FL LB DeMario Tolan (LSU commit)

[sjt18]

Clemson actually was patient....the others I agree with you on.

Dabo won 9 games in his first full season and 10 games and a ACC championship in his 3rd full season.

I can have that kind of patience any day.

He made himself legitimate within the first 3 years. From there his recruiting and results continued to improve. He was never stable... he was consistently improving his roster and ultimately his results. He would not have gotten the recruits that made his later success so great if he'd won 6-9 games for the first 4 or 5 years like these guys seem to believe the right formula for UT.

 

[sjt18]

I'm gonna keep on being being positive.....he's a Vol!!

I have no idea... but thanks for that attempt to lift the tone.

 

[Vol8188]

Yeah we desperately need talent on D. It’s really the only thing stopping us for contending for championships

Dline talent is far better than the rest of the defensive talent.

Although if you mean in this class particularly, I would have to agree dline has been a disappointment so far

 

[bigl3327]

There are various ways to recruit. You can recruit from on field success. You can recruit by building strong relationships over time. You can buy recruits. You can recruit by putting the "shine" on for a kid. In this new age of the portal, it's best to build the strong relationships. You can get kids to commit or flip with "shine" (used car sales approach), but those kids are likely to decommit or end up in the portal later. It's all smoke and mirrors, and false promises. Our coaches are recruiting the right way, but it takes time. Patience is not something most Vol fans have, but that's what's required for long term success. Especially after over a decade of mediocrity. '23 will be much better. Keep that same energy we had during the season. GBO!

 

[jp1]

Dabo won 9 games in his first full season and 10 games and a ACC championship in his 3rd full season.

I can have that kind of patience any day.

He made himself legitimate within the first 3 years. From there his recruiting and results continued to improve. He was never stable... he was consistently improving his roster and ultimately his results. He would not have gotten the recruits that made his later success so great if he'd won 6-9 games for the first 4 or 5 years like these guys seem to believe the right formula for UT.

Perhaps you're right. However, if you take Dabo's interim year into account then his record isn't much different than Butch's here in the first 4 years. Dabo's success definitely came at a different rate than the other programs you mentioned.

 

[drylo]

Lifting UK to mediocrity even considering the weak schedule... is an accomplishment. But is that really the kind of "stability" we want at UT?

Bama... has never been patient. LSU has never been patient. UF has never been patient. tOSU has never been patient. Clemson was not patient. All of those programs fired "mediocre", "stable coaches.

I actually think Heupel is the right kind of coach and leader to turn things around. But just like any other competitive enterprise in life... "stable" is a myth. You are either rising or sinking though sometimes you may not recognize the sinking until it is too late... see Butch Jones.

Maybe so, but I actually think things can turn pretty quickly in this business — just look at Florida this year. And I think a major contributing factor to the abrupt program collapse is the toxicity of an impatient and entitled fanbase. I believe this is what happened with Butch to a significant degree.

Heupel may not be quite the hype man that Butch was, but he’s a much better coach. Just let him do his thing. Maybe he doesn’t build it fast enough for some people, but unless we get incredibly lucky with a miracle hire, burning it down in two years is almost certainly a worse path… the problem is that it can almost become inevitable if the fanbase turns and all of the energy around the program just becomes negative and toxic. That is the lesson to learn from UK.

 

[volsfan_17]

There are various ways to recruit. You can recruit from on field success. You can recruit by building strong relationships over time. You can buy recruits. You can recruit by putting the "shine" on for a kid. In this new age of the portal, it's best to build the strong relationships. You can get kids to commit or flip with "shine" (used car sales approach), but those kids are likely to decommit or end up in the portal later. It's all smoke and mirrors, and false promises. Our coaches are recruiting the right way, but it takes time. Patience is not something most Vol fans have, but that's what's required for long term success. Especially after over a decade of mediocrity. '23 will be much better. Keep that same energy we had during the season. GBO!

That's a good point, makes me wonder how many kids Butch actually would've lost if the portal had been in full swing?

