Franklin got out just in time...

#51
#51
If you do a quick glance of Vandys past recruiting classes a good number of those solid recruits he got are gone. In fact a good number of them left while he was here, and his
crown jewel Kimbrow, has been quite unimpressive.

He also fell into a good situation at PSU, inheriting Hackenburg is a nice gift. O'Brien also did a decent job of recruiting considering the Big Ten isnt top heavy shouldnt take him long to stock up.
 
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#53
#53
jjay2518 said:
It's pure speculation, but I wonder what Bobby Johnson's record would have been if her been coaching during the Franklin Vandy years. My gut tells me not much different.

Basically all of Franklin's impact players were recruited by Johnson.
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Y'all act like our poor record, along with UF's and UGA's is mutually exclusive from Vandy's success. Are our records not poor because we all lost a game that we don't normally lose and Vandy's record better because they beat 3 teams they don't normally win?
 
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#54
#54
Franklin did get out at the right time.

On the other note, Franklin can motivate and coach a team up as well some of the very best. He's a good coach, period.
 
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#55
#55
99gator said:
During Franklin's time at Vandy, Vandy had more wins than Auburn, Florida, or Tennessee. They went bowling every season and those three didn't.

Vanderbilt ended the season ranked in the top 25 in 2013.

Some of you can dismiss it all you want, he got it done.
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To me coaching is like poker. You can win with some bad hands with skill but it takes some of both to achieve what Franklin did.
 
#56
#56
CroKev said:
Everyone thinks Franklin was a genius while coaching Vandy. Granted he did a great job there but you have to admit, he was very fortunate in his timing. He will always be remembered in the future for the brief run that Vandy had but, fortunately for him, that happened when the SEC East was down. UT was at its worst in history, UF and UGA were beaten up with injuries (can you say, "Georgia Southern"?) and Vandy had the easiest schedule (esp. when home games are factored in) in the conference.

Franklin told everyone he was staying, but after UT hired CBJ and all the in-state recruits were going to the "state school," the writing was on the wall. Franklin got hired by PSU but I think he would have gone anywhere due to what was ahead.

Is he a better coach than Mason? I don't know. But I don't know if he would have done any better this year than Mason with what he had to work with, and that's with Vandy still having the easiest schedule in the SEC.
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Mason sucks...Period...End of story...He looked completely lost on that sideline.
 
#57
#57
bowlinggreenvol said:
It's relevant to Franklin because you're the one who said he and Vandy benefited from injury plagued UF and UGA teams. We played those same injury plagued teams and didn't win.

I've not once said anything about the number of wins. With that said, the cupcakes on their schedule weren't the deciding factor in wins between the two programs. Over the last 2 years Vandy went 9-7 in the SEC, we went 3-13. Give them Bama twice they're 7-9 and give us Ark and we're 5-11. It's about the head to head and common opponents aspect of his record for me. He beat teams we didn't and beat us 2-3 all with less talent on paper.

There's very little to nothing that can be said to discount what he did.
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Again, I don't see how our record is any relevant to a Franklin discussion other than that he beat us twice. But, whether or not we were a better team is not the point. We were bad.

All I said was that people seem to be on one side or the other: he was great or he got lucky. I think it's somewhere in between...he is a very good coach but he was also the beneficiary of some fortunate scheduling and injuries. That's all. You may not have thrown out the "9," but that's what others were saying. Until 2016, you can easily schedule 4 wins out of conference, and I expect Vandy (yes, lowly Vandy) to beat Elon, UConn, Army, Presbyterian, UMass (2), Austin Peay, and UAB. Franklin played them all. I didn't count Northwestern and Wake Forest (but still lower tier teams in their conference). During Bobby Johnson's tenure, Vandy played Ga. Tech and Wake Forest several times, Duke, UConn, at a ranked TCU, Rutgers, and at a ranked Michigan. He also lost some bad games, but the scheduling was quite different. I will say again that the numbers don't always tell the story.
 
#58
#58
VolGee4 said:
+1

I was going to mention most of these things, but you did all of the work for me. It seems like the crowd is either on one side or the other, and I think it is somewhere in between. I don't like him, but I think Franklin is a very good coach. Yes, Vandy is not an easy job.

However, I don't think anyone can deny that he was the beneficiary of a cupcake OOC schedule and from some injuries last year to the East teams. You have to look behind the records to see why teams were good or bad. Not all records are created equal. Florida without their starting QB and other injuries; UGA without Gurley, Marshall, and a WR; and UT without their top two QB's and top WR. Were those the factors that helped them win? No. But they were certainly factors. JMO.
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1. Vandy has always played a cupcake OOC schedule. It wasn't until JF came along that they were able to take advantage of it.

