Five Players That Got Screwed By The Hall

[zjcvols]

No steroid guys. No Pete Rose. No guys currently on the ballot. Just five guys I think should really have their candidacy reviewed again and should be in the hall of fame.

Kenny Lofton
Jim Edmonds
David Cone
Lou Whitaker
Willie Randolph

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Dale Murphy was better than all of these...

 

[zjcvols]

Dale Murphy was better than all of these...

Prime? Maybe. I think Murphy has a case even if the advanced numbers don’t love him.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Prime? Maybe. I think Murphy has a case even if the advanced numbers don’t love him.

From 1980-1987 he was about as good of a player as there was. The issue was the rest of the career had little to it...

 

[zjcvols]

From 1980-1987 he was about as good of a player as there was. The issue was the rest of the career had little to it...

He has that awesome six year run and it fell apart. I will say, a lot of 80’s/90’s guy got screwed because of the steroid era and the BBWAA really did a terrible job of recognizing players from that era. McGriff got in but I hated that the hall was like “I’m not voting for McGwire” but instead of giving that vote to a player that didn’t do steroids, they just left it empty.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

He has that awesome six year run and it fell apart. I will say, a lot of 80’s/90’s guy got screwed because of the steroid era and the BBWAA really did a terrible job of recognizing players from that era. McGriff got in but I hated that the hall was like “I’m not voting for McGwire” but instead of giving that vote to a player that didn’t do steroids, they just left it empty.

Looking at WAR, the 7 year peak was right in the ballpark of induction.

He feels much more of a HOF player than Harold Baines, for example....

I'm a small hall guy so neither would be in but Baines was never a top 5 player...

 

[zjcvols]

Looking at WAR, the 7 year peak was right in the ballpark of induction.

He feels much more of a HOF player than Harold Baines, for example....

I'm a small hall guy so neither would be in but Baines was never a top 5 player...

Baines was such an albatross of a selection that La Russa pushed through. It still upsets me he got in.

I think Lofton and Edmonds got screwed. The totals aren’t legendary but had they come on the ballot five years later people would have appreciated the defense/OBP numbers of those guys much more and gotten more love. They got mixed in with the steroid guys and Lofton played on so many teams he got lost in the shuffle when he was useful till the end.

 

[YankeeVol]

Lofton: More career WAR than Guererro, Ortiz, Helton, and Mauer.

 

[C/O]

I go to the Hall a few times a year as a member. There are WAY too many guys in there than I care for there to be. The Hall should be small.

 

[n_huffhines]

Dale Murphy was better than all of these...

I came here to see how quickly we got to Dale Murphy.

I think Dale Murphy's got some holes in his HOF case, but the reason I say yes is that his run as a top player neatly fit in the 80's and perfectly bookended the decade. He was 2nd in baseball in HR's and RBI's. To matter that much for an entire decade is HOF worthy.

 

[05_never_again]

I came here to see how quickly we got to Dale Murphy.

I think Dale Murphy's got some holes in his HOF case, but the reason I say yes is that his run as a top player neatly fit in the 80's and perfectly bookended the decade. He was 2nd in baseball in HR's and RBI's. To matter that much for an entire decade is HOF worthy.

Murph is one of those guys I'm surprised they haven't let in because the media liked him and he was really marketable. He has borderline HOF numbers and was well-liked. Those guys usually get in.

The whole "eh, his numbers are borderline" argument only really gets trotted out when they media didn't like the player, like with Curt Schilling. Similarly, they only apply the "character clause" to guys they don't like either.

 

[VolTull]

Murph is one of those guys I'm surprised they haven't let in because the media liked him and he was really marketable. He has borderline HOF numbers and was well-liked. Those guys usually get in.

The whole "eh, his numbers are borderline" argument only really gets trotted out when they media didn't like the player, like with Curt Schilling. Similarly, they only apply the "character clause" to guys they don't like either.

His kids called him Mr. Smurph "privately". He loved it.

 

[85SugarVol]

Looking at WAR, the 7 year peak was right in the ballpark of induction.

He feels much more of a HOF player than Harold Baines, for example....

I'm a small hall guy so neither would be in but Baines was never a top 5 player...

+1

Murphy was a 6 Win player for 7 seasons - not too many pull that off.

Baines never even had a 5 Win season. Never cracked 5.0 in even oWAR.

Murphy was 2 short of 400 HR
2x MVP
5x Gold Glove
7x All Star

He was a complete ball player.

