For those saying Vanderbilt has comparable talent

#26
#26
I think the fact that we have walk-ons playing prominent roles lessens our overall talent avg.

Also, confidence plays a large role in "talent"

Vandy's talent vs. Vols talent - edge Vols

Vandy's talent playing with confidence and consistency in schemes/coaches
vs.
Vols talent playing with limited/shaky confidence due to obvious issues.

Edge - Even or slight Vandy lean
If we come prepared to play like we are capeable of playing, then we can win this game in the 10-14 point range.

Personnaly, I think this is going to be a sloppy game dictated by field position and our ability/success in keeping Matthews from having more than 1 big play. He'll get at least one against us.
 
#27
#27
zach0105 said:
Their average rivals recruiting ranking is 45 from 2010-2013. In that same span our average ranking is 15.

Even the last two recruiting classes that Franklin was in charge of their average ranking was 24 compared to our 19 with a lame duck Dooley and Jones trying to salvage 2013.

Vanderbt just looks good because they have taken advantage of teams with losing records and beat up teams (UF and UGA).

We have the talent advantage and the coaching advantage IMO and I expect a fired up senior class to make their mark by beating up on the little sister school.
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true,but it is more or less the same players as last year,think it will make a difference this year ?
 
#29
#29
zach0105 said:
Their average rivals recruiting ranking is 45 from 2010-2013. In that same span our average ranking is 15.
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The same could have been said of Mizzou.

If the coaching doesn't improve and especially on D... it just won't matter.
 
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#32
#32
zach0105 said:
Looking back at the classes, 2010 is the only one I noticed severe attrition. I looked through and felt like there were more than a normal amount that I didn't recognize their name or remembered them leaving. But that's without getting too in depth with the attrition numbers and talent of those that left.
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Think about 2011.
Just counting the 4 star talent:

12 players signed

5 are off the team

Maggitt has not played and I do not think Jackson has played this year.


Someone else can take the time to look at the rest of the players.
 
#33
#33
governmentmule said:
what do you think is going to happen ? take the gloves off and tell us
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I wish I knew. I will be sorely disappointed with two weeks to prepare if the O doesn't look MUCH better.

The thing that's unpredictable to me is the D. They've been horrible for 3 weeks straight. Regardless of what reason or excuse you give... they've still be bad and the coaching hasn't been good either. At this point, I just do not "assume" a good performance by this DC. I have to see it.

Vandy isn't a tremendously talented team but they have shown the ability to score some points.

The interesting thing is that UT is dead last in rushing D... while Vandy is dead last in rushing O. They obviously have not played the competition UT has either.

If you want to "feel" good about something then that's it. If you want to take the other tact, every other FBS school that tried to run the ball vs UT had more success than their season avg in rushing.
 
#34
#34
Fun stat. UT and Vandy are pretty similar statistically vs the SEC. Vandy played TAM but UT played Aub and Bama. Those three along with Mizzou make up the top 4 scoring O's in the SEC.
 
#35
#35
zach0105 said:
Their average rivals recruiting ranking is 45 from 2010-2013. In that same span our average ranking is 15.

Even the last two recruiting classes that Franklin was in charge of their average ranking was 24 compared to our 19 with a lame duck Dooley and Jones trying to salvage 2013.

Vanderbt just looks good because they have taken advantage of teams with losing records and beat up teams (UF and UGA).

We have the talent advantage and the coaching advantage IMO and I expect a fired up senior class to make their mark by beating up on the little sister school.
Click to expand...

Simply looking at the recruiting rankings only tell you a partial story of the quality of "talent" on a football team. It's like stating that one chef's food is certain to taste better because he was provided better raw ingredients.

Exactly what elements of a player are attributed to talent? Is it just size, speed, strength? Do you include football IQ, toughness, instincts? "Talent" is an elusive world. In the end, it is only relevant in how it contributes to the quality of the football player. Running VERY fast in the wrong direction doesn't add to winning.

So, whatever elements you want to include in "talent," it is certainly reasonable to expect them to change with physical, mental and emotional maturity. Further they change with training, coaching and simply experience.

Is it not reasonable to think that VU has the advantage in at least some of these things if for no other reason than they are in the third year of their current program?
 
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#36
#36
This is a toss up game simple if we don't turn the ball over we win if we lay the ball on the ground then I don't have to tell you.
 
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#37
#37
sjt18 said:
I wish I knew. I will be sorely disappointed with two weeks to prepare if the O doesn't look MUCH better.

The thing that's unpredictable to me is the D. They've been horrible for 3 weeks straight. Regardless of what reason or excuse you give... they've still be bad and the coaching hasn't been good either. At this point, I just do not "assume" a good performance by this DC. I have to see it.

Vandy isn't a tremendously talented team but they have shown the ability to score some points.

The interesting thing is that UT is dead last in rushing D... while Vandy is dead last in rushing O. They obviously have not played the competition UT has either.

If you want to "feel" good about something then that's it. If you want to take the other tact, every other FBS school that tried to run the ball vs UT had more success than their season avg in rushing.
Click to expand...

this is what i am afraid of when the Vols play Vandy,they can score and the Vols can't stop them,it might get ugly or it might not
 
#38
#38
zach0105 said:
Maybe I overestimated this sentiment on here.

What sparked me making this thread was a guy calling into the radio saying, very adamantly, that vandy had the talent advantage. And I know I've seen it said at least a few times on here.