2. Regardless of the injuries, UGA, UT, and UF still had way more talent than Vandy, as did Auburn in 2012.

No matter how anybody tries to spin it, Vandy's success over the past couple of seasons is the result of Franklin getting those players to play way above their talent level.
 
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#60
#60
I think mason is in over his head. I'm sure he envisioned a Stanford type success in the sec. I don't think vandy can get the recruits to fill all those pieces he needs to do that. I retired from coaching at the high school and jr high level recently, so I can relate to that feeling. We were competitive but always needed about 4 more good players to do any damage on both sides of the ball. We would put our best players in each game, and each time we would need to replace someone, I'd look around and think oh crap. There is no one that is better on the side line to put in. I think he will experience that feeling for a few more years until he gets fired.

I also found it strange that on the sec preview show, when each team had a segment of their practices, his clip was of him conducting a hastily thrown together tackling drill on a one man sled. It appeared to look very jr highish to me. Compare that to Butch when he was on top of every segment of an organized practice. Butch ended it with a spreadsheet breakdown of how the defense had won 116 plays to 112 plays versus the offense. He said that the defense had won three days in a row, so that tells me they are meticulously graded during each play in practice. That Might not mean anything, but I told my wife that mason might be a train wreck. This was all before the temple game. Oh well, we shall see what the future holds.
 
#61
#61
roddo518 said:
I think mason is in over his head. I'm sure he envisioned a Stanford type success in the sec. I don't think vandy can get the recruits to fill all those pieces he needs to do that. I retired from coaching at the high school and jr high level recently, so I can relate to that feeling. We were competitive but always needed about 4 more good players to do any damage on both sides of the ball. We would put our best players in each game, and each time we would need to replace someone, I'd look around and think oh crap. There is no one that is better on the side line to put in. I think he will experience that feeling for a few more years until he gets fired.

I also found it strange that on the sec preview show, when each team had a segment of their practices, his clip was of him conducting a hastily thrown together tackling drill on a one man sled. It appeared to look very jr highish to me. Compare that to Butch when he was on top of every segment of an organized practice. Butch ended it with a spreadsheet breakdown of how the defense had won 116 plays to 112 plays versus the offense. He said that the defense had won three days in a row, so that tells me they are meticulously graded during each play in practice. That Might not mean anything, but I told my wife that mason might be a train wreck. This was all before the temple game. Oh well, we shall see what the future holds.
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I tried really hard to read this, but my eyes kept drifting over to your avatar.
 
#63
#63
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
1. Vandy has always played a cupcake OOC schedule. It wasn't until JF came along that they were able to take advantage of it.

2. Regardless of the injuries, UGA, UT, and UF still had way more talent than Vandy, as did Auburn in 2012.

No matter how anybody tries to spin it, Vandy's success over the past couple of seasons is the result of Franklin getting those players to play way above their talent level.
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Not as much as you think about the schedule. You can see my previous post. Under Johnson, they did play some lower tier teams, but I think Richmond was contending for the FCS title. However, Johnson played ranked teams against Georgia Tech, TCU, and Michigan in addition to Rutgers. Just FYI. So, Vandy doesn't always play a complete cupcake schedule.
 
#64
#64
It's going to be fun seeing Kentucky kick Vandy's arse in a few weeks. I think they finish last in the SEC East.
 
#65
#65
VolGee4 said:
Not as much as you think about the schedule. You can see my previous post. Under Johnson, they did play some lower tier teams, but I think Richmond was contending for the FCS title. However, Johnson played ranked teams against Georgia Tech, TCU, and Michigan in addition to Rutgers. Just FYI. So, Vandy doesn't always play a complete cupcake schedule.
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Borderline praising Vandy. Reported.:)
 
#67
#67
Dave1967 said:
It's going to be fun seeing Kentucky kick Vandy's arse in a few weeks. I think they finish last in the SEC East.
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This may be the only time Vols cheer wholeheartedly for the Cats, but I would love to see Stoops get his first SEC win against the Dores.
 
#68
#68
Lawrence Wright said:
This may be the only point in Vandy's football history where their strength of schedule is called into question.
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Yes to the point that you're trying to make, and yes to the point that you're unintentionally making...Franklin is a good coach and he had good timing. It's both.
 
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