 

[orange parmejohn]

If you think our offense is middle of the pack then you have issues. Let these guys do their job. They did a good job with the portal last year and there is no reason they will not do the same this year.

What am I doing that is preventing them from doing their job?

 

[sjt18]

Maybe so, but I actually think things can turn pretty quickly in this business — just look at Florida this year. And I think a major contributing factor to the abrupt program collapse is the toxicity of an impatient and entitled fanbase.

Toxicity? Yes. The venom that UF and UT fans have often used when a coach didn't meet their expectations often goes too far. But the expectations for winning? No. Mullen succeeded to the degree that he did at MSU because Mississippi generally has quite a few undervalued, "good" HS players. Not enough talent to win championships but enough to do what he did. And the competition for those guys usually isn't tough. But that isn't good enough at UF. As much as I hate the Gators... it shouldn't be good enough for them or UT.

I believe this is what happened with Butch to a significant degree.

LOL... Do WHAT? Jones never should have been hired. Anything more than a surface scratch of his record would have shown a guys who played a whole bunch of losers to build a "record". He was an empty suit... a used car salesman. He happened to arrive at a time when a bunch of UT legacies and homers were in the recruiting pool. He squandered that opportunity by underperforming the talent on every single roster he had from first to last. He is a ridiculously incompetent coach who should have been recognized and fired before he was. Showing "patience" with Jones would have had UT looking up at mediocre.

Heupel may not be quite the hype man that Butch was, but he’s a much better coach. Just let him do his thing. Maybe he doesn’t build it fast enough for some people, but unless we get incredibly lucky with a miracle hire, burning it down in two years is almost certainly a worse path… the problem is that it can almost become inevitable if the fanbase turns and all of the energy around the program just becomes negative and toxic. That is the lesson to learn from UK.

The reality is that UK is used to losing and has no realistic expectation to go any higher than they are. I'm surprised that Stoops didn't leave when he had a chance... on the other hand he's got a good paying gig with no real expectations or fear of consequences. He could. go 6-6 for the next four seasons and still not be in danger. That's the beauty of stable mediocrity... at least for the head football coach.

I like Heupel and have more hope in him as both a leader and a coach than I have anyone in the past 25 years including Fulmer. But he has to validate himself in the first 3 years and 4 maximum. If he doesn't then no matter how good he is... he won't get the players he needs to win. Then that fanbase you are so critical of... will have a choice of accepting a very well-funded and resourced mediocre program... or firing him.

That's a pretty easy choice for me.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

BJM needs to step up and get some ILBs here

 

[VolInDayton]

If he were going with LSU I would think that Kelly would want him to publicaly confirm his commitment for some stability before signing day. But that's probably just me being positive.

 

[sjt18]

Perhaps you're right. However, if you take Dabo's interim year into account then his record isn't much different than Butch's here in the first 4 years. Dabo's success definitely came at a different rate than the other programs you mentioned.

Why would you count the interim year against him?

But no... it is quite different from Jones. He won his division in his first full season then the conference in his 4th. His 6 win second season was the anomaly even looking at his first 5 years.

Is there an exception that you know of in recent history where a championship coach did not have pretty quick success? If Heupel can put together a 9 or 10 win season in the next 2 years then I think he will be on his way. IMO he is the kind of guy who may always do better in the portal than with HS recruits. As someone else mentioned, he may not have the "flash" that other coaches have. But portal players have often seen that... and realized that what they want is a solid, trustworthy coach.

 

[jp1]

Why would you count the interim year against him?

But no... it is quite different from Jones. He won his division in his first full season then the conference in his 4th. His 6 win second season was the anomaly even looking at his first 5 years.

Is there an exception that you know of in recent history where a championship coach did not have pretty quick success? If Heupel can put together a 9 or 10 win season in the next 2 years then I think he will be on his way. IMO he is the kind of guy who may always do better in the portal than with HS recruits. As someone else mentioned, he may not have the "flash" that other coaches have. But portal players have often seen that... and realized that what they want is a solid, trustworthy coach.

I'm not disagreeing with you, if you go back and read my original post. I also stated that their record was similar the first 4 years if you count the interim year that he head coached 7 games (was the WR coach an AHC to start the season). This is factual.

