Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

[Titans4Vols]

Oh I see no way of going back to him either. That is not what I'm saying. As you say, I think Fulmer gets way too much criticism and as fans we need to recognize success rationally. Moreover, Fulmer did have Taj Boyd committed too and he did know how to recruit. Of course, I didn't like his Clawson hire and if he was to come back (I have no hope for that), I would be worried about his coordinator hires unless they were Chavis and Cut.

So where does that leave me? I worried that UT is not going to get Gruden, and a hire that would be less than what Fulmer did even his last ten years is very possible. To me that hire would be a fail. I want someone with excitement and wins.

I hear ya, my friend.

I'm worried even if we do get Gruden, lol. I think he could recruit as well as anybody, but from watching him as the Bucs HC, I'm highly concerned with his ability to coach.

But of the candidates avalible, he's 1a alongside Charlie Strong. To me, this is a very weak head coaches available pool, and I'm not even sure if Strong wants to leave Louisville, lol.

 

[smokey90]

I hear ya, my friend.

I'm worried even if we do get Gruden, lol. I think he could recruit as well as anybody, but from watching him as the Bucs HC, I'm highly concerned with his ability to coach.

But of the candidates avalible, he's 1a alongside Charlie Strong. To me, this is a very weak head coaches available pool, and I'm not even sure if Strong wants to leave Louisville, lol.

I think Gruden is the best chance we have of beating Saban regularly, but there is no guarantees.

I like Strong better than Golden, but the last two losses worry me. I may be a little short sighted. However, I have wondered if Strong may have been concentrating on job offers that past two weeks instead of coaching. And that may be a good thing for UT or probably Ark.

I hate to say it. I don't even like to think it, but Franklin may be the real deal. I think his doing a good job recruiting. However, the UT/Vandy game was seemed evenly matched talent wise, but he took Dooley to school as to coaching.

Patterson would be a good choice. I just don't know.

 

[sjrobert]

5 SECCG appearances in the last ten years is not like Dooley or Kiffin. Fulmer did well. Hopefully, the next coach will do well too.

Five appearances and how many titles? Moral victories, what ifs, Fulmer got close, and if onlies don't count. The record shows "two," count them, "two" SEC titles for Fulmer in 16 years.

 

[volfanecs]

1 year from playing for the SECG. Oh that's right, he backed into it. Without Cutcliffe, he could not win. Maybe the players he recruited helped some. Can we water down 152-52 and the NC while we are at it?

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

Ok, most feel Fulmer and his winning ways were tied to Cutcliffe. What if Fulmer were hired back for say 2.3 million a year. Chavis returned for say 1.2 per year and Hart allowed Fulmer 1.2 million dollars to hire an OC. NOT a budget hire like a Clawson. Go get one of the best in college football. I have a feeling Fulmer would pick a great OC and we would be set up to win sooner than later. JMO

 

[vol_in_ar]

Five appearances and how many titles? Moral victories, what ifs, Fulmer got close, and if onlies don't count. The record shows "two," count them, "two" SEC titles for Fulmer in 16 years.

it all so shows all HOF career with 152 wins and a NC
what's the bet on when or better if Kiffin, or Dooley get one

 

[sjrobert]

it all so shows all HOF career with 152 wins and a NC
what's the bet on when or better if Kiffin, or Dooley get one

Kiffin would come closest of course, he brashly thought this would be his year, but he is on a short leash at USC. Dooley will be lucky if he ever gets another HCJ, but comparing those two to even the "couch potato" HOFer just reveals the ineptitude of Mike Hamilton in selecting the two coaching midgets.

 

[fearlesspeerless]

Look as a collective fan base we need to point the finger at the right person...Mike Hamilton F***ed up, period. Firing Fulmer was F*** up 1, hiring a guy based on his dads work as an NFL DC was F*** up 2 and hiring another dude based on the fact that his dad used to coach a rival school and won a NC with Herschel Walker is F*** up 3. Mike Hamilton is an idiot, lets all agree and move forward, Fulmer was F***ed over big time.

 

[TheDeeble]

Fulmer was a huge proponent of Tennessee hiring Hamilton for AD iirc.

 

[fearlesspeerless]

Indeed he was

 

[knoxvols1]

1 year from playing for the SECG. Oh that's right, he backed into it. Without Cutcliffe, he could not win. Maybe the players he recruited helped some. Can we water down 152-52 and the NC while we are at it?

