Franklin got out just in time...

#26
#26
Franklin will never get the credit he deserves.

Vandy just completed its most successful run in school history, but the coach was "lucky" because UF, UT and UGA were "down".

It's gotdamned Vanderbilt.
 
#27
#27
99gator said:
Vandy beat Florida, Georgia and Tennessee in the same season.

First game without him, they get skull drug by Temple.

Sustained success at Vandy is impossible. However, down or not, Vandy won games they had no business winning.

IMO, the "we were down" stuff is a bunch of garbage. Never, at any point in time, would I want to trade rosters with Vandy.

All teams that "were down" had better talent than Vandy and were out coached.

Period. End of story. Next case.
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I agree with you:eek:hmy:. I think he is a great coach. If he were Tennessee's coach right now I would be okay with it.
 
#28
#28
No matter how "down" the East may have been, Franklin's run at Vany was miraculous. There has never been a moment in the last 80 or so years where UGA, UF, and UT were so "down" that Vandy had better talent, or even remotely comparable talent. Yet Franklin won 9 games two years in a row. That's just fantastic coaching.
 
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#29
#29
Franklin is a good coach who benefited from an easier than normal SEC schedule. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

In 2012, he beat:

-A rebuilding Ole Miss
-A bad Missouri team
-A historically awful Auburn team
-A Tennessee team that had given up after the Missouri game (which is no excuse--he had his players ready to go)
-A 5-7 Wake Forest team
-A 2-10 Kentucky team
-And two cupcakes

In 2013, he beat:

-4 cupcakes (including a 4-8 WF team)
-A bad Florida team devastated by injuries
-A Tennessee team with its 4th string QB and no Marquez North
-A depleted UGA team (although this is still his most impressive win considering UGA's play against Auburn later in the season)
-And another 2-10 UK team

Meanwhile, he got smacked by South Carolina, Missouri, and Texas A&M.

I think Franklin is an SEC-caliber coach, and probably the best Vandy coach has ever had. I don't think he's a miracle worker or particularly better than any current head coach in the conference aside from his replacement and maybe Stoops.

One thing I liked about his coaching is that he seemed to call great plays at the right time. He called some headscratchers, sure, but he had a knack for changing the momentum of the game really fast. The fake FG against UGA, the fake jump pass against UT, ALL the prayers to Jordan Matthews...he knew what worked and he used it to great effect.

For some reason, it seems college coaches sometimes try to get cute or shy away from using their best playmakers, but he knew Matthews was a stud and simply let him do his thing to win games.
 
#30
#30
Lawrence Wright said:
Franklin will never get the credit he deserves.

Vandy just completed its most successful run in school history, but the coach was "lucky" because UF, UT and UGA were "down".

It's gotdamned Vanderbilt.
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Guy knows football and he made them better than anyone else has and maybe ever will. I also think it helped that he caught UT in the Dooley years and got UF and UGA when he did. So I think its a bit of both.
 
#31
#31
Aesius said:
Franklin is a good coach who benefited from an easier than normal SEC schedule. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

In 2012, he beat:

-A rebuilding Ole Miss
-A bad Missouri team
-A historically awful Auburn team
-A Tennessee team that had given up after the Missouri game (which is no excuse--he had his players ready to go)
-A 5-7 Wake Forest team
-A 2-10 Kentucky team
-And two cupcakes

In 2013, he beat:

-4 cupcakes (including a 4-8 WF team)
-A bad Florida team devastated by injuries
-A Tennessee team with its 4th string QB and no Marquez North
-A depleted UGA team (although this is still his most impressive win considering UGA's play against Auburn later in the season)
-And another 2-10 UK team

Meanwhile, he got smacked by South Carolina, Missouri, and Texas A&M.

I think Franklin is an SEC-caliber coach, and probably the best Vandy coach has ever had. I don't think he's a miracle worker or particularly better than any current head coach in the conference aside from his replacement and maybe Stoops.

One thing I liked about his coaching is that he seemed to call great plays at the right time. He called some headscratchers, sure, but he had a knack for changing the momentum of the game really fast. The fake FG against UGA, the fake jump pass against UT, ALL the prayers to Jordan Matthews...he knew what worked and he used it to great effect.

For some reason, it seems college coaches sometimes try to get cute or shy away from using their best playmakers, but he knew Matthews was a stud and simply let him do his thing to win games.
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During Franklin's time at Vandy, Vandy had more wins than Auburn, Florida, or Tennessee. They went bowling every season and those three didn't.

Vanderbilt ended the season ranked in the top 25 in 2013.

Some of you can dismiss it all you want, he got it done.
 
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#32
#32
Aesius said:
Franklin is a good coach who benefited from an easier than normal SEC schedule. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

In 2012, he beat:

-A rebuilding Ole Miss
-A bad Missouri team
-A historically awful Auburn team
-A Tennessee team that had given up after the Missouri game (which is no excuse--he had his players ready to go)
-A 5-7 Wake Forest team
-A 2-10 Kentucky team
-And two cupcakes

In 2013, he beat:

-4 cupcakes (including a 4-8 WF team)
-A bad Florida team devastated by injuries
-A Tennessee team with its 4th string QB and no Marquez North
-A depleted UGA team (although this is still his most impressive win considering UGA's play against Auburn later in the season)
-And another 2-10 UK team

Meanwhile, he got smacked by South Carolina, Missouri, and Texas A&M.

