Follow the Logic - QB

[vegasvolfan]

We all have seen the play of Joe Milton during the first 3 games. Some/most of us are ready to see Nico have more snaps during meaningful games. I think Heuple/Halzle agree with us and have since before the season. Here is where logic (or the lack thereof) comes in: On Sept 6th Heupel said that Nico was not redshirting this season and that the coaching staff would play him "when the opportunity arose"

Vols' freshman QB Nico Iamaleava will not redshirt, Josh Heupel says

The Vols' highly touted freshman QB is expected to see the field plenty this season.

tennessee.rivals.com

I think Heupel/Halzle already knew that Milton was not going to be a top tier QB in the SEC and knew they would wind up playing Nico sooner or later this season if Milton played like he has. Otherwise why would you not say we plan to play Nico in 4 games (unless there is an injury to Milton) and move on, Why waste a redshirt year if you do not plan to play him?

I am not saying bench Milton and play Nico starting with UTSA and ride him no matter what. I disagree with this and think we should see a few series for Nico over the next few games that are planned out and the plays are scripted to his strengths to "break" him in to college/SEC play.

I don’t want Nico playing behind that OL. Joe isn’t Hooker, but when he has a little more time he is plenty good enough. He was absolutely smothered in this game.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

So far Nico hasn’t gotten many reps at all just 1 game. To say that Nico would not be redshirting says a lot with freshman now able to play in 4 games and still redshirt. So if no redshirt was planned Nico definitely needs to see action in the second half against San Antonio. The only way I wouldn’t play him was if Joe did catch fire but we were having trouble keeping keeping them from scoring. But even if Joe looks real good and we’re are up big at half I play Nico in the second half at least some of the 3rd and all the 4th. If we are struggling on offense in the first half I go with Nico, at that point we need to shake things up and at least get him some live action. GBO

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

I don’t want Nico playing behind that OL. Joe isn’t Hooker, but when he has a little more time he is plenty good enough. He was absolutely smothered in this game.

We have a gifted quarterback that needs some experience, Heupel has already said Nico will play some this year. Our line is capable of better. If Mays can ever get 100 percent our line would be much better. You can’t kids glove players, Nico is very mobile, it makes a big difference. He is a 5 star so I am assuming he has great instincts and quick processing ability. Blitzing him could be tougher than blitzing Joe.

 

[C-south]

I don’t want Nico playing behind that OL. Joe isn’t Hooker, but when he has a little more time he is plenty good enough. He was absolutely smothered in this game.

Yea Nico should go ahead and hit the portal in case the O-line doesn’t improve.

 

[Fullfillmer]

I don't know how long Milton's leash is. Only someone very close to one or both of them would know. It is likely longer than what those calling for Nico want it to be. However, Heupel didn't like the flow of the game over the last two weeks and much of that rests with Milton.

Nico is the back up. The options were likely to play a walk on in that role or give Nico all the snaps possible when games get out of hand. It also gives him the back ups reps in practice which is important. He's not going to RS at UT because he likely won't be UT's starter for more than two years. Give him about 20 lbs and a couple of years... and he's a pro.

There are potential rewards to playing Nico sooner rather than later. But too many of you guys ignore the risks... and they are very significant. If he starts, Milton checks out. He may leave the team altogether. Then you spend the rest of the season trying to keep a twig from being broken by SEC defenses. Your back ups become walk ons and nothing else. Undoubtedly there are guys on the team who are tight with Milton and believe he should get time. If he's pulled... you could split your locker room. And truthfully... there is no guarantee that Nico will play better after you take the risks. If the problems are more weighted to something else then you have only made your problem worse.

There is also the fact that while the QB is most visible to fans... there were a TON of mistakes by other guys. So will changing the QB make those things go away? Not likely.

For now, it is probably the better decision to stick with Milton and try to build off some really good stretches vs UF. By quarter:

1st- 7/8, 89 yds, 1 TD
2nd- 1/4 3 yds, 1 INT
3rd- 8/12, 98 yds
4th- 4/10, 97 yds, 1 TD

The key was the 2nd quarter when the D absolutely couldn't get off the field and the O couldn't stay on it. UT only ran 11 plays in the 2nd qtr.