Having said all of that, I certainly agree with you on Heupel. I think for us to be successful in the NIL age, we are going to have to build most of our success out of the portal, at least initially until we get on more solid footing.

 

[BelieveTheHeup93]

There are various ways to recruit. You can recruit from on field success. You can recruit by building strong relationships over time. You can buy recruits. You can recruit by putting the "shine" on for a kid. In this new age of the portal, it's best to build the strong relationships. You can get kids to commit or flip with "shine" (used car sales approach), but those kids are likely to decommit or end up in the portal later. It's all smoke and mirrors, and false promises. Our coaches are recruiting the right way, but it takes time. Patience is not something most Vol fans have, but that's what's required for long term success. Especially after over a decade of mediocrity. '23 will be much better. Keep that same energy we had during the season. GBO!

If you’re winning ball games and those recruits are playing they’re not entering the portal. I don’t know about you, but personally I would LOVE some 2014-2016 Butch Jones era “shine” combined with the schematic advantage this coaching staff brings right now

 

[NighthawkVol]

Dabo won 9 games in his first full season and 10 games and a ACC championship in his 3rd full season.

I can have that kind of patience any day.

He made himself legitimate within the first 3 years. From there his recruiting and results continued to improve. He was never stable... he was consistently improving his roster and ultimately his results. He would not have gotten the recruits that made his later success so great if he'd won 6-9 games for the first 4 or 5 years like these guys seem to believe the right formula for UT.

You skipped his 2nd season.

 

[bigl3327]

If you’re winning ball games and those recruits are playing they’re not entering the portal. I don’t know about you, but personally I would LOVE some 2014-2016 Butch Jones era “shine” combined with the schematic advantage this coaching staff brings right now

Those Butch classes had some nice pieces, but also the most attrition I've ever seen before the portal.

 

[Volfan1000]

Any chance this guy signs with UT?

 

[BelieveTheHeup93]

Those Butch classes had some nice pieces, but also the most attrition I've ever seen before the portal.

Because they weren’t playing. The bulk of your class should be built the right way, but for game changing talent you do everything necessary to land them

 

[Revived2002]

Maybe so, but I actually think things can turn pretty quickly in this business — just look at Florida this year. And I think a major contributing factor to the abrupt program collapse is the toxicity of an impatient and entitled fanbase. I believe this is what happened with Butch to a significant degree.

Heupel may not be quite the hype man that Butch was, but he’s a much better coach. Just let him do his thing. Maybe he doesn’t build it fast enough for some people, but unless we get incredibly lucky with a miracle hire, burning it down in two years is almost certainly a worse path… the problem is that it can almost become inevitable if the fanbase turns and all of the energy around the program just becomes negative and toxic. That is the lesson to learn from UK.

We should grab a beer sometime

Agree 100% with everything you wrote!

 

[bigl3327]

Because they weren’t playing. The bulk of your class should be built the right way, but for game changing talent you do everything necessary to land them

Kids transferred because they were lied to. When you recruit under false pretenses, that's what happens. The whole mindset of "by any means necessary" is how you end up with a toxic program and lose your locker room. If there is no trust, there is no buy in.

 

[RiseToTheTop]

I could see the same thing happening to a Mizzou or S. Carolina with their current coaches. Seem similiar to Butch when it comes to recruiting and all the salesman bs

 

[UTMVol76]

If he were going with LSU I would think that Kelly would want him to publicaly confirm his commitment for some stability before signing day. But that's probably just me being positive.

I think you make a great point here. It's to our advantage that this is still quiet.

 

[barrylee]

People are already talking about how pathetic our class is. I mean the unreal expectations from TN fans is what’s pathetic. Some think because the rest of the TN coaches could recruit Heupel should be able to. Yet they fail to realize what kind of hole Pruitt left Heupel in.

Who the he'll has hijacked your computer? This makes 2 posts in a row I have liked, don't think I've ever done that before. Lol

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Any chance this guy signs with UT?

Yes

 

[VolzMan53]