security interest, then he shouldn’t have power to declassify it.

Two is, in my view, less likely to bear fruit in court because courts won’t/shouldn’t want to be essentially usurping the president’s national security decisions, but it is also the more significant concern. If he retained nuclear secrets, attack plans, unmasking material, or some such, then I don’t really care what happens to him. If it’s love letters from Kim Jong Un, then they shouldn’t have indicted him.

 

[sonofUT62]

Which other politicians acted as the gangster did with respect to classified documents and should be similarly charged?

Sandy Berger.

 

[C-south]

Which other politicians acted as the gangster did with respect to classified documents and should be similarly charged?

We’ll probably never know. That’s how it works for one side.

 

[RockyTop85]

Feakless example.

I agree. That’s why I made fun of you for it.

 

[OrangeBoro]

You mad bro? Lock him up! Lock him up! Good times ahead for ole Donny!!

Every American should be. But you all are fine with it because it’s not your side. I doubt it ever happens but I sure it happens to a dem one day.

 

[Weezer]

Which other politicians acted as the gangster did with respect to classified documents and should be similarly charged?

Remember when Hillary Clinton used private servers and devices that she then had destroyed? Yet nothing happened to her. Biden and Pence, both with classified documents from their days as VPs, which is illegal, yet they'll face nothing. Well, I say nothing, but if Pence actually becomes a threat, we'll see. The simple fact is, politicians break the law often, but they're basically policing themselves, so they're allowed to get away with it. How anyone could even deny the corruption in DC is beyond me. Yet they get away with it all the time. Yet, here we have Trump, who many consider outside "the political machine", and it's open season on him. Don't get me wrong, he IS a POS human being. In the grand scheme of things, I have no problem with him facing charges. My problem is this is NOT about justice. "Justice" is a mask to hide the political ramifications. If we were seeking "justice", others wouldn't be allowed to get away with their crimes.

 

[TN Ribs]

“As president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t,” Trump said of “secret” military information he had retained, according to CNN, which obtained a transcript of the tape. The network reported last week that the Justice Department has audio of the former president admitting he kept a classified document about a proposed attack plan on Iran and acknowledging he knew he couldn’t declassify it.

“Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this,” Trump also says on the tape, according to the transcript. “This was done by the military and given to me.”

“All sorts of stuff – pages long, look,” he adds later. “Wait a minute, let’s see here. I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this.”

What part of this aren't you comprehending? You've planted your flag on a hill that Donny himself undermined.

Quite frankly, it doesn't even matter if they were classified or not although it certainly ups the ante that he had a great deal of classified documents. He had no right to possess the material once Biden was sworn in, the second Biden was sworn in the documents belonged to the Federal Government. They gave Trump ample opportunities to cooperate but since he doesn't have an ounce of integrity he refused and now he's been indicted. It's his own damn fault.

The most amusing thing about this is that Trump strengthened the law and the penalties for illegal possession of classified documents in 2018.

 

[OrangeBoro]

We’ll probably never know. That’s how it works for one side.

Oh we know, the dementia patient currently occupying the WH for starters

 

[Weezer]

Only fools compare Clinton to the gangster. Your comment is utter nonsense.

lmao The Clintons are worse than Trump. Only an idiot refuses to see that.

 

[sonofUT62]

Only fools compare Clinton to the gangster. Your comment is utter nonsense.

That is technically true since a stunning number of people who have done so have committed suicide. Hilary if you read this I think you’re way better than Trump.

 

[Weezer]

Oh, you must be new to @Weezer 's schtick. He loves appearing to be "objective" and "balanced" by both-siding everything. Amazingly, there's nothing that a Republican can do that hasn't already been done by a Democrat. And @Weezer thinks any difference in severity or intent or the number of times something is done is of no relevance, as long as some democrat may have done something remotely similar once somewhere many years ago, the two parties are really the same.

Baaaaa. You are still and always will be a sheep. It's why you and ND40 didn't last.

 

[RockyTop85]

Oh, you must be new to @Weezer 's schtick. He loves appearing to be "objective" and "balanced" by both-siding everything. Amazingly, there's nothing that a Republican can do that hasn't already been done by a Democrat. And @Weezer thinks any difference in severity or intent or the number of times something is done is of no relevance, as long as some democrat may have done something remotely similar once somewhere many years ago, the two parties are really the same.