I can. With buckets, gallons or water troughs! It's simple to me and others-hense he ran the program into the ground! He took over a well established program that was one year removed from back to back SEC Championships, rode its coat tails and milked the NC for 10 years! It's not like he "built" the program it was already well established! In fact, it was on its way up. And, he did back door his last two SECCG by matter of default. Sorta like LSU in the BCSCG except LSU WON IT! Recruiting basically tanked-Riggs, Houston, Tinsley, Davis and all those kicked off the team. He did bring in Berry, Hardesty and a few other good players but not like in early to mid 90's. Clausen was a good to little better college QB and so was Ainge but look at the other QB's in the SEC.
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[volfanecs]

So we cut and paste the low points of his career. We do not forgive any mistakes he made along the way. We downgrade 152-52, NC, SECG etc. I have to hand it to you, you have taken a HOF coach and made it appear as though he did not dominate the SEC and bring success to Tennessee.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

You can't cut and paste coaching records. It is a body of work that you are judging. In Fulmer's case, we see how it turned out. The teams with the best talent in the country right in their own back yard make a run for a four year period and all of a sudden Fulmer can't coach. Not the case at all imo. Now we are "praying" that Jon Gruden comes to save us from our self.
I will say it again. If we had a definite plan then make the move. If not, bad move. Bad move.

 

[whobethis16]

1 year from playing for the SECG. Oh that's right, he backed into it. Without Cutcliffe, he could not win. Maybe the players he recruited helped some. Can we water down 152-52 and the NC while we are at it?

I can. With buckets, gallons or water troughs! It's simple to me and others-hense he ran the program into the ground! He took over a well established program that was one year removed from back to back SEC Championships, rode its coat tails and milked the NC for 10 years! It's not like he "built" the program it was already well established! In fact, it was on its way up. And, he did back door his last two SECCG by matter of default. Sorta like LSU in the BCSCG except LSU WON IT! Recruiting basically tanked-Riggs, Houston, Tinsley, Davis and all those kicked off the team. He did bring in Berry, Hardesty and a few other good players but not like in early to mid 90's. Clausen was a good to little better college QB and so was Ainge but look at the other QB's in the SEC.
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Built up? Not taking anything away from it, but Majors didn't have to coach in an SECCG. Also, 7-8 wins throughout the history of the program was the norm, not the exception. So, to say Fulmer ran it into the ground is completely ignorant.

Backed into the last 2? Last time I checked, he went 6-2 in the conference in 07, beat the Hell outta the other 6-2 team, so therefore deserved to go. And also, in 04, he went 7-1 in the conference. Downplay it all you want, but his teams took care of business when they had to, and earned their way to Atlanta. I'd love for you to go up to any of the players and say that they didn't deserve it. Do you think FSU fans whine about "backing into" the 98 championship game? No, because they took care of business when others didn't. End of discussion on that part.

 

[whobethis16]

1 year from playing for the SECG. Oh that's right, he backed into it. Without Cutcliffe, he could not win. Maybe the players he recruited helped some. Can we water down 152-52 and the NC while we are at it?

I can. With buckets, gallons or water troughs! It's simple to me and others-hense he ran the program into the ground! He took over a well established program that was one year removed from back to back SEC Championships, rode its coat tails and milked the NC for 10 years! It's not like he "built" the program it was already well established! In fact, it was on its way up. And, he did back door his last two SECCG by matter of default. Sorta like LSU in the BCSCG except LSU WON IT! Recruiting basically tanked-Riggs, Houston, Tinsley, Davis and all those kicked off the team. He did bring in Berry, Hardesty and a few other good players but not like in early to mid 90's. Clausen was a good to little better college QB and so was Ainge but look at the other QB's in the SEC.
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Clausen and Ainge were great (2nd and 3rd best QBs in UT history) college quarterbacks. Clausen beat Bama 3 times (twice on the road) and Florida twice on the road.

 

[smokey90]

When Majors coached there was no SECCG. there was only a title which Majors backed into occasionally. One title was a three way tie with Bama and Auburn; one was because Florida was on probation; one was the worst down year I've seen in the SEC.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Look as a collective fan base we need to point the finger at the right person...Mike Hamilton F***ed up, period. Firing Fulmer was F*** up 1, hiring a guy based on his dads work as an NFL DC was F*** up 2 and hiring another dude based on the fact that his dad used to coach a rival school and won a NC with Herschel Walker is F*** up 3. Mike Hamilton is an idiot, lets all agree and move forward, Fulmer was F***ed over big time.

Cannot be Liked enough.

If Dooley was #9 --- let's repeat that --- #9 then we should have fired Hamilton for the lunacy of hiring Kiffin (a given), swallowed pride, and rehired Fulmer.

If Hart screws up Gruden then I'll take Fulmer over Al Golden all week long.

 

[Slydell]

And, we're still doing so much better since we kicked Phillip to the curb. Stability is great. We used to have some.

 

[volfanecs]

And, we're still doing so much better since we kicked Phillip to the curb. Stability is great. We used to have some.

