Foreclosures..

#51
#51
U.S banks did not hold the subprime notes. the notes are held by CDOs and CMOs, which are not backed in any way by the U.S. government no matter who the investor is.
 
#52
#52
I read an article yesterday about the demise of a down-payment as part of the mortgage issuing process. It made plenty good sense, the simple fact that if you put 20% or whatever down on a home, you're (A) Capable of dealing with money, and therefore keeping what budget you need to keep said home, and (B) Are going to do whatever you need to do in order to keep the home, seeing as the 20% you put down is floating down the river should you get foreclosed.

Some people have the attitude of "Fork it" as they have little other than their credit score to lose should they get foreclosed.

The wife and I got our home for 0 down, with a $30 monthly PMI, which will be gone after we get 15% of the principal paid off. However, i think lots of people overbought, underthought, or a combination of the two.
 
#53
#53
Plano Vol said:
As harsh as it sounds, I hope there is no bailout of lenders or borrowers. There has to be accountability for one's actions.

I'm very concerned that the U.S. consumer on average has overextended himself to the point that our economy can no longer sustain itself and the purging of all this debt is going to cause a very severe recession.
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Agreed.
 
#54
#54
Your right subprime loans are not federally garaunteed! As I said before.

But the money the Chinese loans to the US government is. That is the money being used to bail out the mortgage and subprime market.

So for the sake of arguement, I will say that what I am getting at is indirect but it does effect the overall picture.
 
#55
#55
MontereyVol said:
Your right subprime loans are not federally garaunteed! As I said before.

But the money the Chinese loans to the US government is. That is the money being used to bail out the mortgage and subprime market.

So for the sake of arguement, I will say that what I am getting at is indirect but it does effect the overall picture.
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No, the two are completely unrelated. If the Chinese are buying US gov't bonds ('loaning the gov't money in your parlance), then, yes they are investing in securities that have the US gov't as their guarantor. That has always been the case and has always been a funding source for the US Govt. Certainly our national creditworthiness impacts how we'll borrow money in the future.

However, if they are buying CMOs or CDOs of any type, those are sold on the open market and are pure speculation on the creditworthiness of the pile of debts that comprise the CDO and any insurance that might have been bought to augment the credit (MBIA / AMBAC / ACA). Tranches are sold to the public. To the extent that pieces of the CDO default, the Chinese buyer has typical lien rights. They can surely foreclose on the defaulted property. The US national borrowing capacity has nothing at all to do with that market. If they want to foreclose on the US, good luck. That's the inherent political risk of buying paper from another nation. The day we decide to stop paying is the day they lose their money.
 
#56
#56
volwindy said:
Not really. :ermm: but it gets my foot in the "legal world" door, so it works for now.


And yes, we were just given the go ahead foreclose on 7 homes for one association. Have to work on filing 29 liens next week for another association, the first step in the process. The biggest frustration is that we put in all this work to go through all the steps to get to the foreclosure, and here comes the mortgage company with theirs, and they get first priority.
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how much can someone owe in dues before you can foreclose?
 
#57
#57
Does anyone else notice the Lenox Financial radio ads with John Shibely, "It's the biggest no brainer in the history of earth"? I can't help but think about those ads when I hear about mortgages and foreclosures now. That guy is running the most deceptive ads on the radio.
 
#58
#58
BigPapaVol said:
No, the two are completely unrelated. If the Chinese are buying US gov't bonds ('loaning the gov't money in your parlance), then, yes they are investing in securities that have the US gov't as their guarantor. That has always been the case and has always been a funding source for the US Govt. Certainly our national creditworthiness impacts how we'll borrow money in the future.