Lastly I wasn't going into at all the development of talent. But development of talent wasn't the major issue of the last regime. It was focusing that talent into something positive or teaching that talent how to win.
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I actually think this is the biggest reason the gap has closed between the 2. Hopefully that is reversed in the future, but Franklin did a much better job of developing the players he recruited across the board than Dooley did. Rivals/247/ESPN/Scout is not gonna account for that so on paper it doesn't make sense.
 
#39
#39
sjt18 said:
Fun stat. UT and Vandy are pretty similar statistically vs the SEC. Vandy played TAM but UT played Aub and Bama. Those three along with Mizzou make up the top 4 scoring O's in the SEC.
Click to expand...

Vandy has been extremely opportunistic on turnovers. I believe this game hinges on whether the O can keep from turning the ball over and ST pinning them deep and forcing them to drive the length of the field.
 
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#40
#40
volfan411 said:
Vandy has been extremely opportunistic on turnovers. I believe this game hinges on whether the O can keep from turning the ball over and ST pinning them deep and forcing them to drive the length of the field.
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Pretty much. I think UT has an advantage at the LOS. If they play even to Vandy we lose.
 
#41
#41
UT_Tix79 said:
Vandy has the best player on the field, and I like their secondary. But, every other position, we out talent them at.

If we lose this game, we will have been out coached, not out talented
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Vandy is also better at the QB position. The DL and LB positions are about even on defense. On offense, the Vols are much better on the OL and may be slightly better at RB. Vandy is better at WR and QB (based on experience).

As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record says you are. Vols are 4-5, Vandy is 6-4.

That being said, the Vols should win but it won't be easy.
 
#42
#42
BeecherVol said:
Pretty much. I think UT has an advantage at the LOS. If they play even to Vandy we lose.
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I agree I do not think their O is good enough to drive the length of the field more than a couple of times. We just cannot afford to give them a short field if we do we will lose.
 
#43
#43
zach0105 said:
Looking back at the classes, 2010 is the only one I noticed severe attrition. I looked through and felt like there were more than a normal amount that I didn't recognize their name or remembered them leaving. But that's without getting too in depth with the attrition numbers and talent of those that left.
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Ok fair enough. All those players should be juniors. The 09 class was basically a complete wash and all of them should be seniors. Who does that leave? Freshmen and sophomores.
 
#44
#44
KBVol said:
Vandy's upperclassmen/leaders believe they're gonna win and the team us well coached... they make few mistakes and are opportunistic.

UTs seniors/team leaders are not tough minded and have shown a loser's mentality after an incredibly difficult 4-5 years in our program. They want to win but don't expect or know to win. Plus, we have not appeared to have been particularly well coached the last few weeks.

To me, these are the obstacles UT has to overcome if they're gonna beat Vandy tomorrow. Not a talent issue.
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I agree!!!
 
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#45
#45
TN needs to run like we did last week and no turnovers. That is enough to win the game. I expect Dobbs to improve a lot and there better be less pre-snap penalties. We should also be better on special teams as they were good to great for nine out of ten games this year. Vereen and Walls are hungry for sacks and they will feast on the beast! Jaques gets a senior day sack too! Matthews will get his yards but not many big plays.

Vols by 11, 27-16!
 
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#46
#46
zach0105 said:
Their average rivals recruiting ranking is 45 from 2010-2013. In that same span our average ranking is 15.

Even the last two recruiting classes that Franklin was in charge of their average ranking was 24 compared to our 19 with a lame duck Dooley and Jones trying to salvage 2013.

Vanderbt just looks good because they have taken advantage of teams with losing records and beat up teams (UF and UGA).

We have the talent advantage and the coaching advantage IMO and I expect a fired up senior class to make their mark by beating up on the little sister school.
Click to expand...

Talent alone does not ensure a W. Your analysis is correct, but effort by the player and coaching are necessary to realize the talent. Per CBJ, this VU team has invested in the system and coaching continuity is there. This will be a close hard fought game like GA. This time I hope we get the bounce in our favor! Otherwise it will be another off season of what ifs. Go Vols! Let's take one more step to re-emerging!!
 
#47
#47
zach0105 said:
Looking back at the classes, 2010 is the only one I noticed severe attrition. I looked through and felt like there were more than a normal amount that I didn't recognize their name or remembered them leaving. But that's without getting too in depth with the attrition numbers and talent of those that left.
Click to expand...

The senior class (2010) did have severe attrition, but do you not consider the junior class (2011) as having severe attrition?

The 2011 class had zero (0) five star recruits and twelve (12) four star recruits according to Rivals. Four aren't here anymore (Arnett, Clear, Lanier, and Martin). Curt Maggitt was unavailable all year due to injury, and Mo Couch was suspended/kicked off the team.

So essentially, we lost half of our four stars from the junior class. I'd call that severe.
 
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#48
#48
Rudy123 said:
I want a game like 2009, when Wes Brown intercepted the ball and rumbled and stumbled 20 yards for a t.d. The run took about 17 minutes for him to get to the endzone......
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I remember that play, he scored that TD dragging one of their defensive backs with him from about the 7-8 yard line
 
#49
#49
Recruit talent without continued development by good coaching at the next level means nothing. Case in point; Palardy. Look at the turn around since CBJ & Co have been here. Imagine Palardy with that level of coaching for the three previous years.
 
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