Agreed. We used to have a great coach. No one wants us after 50. Let's bring in young, brash....oh wait.

 

[knoxvols1]

Backed in as with Georgia this year. Georgia didn't have to play the top three dominant teams in the SEC this year. Not to take away from them but they're not Alabama or LSU. Yes, Majors had the program already established. He came into a situation much like Dooley's replacement will and it took a while to do but he laid the inroads. Fulmer's record is not indicative of his work. (Period) It is not like he came into what the program is now or like Ole' Miss' program or Arkansas or many many others. Fulmer is much like Larry Coker was at Miami-only it took much longer to show how it wasn't really the coach-just the program. Now, I've got to grant Fulmer that he kept the program up and viable for a long time and is deserving of the HOF but he is not a legendary coach. No more than his bud and former AD Dickey!

 

[TNGrad2012]

Fulmer is, too, a legendary coach, at least in Tennessee lore. He's the second winningest coach in school history and I think it was a mistake firing him since his two losing seasons, 2005 and 2006, were the results of poor quarterback play. No one could have predicted in 2005 that neither Erik Ainge nor Rick Clausen were going to fail miserably at their job, nor did anyone think that Jonathan Crompton was going to suck major balls in '08. Was Fulmer getting complacent in 2008 in his recruiting? That's definitely possible, since his recruiting class only finished 40th nationally. But I think he would have had the team back in stride by now if we only knew what we know now about where the hirings of Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley would lead us.

 

[Big_Orange_Fan]

Was Fulmer getting complacent in 2008 in his recruiting? That's definitely possible, since his recruiting class only finished 40th nationally. But I think he would have had the team back in stride by now if we only knew what we know now about where the hirings of Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley would lead us.

I would disagree on he recruiting part. His 2007 class was ranked 5th in the nation and signed 33 if I'm correct. That was the largest recruiting class or one of his largest classes in all the years Fulmer coached here. In 2008 we did not have many graduating. I'm not sure the exact #'s but very few left. So that might explain why 2008 was bad.

 

[TNGrad2012]

I would disagree on he recruiting part. His 2007 class was ranked 5th in the nation and signed 33 if I'm correct. That was the largest recruiting class or one of his largest classes in all the years Fulmer coached here. In 2008 we did not have many graduating. I'm not sure the exact #'s but very few left. So that might explain why 2008 was bad.

That could be. I guess the thing is, BOF, most fans were used to top 5 recruiting classes every year, and we didn't get that in 2008. There were plenty of players who graduated at the end of the 2007-08 academic year, or in the case of Robert Meachem, left school early for the NFL. I just looked up an old article from the Bleacher Report (yeah, I know, I usually roll my eyes at them too) and saw a list of players who departed from the team due to graduation or leaving early for the NFL. I still can't help but not to think that Fulmer rested upon his laurels simply because he had accomplished so much in his time at Tennessee and therefore got lax in his recruiting. When I read that article, I was more convinced of this fact than ever before.

 

[volfanecs]

Backed in as with Georgia this year. Georgia didn't have to play the top three dominant teams in the SEC this year. Not to take away from them but they're not Alabama or LSU. Yes, Majors had the program already established. He came into a situation much like Dooley's replacement will and it took a while to do but he laid the inroads. Fulmer's record is not indicative of his work. (Period) It is not like he came into what the program is now or like Ole' Miss' program or Arkansas or many many others. Fulmer is much like Larry Coker was at Miami-only it took much longer to show how it wasn't really the coach-just the program. Now, I've got to grant Fulmer that he kept the program up and viable for a long time and is deserving of the HOF but he is not a legendary coach. No more than his bud and former AD Dickey!

Now look here Johnny.

 

[Big_Orange_Fan]

That could be. I guess the thing is, BOF, most fans were used to top 5 recruiting classes every year, and we didn't get that in 2008. There were plenty of players who graduated at the end of the 2007-08 academic year, or in the case of Robert Meachem, left school early for the NFL. I just looked up an old article from the Bleacher Report (yeah, I know, I usually roll my eyes at them too) and saw a list of players who departed from the team due to graduation or leaving early for the NFL. I still can't help but not to think that Fulmer rested upon his laurels simply because he had accomplished so much in his time at Tennessee and therefore got lax in his recruiting. When I read that article, I was more convinced of this fact than ever before.

Don't forget Hamilton and everything against Fulmer then.

Don't know if you realize this, but it is easier to get into Vandy than it is to get into UT.

UT set there standards above the NCAA minimums. So where a recruit with a C average will get into any other school he will not be allowed at UT. That hurts when most of the student athletes shot for C's. To play HS sports all need to do is pass with a C.