However, if they are buying CMOs or CDOs of any type, those are sold on the open market and are pure speculation on the creditworthiness of the pile of debts that comprise the CDO and any insurance that might have been bought to augment the credit (MBIA / AMBAC / ACA). Tranches are sold to the public. To the extent that pieces of the CDO default, the Chinese buyer has typical lien rights. They can surely foreclose on the defaulted property. The US national borrowing capacity has nothing at all to do with that market. If they want to foreclose on the US, good luck. That's the inherent political risk of buying paper from another nation. The day we decide to stop paying is the day they lose their money.
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Okay last time, My point is that being that they are unrelated they will still impact each other. China buys securities from the US government which are guaranteed, subprime loans are sold on the open market, not guaranteed. A lot of Subprimes go into default, the US government moves in to stave off the damage with the money we just received in securities from China. Somebody has to come up with the money to eventually pay back the Chinese for the money they used to buy our securities.

If we default on our securities bought by China you can kiss our global economic dominance goodbye.

your right, in some areas, that China has invested both in the subprime directly and also in securities so I will admit that I was wrong in thinking that it came back door trough the FHA, which are guaranteed. That money they lose and if they wanted could probably end up with a lot of defaulted property in the US just like Japan in the 80's.
 
#59
#59
MontereyVol said:
Okay last time, My point is that being that they are unrelated they will still impact each other. China buys securities from the US government which are guaranteed, subprime loans are sold on the open market, not guaranteed. A lot of Subprimes go into default, the US government moves in to stave off the damage with the money we just received in securities from China. Somebody has to come up with the money to eventually pay back the Chinese for the money they used to buy our securities.

If we default on our securities bought by China you can kiss our global economic dominance goodbye.

your right, in some areas, that China has invested both in the subprime directly and also in securities so I will admit that I was wrong in thinking that it came back door trough the FHA, which are guaranteed. That money they lose and if they wanted could probably end up with a lot of defaulted property in the US just like Japan in the 80's.
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by this argument, every dollar of gov't waste imperils our financial dominance in the world and puts us one step closer to Chinese rule of the known universe. even further, us govt bond defaults would be a problem.
 
#61
#61
MontereyVol said:
Are you a conspiracy theorist? or are you trying to be sarcastic?
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i summarized your comments. you basically said deficit spending will be our doom and tried to tie it to the subprime market.

then you pointed out that a us govt default would pose a problem.

#1 was Chicken Little and #2 was correct.
 
#65
#65
MontereyVol said:
Well the insults are there I am just waiting for you to play the victim card.
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seriously, is there some point in the future of this where you're going to say something I can understand.

When do I play the victim card? that confuses me.

Beyond that, are you going to continue to try and connect the dots from US backed debentures and structured capital markets products?
 
#66
#66
I jumped into the discussion with what I believe to be a valid point. I am not an MBA nor do I work specifically in the American banking system. So far, I do not believe you have proved your case. I know I haven't proved mine to you. Even though I still think we are arguing over something we both agree on but talking about each others flip side.

Since you believe I am chicken little, all I can say to that is thanks for the argument and it is noted.
 
#67
#67
MontereyVol said:
I jumped into the discussion with what I believe to be a valid point. I am not an MBA nor do I work specifically in the American banking system. So far, I do not believe you have proved your case. I know I haven't proved mine to you. Even though I still think we are arguing over something we both agree on but talking about each others flip side.
Since you believe I am chicken little, all I can say to that is thanks for the argument and it is noted.
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called me a clinton and asked if I'm a conspiracy theorist, both of which confused me.

IF we're on the same page, I'm totally confused. I have no case to prove except that muni style or us gov't bonds have nothing to do with the us capital markets and the us does not guarantee CMOs, regardless of buyer.
 
#68
#68
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Someone emailed me this powerpoint presentation on the subprime mess a while back. I couldn't upload it but I think this link will work for most of you. This is funny and succinct and actually explains how this happened.

subprime works - Google Docs

edit: should've mentioned R-rated language
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All of these emoticons apply to that PP presentation...
:blink: :ermm: :unsure: :lolabove: :crazy: :good!: :eek:lol::eek:hmy: :huh: :no: :realmad: :shakehead:
 
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