Fulmer's last recruiting class...

[trbonevol]

Fulmer did find Montori Hughes. CLK said how the "previous staff did a good job of finding him." A little off topic, but statements like this give me much confidence in Kiffin to find the best players (and coaches). It showed that nothing bothers him, especially other coaches. I guess we can't say the same for other coaches in Gainesville.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

Bohannon will be a backup his entire career (unless injuries happen).

We will be too stacked at DE for him to do anything besides that.

We stole him from Kentucky, remember?

He's decent though, not saying he's terrible. So is Poole, Waggner, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I don't want decent. I want domination. I think Bohannon will be a solid contributor for sure, but look at what we have coming in this year at DE especially if we pull Lemonier as expected.

Guys I don't claim to be right about everything. I'm just stating my opinion. USC and Florida are great because they recruit great. If you look at what Fulmer left Kiffin, it's just not great. That's my only point. Sorry if I p'd you off.

 

[VolsDeep]

Bryce Brown is a bracketed starter.

David Oku started on KO returns all season.

Nuke started PR until he robbed someone at gunpoint.

Greg King has started at LB.

Montori Hughes started in place of Dan Williams (made him mad and turned him into a possible first day draft pick after that) Fulmer recruited him but Kiffin signed him

I want to say Teague started in the opener at WR. If he didn't, Nuke did.


In all seriousness the Cambridge thing was uncalled for and immature of me... and pointless. So I apologize.

But for every freshmen I just listed that "started" I could make another list of freshmen that played serious roles (especially on special teams and defense). Fulmer never played that many freshmen because he didn't have to. He always had depth until the tail-end of his career, which by the way, is my entire point for this thread. It wasn't to bash Fulmer. It was to point out what Lane Kiffin is working with. You can find that in the opening post of my thread.

Coleman wouldn't have provided depth, just as Nick Stephens and Lamaison didn't. We didn't use a backup except in mop up duty (like Tauren Poole). I consider "depth" something I would feel confident in using. Depth doesn't mean 2nd and 3rd stringers. Everyone has that. Depth means those 2nd and 3rd strings can step in without much dropoff. I wouldn't feel confident in B.J. Coleman against Alabama (please see his stats in the UTC vs Bama game). I wouldn't have wanted Poole to have had 200 carries this year.

As for the "domination" thing. No, I do not expect Fulmer's players (2008 class) to dominate. I expect Kiffin's players to dominate.

Sorry to have offended you, but unfortunately I am correct. :hi:

It is not uncommon for freshman to start on Special Teams kick-offs, so yes, I will give you that. Rogan started his freshman year and so did Lucas Taylor (will never forget his fumble against UGA). And by the way, Nuke had lost his punting duties to Rogan before the robbery.

Teague started b/c both Jones and Moore were injured.

As for depth, like I said before, I don't disagree with you that there wasn't any depth. But to say it was entirely Fulmer's fault is a bit asinine when you look and see how many players left the team after Kiffin got hired, and then take into consideration McNeil's injuries. Some of Kiffin's players will dominate, others will get arrested, others will get kicked off, and others will be busts. To expect anything differently is absurd, in my opinion.

BTW, no worries and thanks for the apologies. I "worked like heck" to get up here...

 

[ajvol01]

well keep in mind that about a dozen players left during the shift of power, so the depth is both Fulmer's fault and also just a natural occurence during coaching changes... You can say all you want that it was b/c Kiffin was "so much more harder" etc etc but it happens everywhere.... And last I checked we won 19 games in 2006 and 2007. Yes, the program went down from the 1990's, but don't be so blinded by your love for Kiffin that you overlook these parts. You can talk all you want about how bad the 2008 class was, but the 2007 class panned out alright.

If you want to see some really telling facts, take a look at all of UT's recruiting classes on VolQuest since 2002. It is absolutely ridiculous the number of players that either never panned out, quit or got kicked off the team for off the field issues.

The 2006 and 2008 recruiting classes were totally inexcuseable.

 

[sjt18]

You want contributors, I want domination. That's just the difference between you and I, friend.

No it isn't. Stop parsing words and acting like an idiot.

As far as Poole "not being Kiffin's guy", don't give me that. Kiffin plays the best players, period. Poole goes out and busts long plays at washup time. He got beat out by two freshmen and it will be three when Toney Williams is back at 100%.

He was a 3* coming out of HS and is a 3* in college. He's a decent back but gimme the 3 freshmen all day, everyday, 7 days a week.