While all of what you say is true - Milton doesn't run the offense very well. He doesn't make good heady qb type decisions. He is out there, he is a good guy, he doesn't fumble, he can complete some passes - we will never score more than 20 something points with him at the helm. Not only does our offense have to change because of challenges with him running the offense, the defense also must change. We can't afford to play a bend but don't break style on defense, because we aren't going to score a lot of points.

There are huge risks by playing Nico early. But he probably has the talent to really help the team. I would play them both which isn't a perfect solution either. Rock meet hard place.

 

[Orange931]

Yea Nico should go ahead and hit the portal in case the O-line doesn’t improve.

It’s been the OL for the last decade. The OL caused Milton to throw it in the dirt on 4th down Saturday as well. I like Milton as a person, great guy, but he is what he is and that’s a backup at best.

 

[C-south]

It’s been the OL for the last decade. The OL caused Milton to throw it in the dirt on 4th down Saturday as well. I like Milton as a person, great guy, but he is what he is and that’s a backup at best.

I think he’s had more than enough opportunities to show what he’s capable of. I like him and think he’s a great guy and wish his talent matched his potential.

 

[Orange931]

I think he’s had more than enough opportunities to show what he’s capable. I like him and think he’s a great guy and wish his talent matched his potential.

He’s in Year 6 playing major CFB, he should “get it” by now. Frustrates the hell outta me why he isn’t taking off more often also. If the pocket starts to collapse at least attempt to run. You’ve got a huge frame, use it.

 

[Wrangler95]

Play Milton first two quarters to see how he does in UTSA game,if he sputters play Nico or Moore 2nd half.This is sure the game to try this experiment!

 

[C-south]

He’s in Year 6 playing major CFB, he should “get it” by now. Frustrates the hell outta me why he isn’t taking off more often also. If the pocket starts to collapse at least attempt to run. You’ve got a huge frame, use it.

Just watching him I don’t think he wants to run. Not sure if he’s scared of taking a big hit or what. Even on the rare occasion that he does run he is quick to slide.

 

[VolForLife83]

Nico would have gotten play time against peay but we stunk it up..

Virginia too. Both games should have been over in the 3rd and Nico getting plenty of time.

 

[vegasvolfan]

We have a gifted quarterback that needs some experience, Heupel has already said Nico will play some this year. Our line is capable of better. If Mays can ever get 100 percent our line would be much better. You can’t kids glove players, Nico is very mobile, it makes a big difference. He is a 5 star so I am assuming he has great instincts and quick processing ability. Blitzing him could be tougher than blitzing Joe.

I think our OL needs to get it together before making that decision. I do think you have a point when it comes to Nico’s mobility. I learned Milton has NEVER completed a pass on the run from one of the announcers. That is insane. I am not saying don’t give Nico snaps, but I think it’s a mistake to yank Milton if our OL can’t protect the QB. Regardless, I don’t see Heupel doing it.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Yea Nico should go ahead and hit the portal in case the O-line doesn’t improve.

Right. That’s exactly what I was implying.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Oh boy look it’s another bash Joe Milton thread. Haven’t seen one of those in awhile. Good grief.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I think our OL needs to get it together before making that decision. I do think you have a point when it comes to Nico’s mobility. I learned Milton has NEVER completed a pass on the run from one of the announcers. That is insane. I am not saying don’t give Nico snaps, but I think it’s a mistake to yank Milton if our OL can’t protect the QB. Regardless, I don’t see Heupel doing it.

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I agree. You know it’s funny. I have had people tell me that we don’t have talent in the secondary. That it’s not fair to judge Martinez because we don’t have SEC talent back there. Well why don’t those same people apply that logic to the OL? Other than Cooper and maybe Spraggs, we don’t have SEC quality OL. I don’t care how good a QB is. If his OL is bad he doesn’t stand a chance.

Take Tom Brady in the 2007 Super Bowl. The Giants DL ate him up. Guess what? He lost. I remember plenty of times when Peyton’s OL played horrible and he lost. Denver vs Seattle Super Bowl in 2013. OL played terrible and Peyton got crushed.

Go back to the Orange Bowl. Joe looked really good against a good defense that had multiple high draft picks. Why did he look good? The OL was good.