I think Franklin is an SEC-caliber coach, and probably the best Vandy coach has ever had. I don't think he's a miracle worker or particularly better than any current head coach in the conference aside from his replacement and maybe Stoops.
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Exhibit A right there.

If Butch Jones went on a similar run as Franklin did the last two years...with Vandy-esque talent...he'd be hailed as the SEC's next up and coming coaching star around these parts.
 
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#33
#33
Lawrence Wright said:
Exhibit A right there.

If Butch Jones went on a similar run as Franklin did he last two years...with Vandy-esque talent...he'd be hailed as the SEC's next up and coming coaching star around these parts.
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Don't spout facts on VN LW, that stuff will get you black balled
 
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#34
#34
Sin City Vol said:
Don't spout facts on VN LW, that stuff will get you black balled
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Silly man...don't you know Vandy has to run a gauntlet of 2008 UF, 2003 LSU, 1998 UT, 2009 Bama, 2010 AU and 1980 UGA for Franklin to be considered an above average coaching talent?
 
#35
#35
ALLVOL24/7/365 said:
He is a heck of a lot better coach than Mason. I have no doubt about that in my mind. He is a master motivator, that is why he is such a good recruiter. Look at State Penn' s class this year with just a few weeks of talking to kids. Give him a couple of years and no sanctions and Urbz has his hands full. Franklin would have won the game against Temple. Much as I hated the guy and still do, give credit where credit is due, he is a heck of a coach.
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This. Everyone says we were down, UF was down etc. Yes that's true, we're not the power we used to be and UF and UGA have seen better days. But despite being down, all 3 programs had better rosters across the board than Vandy did, yet all were humiliated at one point or another by CJF. He took a lot of 2*-3* guys and beat other's 4*-5*. I don't think it's X's and O's so much but his ability to motivate and get kids to believe, as you alluded to. They play hard for him and don't give up even when things are getting rough.

They were down 28/35 - 0 to Carolina last year and came back to lose 35-28 with a chance at the end. Very few coaches have the ability to keep a team motivated throughout a game like that when they're getting their ass beat.
 
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#36
#36
99gator said:
Vandy beat Florida, Georgia and Tennessee in the same season.

First game without him, they get skull drug by Temple.

Sustained success at Vandy is impossible. However, down or not, Vandy won games they had no business winning.

IMO, the "we were down" stuff is a bunch of garbage. Never, at any point in time, would I want to trade rosters with Vandy.

All teams that "were down" had better talent than Vandy and were out coached.

Period. End of story. Next case.
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I love the outside perspectives. The incestuous logic that permeates our fanbase makes us look mentally challenged and ignorant. Dooley recruited more 4-5* in his worst class than CJF did in three classes yet that gets lost. So many fail to see the player development and motivation aspects of what he did. Matthews had zero D-1 offers outside of Vandy yet everyone points to Matthews as evidence that Vandy was "stocked" with "talent". Nevermind he played and developed under CJF and staff for 3 yrs.
 
#37
#37
Aesius said:
Franklin is a good coach who benefited from an easier than normal SEC schedule. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

In 2012, he beat:

-A rebuilding Ole Miss
-A bad Missouri team
-A historically awful Auburn team
-A Tennessee team that had given up after the Missouri game (which is no excuse--he had his players ready to go)
-A 5-7 Wake Forest team
-A 2-10 Kentucky team
-And two cupcakes

In 2013, he beat:

-4 cupcakes (including a 4-8 WF team)
-A bad Florida team devastated by injuries
-A Tennessee team with its 4th string QB and no Marquez North
-A depleted UGA team (although this is still his most impressive win considering UGA's play against Auburn later in the season)
-And another 2-10 UK team

Meanwhile, he got smacked by South Carolina, Missouri, and Texas A&M.

I think Franklin is an SEC-caliber coach, and probably the best Vandy coach has ever had. I don't think he's a miracle worker or particularly better than any current head coach in the conference aside from his replacement and maybe Stoops.

One thing I liked about his coaching is that he seemed to call great plays at the right time. He called some headscratchers, sure, but he had a knack for changing the momentum of the game really fast. The fake FG against UGA, the fake jump pass against UT, ALL the prayers to Jordan Matthews...he knew what worked and he used it to great effect.

For some reason, it seems college coaches sometimes try to get cute or shy away from using their best playmakers, but he knew Matthews was a stud and simply let him do his thing to win games.
Click to expand...

+1

I was going to mention most of these things, but you did all of the work for me. It seems like the crowd is either on one side or the other, and I think it is somewhere in between. I don't like him, but I think Franklin is a very good coach. Yes, Vandy is not an easy job.

