Foreclosures..

#26
#26
oh yeah, if they refuse to work and go on welfare off to prison with them, they can make like 70 cents an hour and pay off their debt!
 
#27
#27
MontereyVol said:
I do believe their should be punishment for those who lied about income on their applications. Since 1 in 10 adults are in prison maybe we should try something else? like taxing them 50%-70% of their income over a period of years.
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The easy fix for that is to release all prisoners who are in due to their connection with recreational drugs. I would much rather have people who simply want to live to get high on the streets than people who simply want to get one over on someone else.
 
#28
#28
Something else to keep in mind is that a lot of these forclosures are happening because the borrower is walking away from their mortgage. Many sub-prime borrows who had an ARM could easily continue to pay their mortgage even after their monthly payment went up, but the problem is that these folks have hardly paid any principal on thier note and the value of their home (this is market specific of course) may have gone down 25-30 percent. Therefore, it would take them 3-5 years of paying the higher monthly payment just to achieve parity on thier loan (make the loan balance equal to current market value of the house). Rather than throw money down a black hole, many of them just mail in their keys and walk away. Believe it or not, if they have a decent source of income they can get another loan and buy another house at current market value without nearly as much difficulty as you might think.
 
#29
#29
MontereyVol said:
Unless they somehow have it set up they are still responsible for the loan after, say an ARM adjusts, which the average is 5 years. then they wouldnt be responsible.

Most of the subprime lenders were being backed by money flowing from China. They sold the loans they bought from the banks to them and then when the original loanee's default on their loan the subprimes didn't have the money to back it up. The US government has to intervene at this point so we dont default on the money China gave to the subprime holders.
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why would we care if china losses their money? and china might have bought a lot of subprime loans but i don't remember them owning or "backing" any mortgage lenders.
 
#30
#30
therealUT said:
The easy fix for that is to release all prisoners who are in due to their connection with recreational drugs. I would much rather have people who simply want to live to get high on the streets than people who simply want to get one over on someone else.
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I agree, I dont know what the percentages are for the population of rec drugs is, but its probably high? (no pun intended).

Here in California we have something like 50%+ population of illegals taking up jail space so I think that might be throwing that figure out of whack too.
 
#31
#31
droski said:
why would we care if china losses their money? and china might have bought a lot of subprime loans but i don't remember them owning or "backing" any mortgage lenders.
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Its not so much that its China, but the US would damage its dollar credability world wide if we defaulted on them.

The dollar became the world currency by having our Government garuanting its currency. If we were to now not pay for the idiocy of our banks to a foreign investor how would you precieve a garuantee from us in the future? If you think the dollar is low now we will end up like Italy after that.
 
#32
#32
The value of the dollar is not tied to private investment. If the shell companies that the invesment firms put together to sell the banks' bad debt don't have the dollars to pay with, it is not the job of the government to make up for it.
 
#33
#33
The euro is the world currency now, thats one of the reasons for the falling dollar, along with the large deficit spending. One of things propping up the dollar, is the saudi's trading oil in dollars. When that stops, the dollar will really slide.
 
#34
#34
VolunteerHillbilly said:
The value of the dollar is not tied to private investment. If the shell companies that the invesment firms put together to sell the banks' bad debt don't have the dollars to pay with, it is not the job of the government to make up for it.
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No the value of the Dollar is tied to the Governments ability to guarantee it. Most loans bought by foreign entities are backed by a federal guarantee.
 
#35
#35
allvol123 said:
You are correct droski. If you bail people out because of stupid behavior, chances are they will not learn anything.
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Yep. I foreclose on houses because we represent homeowner associations and people don't pay their dues. Several people don't because some are investors call in saying they had no idea about the dues since they don't live at the property, so they shouldn't be charged late fees and attorney fees. riiiiiiiiight, let me take off my working fees for you.:eek:lol:
 
#36
#36
oklavol said:
The euro is the world currency now, thats one of the reasons for the falling dollar, along with the large deficit spending. One of things propping up the dollar, is the saudi's trading oil in dollars. When that stops, the dollar will really slide.
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70% of the world's central banks holdings are still in dollars. now if they start dumping those dollars because it continues to drop in price. . . :censored:
 
#37
#37
MontereyVol said:
Its not so much that its China, but the US would damage its dollar credability world wide if we defaulted on them.

The dollar became the world currency by having our Government garuanting its currency. If we were to now not pay for the idiocy of our banks to a foreign investor how would you precieve a garuantee from us in the future? If you think the dollar is low now we will end up like Italy after that.
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the US isn't defaulting on subprime debt, the individual people are. we have no guarentee on subprime debt. unless you are talking about conforming loans.
 
