Former Vol LB Daniel Brooks is in my BCT Company

#76
#76
PrattvilleVol said:
Ignorance is ignoring the fact that the average male much less the average female cannot put their full body weight, less 20 lbs. on their back and hump 20 miles. That includes you genius.
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ok ill discuss this with you since its clear you are operating with bad information.

first I would like to know where you are getting your figures from ? this 120 lbs of gear and the 20 mile hump ?

I believe your talking about a forced march with a full combat kit. Now when I was in the 82nd we never once did a 20 mile forced march with 100+ pounds of gear, in fact the combat kit at that time weighed about 60 LB's and 60 lb's of equipment is a lot of gear. I would have to think that today with all the new tech gear it doesn't weigh much more than that. ( its possible that full body armor could add a significant amount of weight)

Now being in the Airborne when you jump into combat you carry one of the heaviest combat loads in the military which includes food and ammo for extended periods of time usually around 3 days worth and this load only totaled a little over 100 LB's when i did it and that's because of the main and emergency chutes. But once you hit mother earth you get rid of a lot of that excess weight. The average Leg unit does not need to carry this amount of gear because they have a supply train which airborne units do not.

The only leg unit that might do this would be a specialized unit like the 10th Mountain Division which is an elite unit for fighting in Mountains and in Arctic conditions and it's subordinate to the XVIII Airborne Corps so its S.O.P. will be very similar to the Airborne.

Other than Airborne units and the 10th there are no regular leg units that would train regularly with 20 mile forced marches and most certainly not FM's with 100+ lb's of gear. Even if they did anybody male or female that trained for it could do it.

secondly.
You do realize that women are already in combat zones with our military and to get there they have had to pass the same training as anyone else. So allowing them to actually fight wouldn't really change much.

When I was in the 82nd 20 years ago we had a few women in the division and if your in the 82nd you have to be ready to jump and fight, that includes every single trooper in the unit from the CG down to the newest recruit.
When your job is to jump behind enemy lines,be outnumbered and surrounded then everybody jumps and everybody fights including the cooks, medics, chaplains, office clerks,CID,Generals and Staff officers, "Everybody" male or female.

So to sum it up, women are already serving in combat units and in combat zones and if they want the chance to fight along side their bothers in arms they deserve the chance to do so.

(sorry for the long post on the football forums)
 
#77
#77
We get it. They've been fighting and serving alongside combat units for a long time. Good job, but why change up an entire unit for the small amount of females that would actually be able to make it?

When they let women in the infantry (we got a couple of supply NCOs, personnel, and a medic platoon sergeant) we already had to change all of our facilities to accommodate just a hand full of females.


It's not that they CAN'T do it.. it's that we've done it for so long without them, and we don't NEED them actually integrated in the units. If you think there wouldn't be a barrier there.. you have no idea what it's like in the military as an infantryman.
 
#81
#81
I assume he has his degree. He'll make a good Artillery officer. Better get that Ranger tab.......Hooah!
 
#82
#82
volbrawler said:
We get it. They've been fighting and serving alongside combat units for a long time. Good job, but why change up an entire unit for the small amount of females that would actually be able to make it?

When they let women in the infantry (we got a couple of supply NCOs, personnel, and a medic platoon sergeant) we already had to change all of our facilities to accommodate just a hand full of females.


It's not that they CAN'T do it.. it's that we've done it for so long without them, and we don't NEED them actually integrated in the units. If you think there wouldn't be a barrier there.. you have no idea what it's like in the military as an infantryman.
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aye you have a good point, and i see no need to take up anymore of this thread talking about this in the football forum.

/cheers
 
#83
#83
vols4evah said:
ok ill discuss this with you since its clear you are operating with bad information.

first I would like to know where you are getting your figures from ? this 120 lbs of gear and the 20 mile hump ?

I believe your talking about a forced march with a full combat kit. Now when I was in the 82nd we never once did a 20 mile forced march with 100+ pounds of gear, in fact the combat kit at that time weighed about 60 LB's and 60 lb's of equipment is a lot of gear. I would have to think that today with all the new tech gear it doesn't weigh much more than that. ( its possible that full body armor could add a significant amount of weight)

Now being in the Airborne when you jump into combat you carry one of the heaviest combat loads in the military which includes food and ammo for extended periods of time usually around 3 days worth and this load only totaled a little over 100 LB's when i did it and that's because of the main and emergency chutes. But once you hit mother earth you get rid of a lot of that excess weight. The average Leg unit does not need to carry this amount of gear because they have a supply train which airborne units do not.

The only leg unit that might do this would be a specialized unit like the 10th Mountain Division which is an elite unit for fighting in Mountains and in Arctic conditions and it's subordinate to the XVIII Airborne Corps so its S.O.P. will be very similar to the Airborne.

Other than Airborne units and the 10th there are no regular leg units that would train regularly with 20 mile forced marches and most certainly not FM's with 100+ lb's of gear. Even if they did anybody male or female that trained for it could do it.

secondly.
You do realize that women are already in combat zones with our military and to get there they have had to pass the same training as anyone else. So allowing them to actually fight wouldn't really change much.

When I was in the 82nd 20 years ago we had a few women in the division and if your in the 82nd you have to be ready to jump and fight, that includes every single trooper in the unit from the CG down to the newest recruit.
When your job is to jump behind enemy lines,be outnumbered and surrounded then everybody jumps and everybody fights including the cooks, medics, chaplains, office clerks,CID,Generals and Staff officers, "Everybody" male or female.