You’ve misstated his schtick.

It’s being openly biased while consistently insisting he’s unbiased.

 

[OrangeBoro]

Quite frankly, it doesn't even matter if they were classified or not although it certainly ups the ante that he had a great deal of classified documents. He had no right to possess the material once Biden was sworn in, the second Biden was sworn in the documents belonged to the Federal Government. They gave Trump ample opportunities to cooperate but since he doesn't have an ounce of integrity he refused and now he's been indicted. It's his own damn fault.

The most amusing thing about this is that Trump strengthened the law and the penalties for illegal possession of classified documents in 2018.

Ok great. Then next up a former VP who had documents sitting in his garage

 

[Weezer]

You’ve misstated his schtick.

It’s being openly biased while consistently insisting he’s unbiased.

I've admitted to leaning more right than left, but I don't affiliate with either party. I don't think either Trump or Biden should be in the WH, but the parties so many swear allegiance to won't give us better options.

The Democrats are more insidious than the Republicans because they are much smarter in their duplicity. They do things Republicans would never think up, then the Republicans try to copy. But both parties are eating away at the foundations of this country IMO.

If you're going to try and characterize me, please get it right.

Not sure when I pissed in your cheerios but it's kind of amusing you feel the need to try and take personal swipes. Or is this a secret crush situation?

 

[TN Ribs]

Ok great. Then next up a former VP who had documents sitting in his garage

Not sure what you don't understand about "opportunities to cooperate". Trump could have avoided all of this if he simply cooperated like everyone else but because he's a devious scumbag he decided to obstruct and conspire.

 

[RockyTop85]

I've admitted to leaning more right than left, but I don't affiliate with either party. I don't think either Trump or Biden should be in the WH, but the parties so many swear allegiance to won't give us better options.

The Democrats are more insidious than the Republicans because they are much smarter in their duplicity. They do things Republicans would never think up, then the Republicans try to copy. But both parties are eating away at the foundations of this country IMO.

If you're going to try and characterize me, please get it right.

Not sure when I pissed in your cheerios but it's kind of amusing you feel the need to try and take personal swipes. Or is this a secret crush situation?

Thank you I think you’ve made my point. @evillawyer consider yourself chastened.

 

[VolStrom]

I've admitted to leaning more right than left, but I don't affiliate with either party. I don't think either Trump or Biden should be in the WH, but the parties so many swear allegiance to won't give us better options.

The Democrats are more insidious than the Republicans because they are much smarter in their duplicity. They do things Republicans would never think up, then the Republicans try to copy. But both parties are eating away at the foundations of this country IMO.

If you're going to try and characterize me, please get it right.

Not sure when I pissed in your cheerios but it's kind of amusing you feel the need to try and take personal swipes. Or is this a secret crush situation?

Watch out Weez, the liberals are setting up to pounce.

 

[hog88]

Not sure what you don't understand about "opportunities to cooperate". Trump could have avoided all of this if he simply cooperated like everyone else but because he's a devious scumbag he decided to obstruct and conspire.

He did cooperate to a point. He did give back boxes of documents after the first request well before the raid, what was in those boxes and what he kept after that we'll probably never know but after that it became a dispute as to whether what he retained was legal for him to have or not.

 

[evillawyer]

I've admitted to leaning more right than left, but I don't affiliate with either party. I don't think either Trump or Biden should be in the WH, but the parties so many swear allegiance to won't give us better options.

The Democrats are more insidious than the Republicans because they are much smarter in their duplicity. They do things Republicans would never think up, then the Republicans try to copy. But both parties are eating away at the foundations of this country IMO.

If you're going to try and characterize me, please get it right.

Not sure when I pissed in your cheerios but it's kind of amusing you feel the need to try and take personal swipes. Or is this a secret crush situation?

You know, you can just say this: "I'm sure members of both parties have erred in their treatment of classified records. Neither party is free of blame. But what Trump did is truly unprecedented." You'd get your both sides in, and recognize that what Trump did is really in its own league.