However, I don't think anyone can deny that he was the beneficiary of a cupcake OOC schedule and from some injuries last year to the East teams. You have to look behind the records to see why teams were good or bad. Not all records are created equal. Florida without their starting QB and other injuries; UGA without Gurley, Marshall, and a WR; and UT without their top two QB's and top WR. Were those the factors that helped them win? No. But they were certainly factors. JMO.
 
#38
#38
VolGee4 said:
+1

I was going to mention most of these things, but you did all of the work for me. It seems like the crowd is either on one side or the other, and I think it is somewhere in between. I don't like him, but I think Franklin is a very good coach. Yes, Vandy is not an easy job.

However, I don't think anyone can deny that he was the beneficiary of a cupcake OOC schedule and from some injuries last year to the East teams. You have to look behind the records to see why teams were good or bad. Not all records are created equal. Florida without their starting QB and other injuries; UGA without Gurley, Marshall, and a WR; and UT without their top two QB's and top WR. Were those the factors that helped them win? No. But they were certainly factors. JMO.
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Why didn't we beat UF? We're the ones who knocked Driskel out. Why didn't we beat UGA with injuries? We caused the injuries. And don't say we were inches away with Pig's fumble, UGA would've gotten their chance on offense as well.
 
#39
#39
bowlinggreenvol said:
I love the outside perspectives. The incestuous logic that permeates our fanbase makes us look mentally challenged and ignorant. Dooley recruited more 4-5* in his worst class than CJF did in three classes yet that gets lost. So many fail to see the player development and motivation aspects of what he did. Matthews had zero D-1 offers outside of Vandy yet everyone points to Matthews as evidence that Vandy was "stocked" with "talent". Nevermind he played and developed under CJF and staff for 3 yrs.
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I understand, but my question would be what would Vandy's record have been if they played our schedule last year?

I have no problem saying he is a great coach, but everyone wants throw the number "9" out like it's magic. Two straight 9 win seasons? Who did they play? Yes, beating UF, UGA, and UT in one year is impressive.

But, do they beat Bama? Auburn? Oregon?

Edit: They still lost to A&M and OM, their two West opponents. So, they lose one more game to finish regular season at 7-5.
 
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#40
#40
bowlinggreenvol said:
Why didn't we beat UF? We're the ones who knocked Driskel out. Why didn't we beat UGA with injuries? We caused the injuries. And don't say we were inches away with Pig's fumble, UGA would've gotten their chance on offense as well.
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Not sure how that is relevant at all to a Franklin discussion. We were not a good team for most of last year. I didn't say Franklin and Vandy were worse then us. Heck, we had a great chance to beat them. He is a good coach. But, people want to use his number of wins at Vandy to put him in the stratosphere. You can't just look at numbers.
 
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#42
#42
We'll find out just how good Franklin is. If he can't succeed at Penn State, then he's not too good.
 
#43
#43
Lawrence Wright said:
This may be the only point in Vandy's football history where their strength of schedule is called into question.
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Exactly.

People are talking about Franklin and his accomplishments as if he was coaching at Alabama.

Vandy is supposed to lose. They are supposed to lose to good teams, bad teams, "down" teams, etc.

You don't grade Vanderbilt with the same scale you do A major program. You grade them on a curve.
 
#44
#44
VolGee4 said:
Not sure how that is relevant at all to a Franklin discussion. We were not a good team for most of last year. I didn't say Franklin and Vandy were worse then us. Heck, we had a great chance to beat them. He is a good coach. But, people want to use his number of wins at Vandy to put him in the stratosphere. You can't just look at numbers.
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It's relevant to Franklin because you're the one who said he and Vandy benefited from injury plagued UF and UGA teams. We played those same injury plagued teams and didn't win.

I've not once said anything about the number of wins. With that said, the cupcakes on their schedule weren't the deciding factor in wins between the two programs. Over the last 2 years Vandy went 9-7 in the SEC, we went 3-13. Give them Bama twice they're 7-9 and give us Ark and we're 5-11. It's about the head to head and common opponents aspect of his record for me. He beat teams we didn't and beat us 2-3 all with less talent on paper.

There's very little to nothing that can be said to discount what he did.
 
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#48
#48
I read that the opponents that Vandy beat had a winning % of something like 31%. That's horrid. Yes, they beat UT twice, Fla and UGA, but look at the numbers. Duke isn't supposed to win, but they won 10. Sometimes the stars align for downtrodden programs. Franklin is a good coach, but he definitely had a lot of things go in his favor like a tremendous cupcake out-of-conference schedule that would make most fans embarrassed and the power teams in the East being down.
 
#49
#49
It's pure speculation, but I wonder what Bobby Johnson's record would have been if her been coaching during the Franklin Vandy years. My gut tells me not much different.

Basically all of Franklin's impact players were recruited by Johnson.
 
#50
#50
jjay2518 said:
It's pure speculation, but I wonder what Bobby Johnson's record would have been if her been coaching during the Franklin Vandy years. My gut tells me not much different.

Basically all of Franklin's impact players were recruited by Johnson.
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This is true although it doesn't fit the narrative of the dynamic AA coach whose masterful recruiting turned the tide. If you live in Nashville and we're able to see who VU was marketing tickets to then you understand why they cannot credit Johnson.
 
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