So to sum it up, women are already serving in combat units and in combat zones and if they want the chance to fight along side their bothers in arms they deserve the chance to do so.

(sorry for the long post on the football forums)
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This article pretty much sums up the toll on Men humping with heavy gear. I'm sure if women we're carrying the same loads their toll would be much worse.

Report: Combat soldiers carry too much weight - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

An Army Science Board study in 2001 recommended that no soldiers carry more than 50 pounds. Yet the Times said a 2003 Army study found that soldiers on extended foot patrols carry an average load ranging from 87 to 127 pounds.
 
#84
#84
PrattvilleVol said:
This article pretty much sums up the toll on Men humping with heavy gear. I'm sure if women we're carrying the same loads their toll would be much worse.

Report: Combat soldiers carry too much weight - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

An Army Science Board study in 2001 recommended that no soldiers carry more than 50 pounds. Yet the Times said a 2003 Army study found that soldiers on extended foot patrols carry an average load ranging from 87 to 127 pounds.
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Were you Army Pratt?
 
#86
#86
PrattvilleVol said:
This article pretty much sums up the toll on Men humping with heavy gear. I'm sure if women we're carrying the same loads their toll would be much worse.

Report: Combat soldiers carry too much weight - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

An Army Science Board study in 2001 recommended that no soldiers carry more than 50 pounds. Yet the Times said a 2003 Army study found that soldiers on extended foot patrols carry an average load ranging from 87 to 127 pounds.
Click to expand...

very interesting article and it seems that the body armor does increase the weight by quite a bit and it does say that the army recommends no more than 50 lbs which is very close to the 60 we carried.

Operating in extremely rugged terrain like Afghanistan while carrying that amount of weight would be hard on anyone male or female, but an extended patrol is very different from a forced march training exercise. I wonder if this weight is part of the TOE or something that the individual solders have come up with themselves after being in a combat zone for such extended periods. My experiences where brief in comparison. Ill try and remember to ask my nephew who is a master sgt. in the marines with 6 tours over there. ( he keeps volunteering to go back because he wants to take care of his troops, much to the dismay of his wife and daughter)

cheers
 
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#87
#87
vols4evah said:
very interesting article and it seems that the body armor does increase the weight by quite a bit and it does say that the army recommends no more than 50 lbs which is very close to the 60 we carried.

Operating in extremely rugged terrain like Afghanistan while carrying that amount of weight would be hard on anyone male or female, but an extended patrol is very different from a forced march training exercise. I wonder if this weight is part of the TOE or something that the individual solders have come up with themselves after being in a combat zone for such extended periods. My experiences where brief in comparison. Ill try and remember to ask my nephew who is a master sgt. in the marines with 6 tours over there. ( he keeps volunteering to go back because he wants to take care of his troops, much to the dismay of his wife and daughter)

cheers
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I'm not saying women don't have the heart or skill to pull 11 bush at all. Women in general are just not physically designed by nature to carry 120lbs on their back especially across rough terrain with steep inclines. That slows the unit down as a whole by having to carry their gear. I remember the women in supply that couldn't throw their duffle in the back of an A2.5. Obviously when you're under fire you need to move quickly with your gear without carrying somebody else's.

Airborne Infantry and a dedicated, ground pounding, 11B unit carry two completely different loads for obvious reasons.
 
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#88
#88
Yankee_Vol said:
I'm the Drill Sergeant (instructor) and they have these devices called "cell phones." They even have Internet!
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Wow, times have changed. We were allowed one 3 minute call home and that was it. All of our personal belongings were taken away until after we graduated. And I had the so called easy route in the AF.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#89
#89
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Wow, times have changed. We were allowed one 3 minute call home and that was it. All of our personal belongings were taken away until after we graduated. And I had the so called easy route in the AF.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Yankee is the instructor. I've never been through it but I would bet he doesn't operate under the same restrictions as a new recruit
 
#91
#91
Yankee_Vol said:
It's been called WLC for at least 6-7 years now. And I haven't heard the took land nav out
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Yeah they took Land Nav out, but there are some serious changes to WLC going through right now. Bringing back the pt test and making the course longer.
 
#92
#92
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Wow, times have changed. We were allowed one 3 minute call home and that was it. All of our personal belongings were taken away until after we graduated. And I had the so called easy route in the AF.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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They don't get cell phones, I was talking about mine
 
#93
#93
SuperVol said:
Yeah they took Land Nav out, but there are some serious changes to WLC going through right now. Bringing back the pt test and making the course longer.
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When did they take away the PT test? That's retarded
 
#94
#94
Yankee_Vol said:
Found out today I have a former Vol player going thru Basic Combat Training here at Ft. Jackson in my Company.

Former LB Daniel Brooks.
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(Posted with his permission)
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DBro? Dude, slap him on the butt and tell him "Chunky said wassup." He'll know what it means.
 
#98
#98
Yankee_Vol said:
It is pretty soft. I'm actually quite disappointed with where the Army is headed
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BCT was pretty easy when i went through 6 years ago and it seems to be even easier now. and TRADOC is putting alot of restrictions on drill sergeants. kudos to you for the work you do.
 
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