 

[VolsAgainstTheWorld15]

I think our OL needs to get it together before making that decision. I do think you have a point when it comes to Nico’s mobility. I learned Milton has NEVER completed a pass on the run from one of the announcers. That is insane. I am not saying don’t give Nico snaps, but I think it’s a mistake to yank Milton if our OL can’t protect the QB. Regardless, I don’t see Heupel doing it.

View attachment 580472

Couldn’t disagree more just for the unfortunate reality that the OL isn’t going to get it together. They’ll get a touch better when Coop gets back, but they’ll still be below average. That unit is what it is. Honestly, next season’s offensive line could very easily be worse that this one as we will be losing Cooper, Spraggins, and I believe Karic as well.

I say that just to make the point that the OL being bad isn’t an excuse not to make the change if Joe isn’t getting it done. Now, I don’t have a clue if Nico is better or not. We’ve not seen enough of him to know. What we do know is that Joe is pretty average. He makes a few nice plays here and there, but he has several limitations and usually doesn’t make the pieces around him better.

All of that to say, if the coaches think Joe is our best shot, then cool. Ride with the guy that gives you the best chance to win . But don’t sit Nico just because the OL isn’t any good. We’re probably two or three years away from having a good offensive line unless we make hay in the portal. Nico is going to have to either learn to play behind a mediocre OL or, Heaven forbid, leave and go elsewhere. No time like the present to learn imo.

 

[Boone&Crockett]

Nico would have gotten destroyed in that Florida game, I dont think Joe is ever gonna be a elite QB but he gives us the best chance to win at the moment, I know that's what they said about Guarantano too but it was true then as well, doesnt mean we will win with em but it means we have less shot of imploding with them out there than anyone else.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Couldn’t disagree more just for the unfortunate reality that the OL isn’t going to get it together. They’ll get a touch better when Coop gets back, but they’ll still be below average. That unit is what it is. Honestly, next season’s offensive line could very easily be worse that this one as we will be losing Cooper, Spraggins, and I believe Karic as well.

I say that just to make the point that the OL being bad isn’t an excuse not to make the change if Joe isn’t getting it done. Now, I don’t have a clue if Nico is better or not. We’ve not seen enough of him to know. What we do know is that Joe is pretty average. He makes a few nice plays here and there, but he has several limitations and usually doesn’t make the pieces around him better.

All of that to say, if the coaches think Joe is our best shot, then cool. Ride with the guy that gives you the best chance to win . But don’t sit Nico just because the OL isn’t any good. We’re probably two or three years away from having a good offensive line unless we make hay in the portal. Nico is going to have to either learn to play behind a mediocre OL or, Heaven forbid, leave and go elsewhere. No time like the present to learn imo.

You could be right. I just have to see more to know if I agree. Our Oline got a lot better under this staff including Wright. I will wait and see. I also think it makes sense to trust the coaches. They know more than most do on here. At least the receivers are catching the ball now. IF the OL does improve, then I think we see a different offense.

 

[Big Al Orange]

He’s in Year 6 playing major CFB, he should “get it” by now. Frustrates the hell outta me why he isn’t taking off more often also. If the pocket starts to collapse at least attempt to run. You’ve got a huge frame, use it.

Perhaps the Michigan coaches knew more than we gave them credit for. J S

 

[fossilfiction]

Leaving this out there, when the offense had to pass in the 4th, it was better.
If they don't trust him to run anything except

1st - Bubble screen
2nd - Run
3nd - PA bubble screen

All these, take what the defense gives you, yes, but make something out of it. The play calling cannot keep on removing the mid and deep pass for quarters at a time.

 

[Majors]

We all have seen the play of Joe Milton during the first 3 games. Some/most of us are ready to see Nico have more snaps during meaningful games. I think Heuple/Halzle agree with us and have since before the season. Here is where logic (or the lack thereof) comes in: On Sept 6th Heupel said that Nico was not redshirting this season and that the coaching staff would play him "when the opportunity arose"

Vols' freshman QB Nico Iamaleava will not redshirt, Josh Heupel says

The Vols' highly touted freshman QB is expected to see the field plenty this season.

tennessee.rivals.com

I think Heupel/Halzle already knew that Milton was not going to be a top tier QB in the SEC and knew they would wind up playing Nico sooner or later this season if Milton played like he has. Otherwise why would you not say we plan to play Nico in 4 games (unless there is an injury to Milton) and move on, Why waste a redshirt year if you do not plan to play him?