#38
#38
The importation of oil and natural gas is killing us killing us. I think we need to;

1) Revitalize the nuclear energy program (I've seen it said that the U.S. cannot build a nuclear reactor without importing certain parts)
2) Institute a crash program to find an economically viable way to extract oil from oil shale/tar sands
3) Take a long hard look at U.S. govt. spending abroad with an eye to reducing our military presence in NATO countries, Japan, and Korea.

Maybe if we could become a net exporter of energy and ceased to be the global policeman/santa claus/sucker we might strengthen the buck
 
#39
#39
MontereyVol said:
No the value of the Dollar is tied to the Governments ability to guarantee it. Most loans bought by foreign entities are backed by a federal guarantee.
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Not private loans. Those are backed by mortgage insurers, if they are backed by anything other than the word of the person who is selling them that repayment will come. That is why AIG had to write off about $11 billion last week. You can disagree with me if you like but you will be wrong.
 
#40
#40
It gets really technical, I'm not sure many people ever know how exactly it filters down but the subprimes were being propped up by the Chinese economy. The loans get bundled and sold that way. Eventually foreign governments invest in over seas markets so the US government does guarantee bundled loans sold as one giant piece. Thats why foreigners invest here.
 
#42
#42
Plano Vol said:
The importation of oil and natural gas is killing us killing us. I think we need to;

1) Revitalize the nuclear energy program (I've seen it said that the U.S. cannot build a nuclear reactor without importing certain parts)
2) Institute a crash program to find an economically viable way to extract oil from oil shale/tar sands
3) Take a long hard look at U.S. govt. spending abroad with an eye to reducing our military presence in NATO countries, Japan, and Korea.

Maybe if we could become a net exporter of energy and ceased to be the global policeman/santa claus/sucker we might strengthen the buck
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I agree with the nuclear option, but on average it takes us 20 years to build a new one. I dont know if it is making news out there or not but TVA is reactivating and bringing online deactivated nuclear plants.

And with the rise of China, no way we start bringing down our presence in that region.
 
#45
#45
The point is there was no money to begin with, only a promise of money. Unless these were government backed loans, the government is not obligated to pay them off. If that were the case, all of the foreclosures would be going to the government and not the note holders.
 
#46
#46
This has been a very bad, but very interesting economy discussion.

The idea that CMOs are being gov't insured for overseas investors is the most entertaining of the points here.
 
#47
#47
oklavol said:
sounds like a fun job :p

so you must be very busy these days.....
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Not really. :ermm: but it gets my foot in the "legal world" door, so it works for now.


And yes, we were just given the go ahead foreclose on 7 homes for one association. Have to work on filing 29 liens next week for another association, the first step in the process. The biggest frustration is that we put in all this work to go through all the steps to get to the foreclosure, and here comes the mortgage company with theirs, and they get first priority.
 
#48
#48
MontereyVol said:
It gets really technical, I'm not sure many people ever know how exactly it filters down but the subprimes were being propped up by the Chinese economy. The loans get bundled and sold that way. Eventually foreign governments invest in over seas markets so the US government does guarantee bundled loans sold as one giant piece. Thats why foreigners invest here.
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no they don't. unless you are talking about fannie loans which aren't subprime loans. and the fannie mae aren't the bonds getting written off. foreigners invest here because they have lots of dollars because we buy their goods.
 
#49
#49
BigPapaVol said:
This has been a very bad, but very interesting economy discussion.

The idea that CMOs are being gov't insured for overseas investors is the most entertaining of the points here.
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The problem is papa, that I am sure the poster and a lot of other people readily believe that to be the case and it may in some way influence their own decision making process, political or otherwise, even though it is pure poppycock!
 
#50
#50
Okay, we are all right in the fact we are arguing different sides of the same issue.

No, mortgages are not guarenteed per se by the government. However, by the time the money invested in the companies and the banks who give the loan and the house to a prospective buyer. Everyone has had their hands in it, and yes it ties back to the money that is being loaned to the US government by China. The same way the tax rebate you get this year is going to come from China.

China would not loan us that money (or anyone else for that matter) if there was no guarantee they wouldnt get their money back, even if it is at a loss. Japan did the same thing years ago and lost big, but now your talking about risk vs being guaranteed. They are still under the same rules you and I are when we invest. However, in this case China is loaning the US money and the US will have to pay that back or China is going to end up owning our banking and real estate industry. The rules of the game are simple, you cant pay your debt then they get your liquidity.

The subprimes recieved loans directly from banks in China, and since our banks are federally insured we are going to be stuck with that debt.
 
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