 

[85SugarVol]

Curt Schilling from ‘97-‘04

132-71, 3.24 ERA, 142 ERA+, 9.6 K/9, 7 Win Player

3x WS
1x WS MVP

79.5 WAR, 216 Wins, 3.46 ERA

 

[vols 30]

No steroid guys. No Pete Rose. No guys currently on the ballot. Just five guys I think should really have their candidacy reviewed again and should be in the hall of fame.

Kenny Lofton
Jim Edmonds
David Cone
Lou Whitaker
Willie Randolph

None of these guys should be in. Good players that had long careers, but not HOF worthy. Willie Randolph hit 54 career HR and was .276 hitter. Come on, man.

 

[85SugarVol]

None of these guys should be in. Good players that had long careers, but not HOF worthy. Willie Randolph hit 54 career HR and was .276 hitter. Come on, man.

Willie Randolph put up 65.9 WAR

67.9 - Ryne Sandberg
67.0 - Roberto Alomar

65.5 - Craig Biggio
63.9 - Jackie Robinson
55.6 - Joe Gordon
51.4 - Bobby Doerr

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

If Harold Baines is in, all of these guys should be in..


Harold Baines is like Jamal Crawford in the NBA. Couldn't play defense, never was a Top player, but stayed around and accumulated stats for 15+ years....

 

[05_never_again]

If Harold Baines is in, all of these guys should be in..


Harold Baines is like Jamal Crawford in the NBA. Couldn't play defense, never was a Top player, but stayed around and accumulated stats for 15+ years....

...and was very well-liked by numerous important people. I think people (not saying you specifically, just generally) underestimate how much HOFs (and the Baseball HOF in particular) are a clique. It's no different than high school. Baines being in the baseball HOF is probably the best evidence of that.

If baseball at large was indifferent about him personally, or didn't like him, he wouldn't have even sniffed the HOF.

 

[85SugarVol]

...and was very well-liked by numerous important people. I think people (not saying you specifically, just generally) underestimate how much HOFs (and the Baseball HOF in particular) are a clique. It's no different than high school. Baines being in the baseball HOF is probably the best evidence of that.

If baseball at large was indifferent about him personally, or didn't like him, he wouldn't have even sniffed the HOF.

It’s certainly why Curt Schilling isn’t in the HOF.

 

[85SugarVol]

Guys who shouldn’t be in the HOF [if you’re gonna exclude Bonds, Rocket, ARod]?

David Ortiz
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez


*Jose Altuve

 

[zjcvols]

Guys who shouldn’t be in the HOF [if you’re gonna exclude Bonds, Rocket, ARod]?

David Ortiz
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez


*Jose Altuve

Piazza and Rodriguez have no proof other than backne and Canseco wrote a sentence in the book.

I’m shocked Ortiz got in as easy as he did. Unbelievable what the Boston media and Manfred did for him to protect the Red Sox. Poor Sosa’s name got on the same exact list and everyone pointed him as a cheater.

 

[GAVol]

I’m shocked Ortiz got in as easy as he did

No lie. Just underscores how random it gets when sportswriters pretend they have a higher calling. No definitive proof that Ortiz ended up on the list before testing was mandated but really hard to believe he wasn’t doing it like everyone else trying to hit for power.

 

[85SugarVol]

Piazza and Rodriguez have no proof other than backne and Canseco wrote a sentence in the book.

I’m shocked Ortiz got in as easy as he did. Unbelievable what the Boston media and Manfred did for him to protect the Red Sox. Poor Sosa’s name got on the same exact list and everyone pointed him as a cheater.

Ortiz is certainly the most egregious. Ridiculous that he’s in.

 

[05_never_again]

No lie. Just underscores how random it gets when sportswriters pretend they have a higher calling. No definitive proof that Ortiz ended up on the list before testing was mandated but really hard to believe he wasn’t doing it like everyone else trying to hit for power.

Ortiz's career trajectory is, let's call it, suspicious. He's a completely anonymous, AAAA-level player for 6 seasons in Minnesota. Signs with Boston, finishes 5th in AL MVP voting in 2003, and the rest is history. But he's a lovable guy who provided great soundbites for the media and was great for the City of Boston after the marathon bombing, so let's let him in. Again, just shows the power of likeability.

 

[TBrown]

Ortiz's career trajectory is, let's call it, suspicious. He's a completely anonymous, AAAA-level player for 6 seasons in Minnesota. Signs with Boston, finishes 5th in AL MVP voting in 2003, and the rest is history. But he's a lovable guy who provided great soundbites for the media and was great for the City of Boston after the marathon bombing, so let's let him in. Again, just shows the power of likeability.

I’m all for narrative commentary as it relates to the baseball HoF but that’s not an accurate assessment of David Ortiz’s career.