I am not saying bench Milton and play Nico starting with UTSA and ride him no matter what. I disagree with this and think we should see a few series for Nico over the next few games that are planned out and the plays are scripted to his strengths to "break" him in to college/SEC play.

Or they figured they would have a few blowouts where Nico would play over Gaston and Navy.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don’t want Nico playing behind that OL. Joe isn’t Hooker, but when he has a little more time he is plenty good enough. He was absolutely smothered in this game.

Joe did fine against Clemson using the "old" Heupel uptempo offense. This year, we've just not seen much of that offense and the immediate leap by VN was: he can't run the offense so they gelded it.

He ran the offense. Re-watch the Orange Bowl.

I thought Heupel would open up the "old" offense and he did on the first drive against FL and Joe had us in the end zone in short order.

Then, inexplicably, we went right back to the dull offense we saw in the first two games. It's hard to pin that on Joe. We all saw him against Clemson AND on the opening drive against FL.

I don't know what's going on but it's not Joe Milton because I've seen him run the "old" offense....... you have too if you watched the Clemson game and first FL drive.

Something is wrong but Joe Milton is not calling the offense I've watched him run successfully.

 

[C-south]

Nico would have gotten destroyed in that Florida game, I dont think Joe is ever gonna be a elite QB but he gives us the best chance to win at the moment, I know that's what they said about Guarantano too but it was true then as well, doesnt mean we will win with em but it means we have less shot of imploding with them out there than anyone else.

A qb that throws a ball in he dirt on 4th and 6 gives us the best chance to win?

 

[Adam Sandler]

We all have seen the play of Joe Milton during the first 3 games. Some/most of us are ready to see Nico have more snaps during meaningful games. I think Heuple/Halzle agree with us and have since before the season. Here is where logic (or the lack thereof) comes in: On Sept 6th Heupel said that Nico was not redshirting this season and that the coaching staff would play him "when the opportunity arose"

Vols' freshman QB Nico Iamaleava will not redshirt, Josh Heupel says

The Vols' highly touted freshman QB is expected to see the field plenty this season.

tennessee.rivals.com

I think Heupel/Halzle already knew that Milton was not going to be a top tier QB in the SEC and knew they would wind up playing Nico sooner or later this season if Milton played like he has. Otherwise why would you not say we plan to play Nico in 4 games (unless there is an injury to Milton) and move on, Why waste a redshirt year if you do not plan to play him?

I am not saying bench Milton and play Nico starting with UTSA and ride him no matter what. I disagree with this and think we should see a few series for Nico over the next few games that are planned out and the plays are scripted to his strengths to "break" him in to college/SEC play.

Flawed premise. Nico doesn’t need to be saved for a redshirt because he probably won’t be here even 4 years.

 

[LWSVOL]

We all have seen the play of Joe Milton during the first 3 games. Some/most of us are ready to see Nico have more snaps during meaningful games. I think Heuple/Halzle agree with us and have since before the season. Here is where logic (or the lack thereof) comes in: On Sept 6th Heupel said that Nico was not redshirting this season and that the coaching staff would play him "when the opportunity arose"

Vols' freshman QB Nico Iamaleava will not redshirt, Josh Heupel says

The Vols' highly touted freshman QB is expected to see the field plenty this season.

tennessee.rivals.com

I think Heupel/Halzle already knew that Milton was not going to be a top tier QB in the SEC and knew they would wind up playing Nico sooner or later this season if Milton played like he has. Otherwise why would you not say we plan to play Nico in 4 games (unless there is an injury to Milton) and move on, Why waste a redshirt year if you do not plan to play him?

I am not saying bench Milton and play Nico starting with UTSA and ride him no matter what. I disagree with this and think we should see a few series for Nico over the next few games that are planned out and the plays are scripted to his strengths to "break" him in to college/SEC play.

first of all, be very careful about buying public coach speak. Heupel has proven to not be forth coming with public comments. Says something and it doesn't turn out, like twice with Mays in the last month.

I keep saying, Nico will be getting meaningful reps when the staff feels he is ready and not based on how bad Joe plays. There are a ton of responsibilities besides just play execution, a QB has to handle to be successful. lot of pre snap decisions and then on execution, picking the right option on a play