You would probably be well served to do a little more research into his recruitment. He was highly thought of as a Jr but got injured. In spite of a leg injury, he attended camps and still posted decent 40's.

I like Kiffin and respect what he's doing. He has his own reasons for who he plays and we have very limited info. That said, in the only comparisons we have of the two guys... Poole outperformed Oku.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

Fulmer did find Montori Hughes. CLK said how the "previous staff did a good job of finding him." A little off topic, but statements like this give me much confidence in Kiffin to find the best players (and coaches). It showed that nothing bothers him, especially other coaches. I guess we can't say the same for other coaches in Gainesville.

Right, I give Fulmer full credit for finding Hughes.

I'd rather take my chances with 5* players though, honestly. For every bust like Chris Donald, there are 1,000 players like Hawkins or Todd Campbell who we have that will never do anything at UT or other D-I schools.

As much as people bash on * ratings.... USC, Florida, and Texas sure do okay with the * rating system.

I just don't know why people are arguing with me about wanting to get dominant players.

I love players like Reveiz and the Sullins kids as much as the next guy, but unfortunately we were 7-5 this year and 5-7 last year. I'd rather have Jeff Luc's and Seantrel Henderson's guys. That's just my philosophy.

 

[VolsDeep]

Bohannon will be a backup his entire career (unless injuries happen).

We will be too stacked at DE for him to do anything besides that.

We stole him from Kentucky, remember?

He's decent though, not saying he's terrible. So is Poole, Waggner, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I don't want decent. I want domination. I think Bohannon will be a solid contributor for sure, but look at what we have coming in this year at DE especially if we pull Lemonier as expected.

Guys I don't claim to be right about everything. I'm just stating my opinion. USC and Florida are great because they recruit great. If you look at what Fulmer left Kiffin, it's just not great. That's my only point. Sorry if I p'd you off.

You are talking about two different things. You are talking about depth and then talking about domination. You will be hard pressed to find a 3rd string or even 2nd string player that is going to "dominate" in the SEC, that is why he is a back-up. So yes, Bohannon may not dominate, but he will add VERY SOLID depth....

 

[VolsDeep]

If you want to see some really telling facts, take a look at all of UT's recruiting classes on VolQuest since 2002. It is absolutely ridiculous the number of players that either never panned out, quit or got kicked off the team for off the field issues.

The 2006 and 2008 recruiting classes were totally inexcuseable.

Agreed. what is even more interesting to think about is that if Ainge doesn't throw an interception in the final minutes of the SECC in 2007, or if Ainge doesn't get injured in 2006 then Fulmer is not only still our HC but sitting on a fat raise and greater extension. It is what it is and none of us are blessed with foresight. Fulmer gave it a good run and lasted longer than many folks. However, Fulmer is quickly turning into El Nino around here, there reaches a point where we can't keep blaming him for things.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

When did Poole outperform him???? In mop up duty??? You can't even count that. If that were the case Corey Larkins was a monster back in his day!! He'd come in and bust a long TD late in the 4th quarter of games.

Yeah, he was moved to CB.

Trust me I've done plenty of research. Poole was a 3* period end of story. It wasn't a leg injury it was an ankle. He played all year on it and was only "hindered" by it.

His bio on scout said "deserves a look".

I don't think that sounds like he was "highly thought of". I don't think Ga Tech or UGA offered him (not sure about that though so don't go google'ing it haha).

Done arguing with ya buddy. Poole will transfer or sit, that's just the way it is. I guess you can blame that on a bum leg too.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

You are talking about two different things. You are talking about depth and then talking about domination. You will be hard pressed to find a 3rd string or even 2nd string player that is going to "dominate" in the SEC, that is why he is a back-up. So yes, Bohannon may not dominate, but he will add VERY SOLID depth....

Agree 100% about Bohannon.

I'm not saying our 5th string kicker should dominate.

This entire thread is about RECRUITING thus the location of it. I want to recruit players who are "expected" to be a high-level player. I guess you can base that on * ratings if you want, but when I see a guy like Corey Miller or Kenbrell Thompkins... I know he will be a great DE or WR at UT. Is there a possibility they won't? Yes, but all that can be judged in hindsight which is what I'm doing with this thread. I just don't get that warm fuzzy with many of the guys in the '08 class, man sorry. I guess you're just not getting me...

This was all about the 2008 class and how useless it will end up being overall. You can't have a "miss" year in recruiting or you will feel it hard.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[VolsDeep]

When did Poole outperform him???? In mop up duty??? You can't even count that. If that were the case Corey Larkins was a monster back in his day!! He'd come in and bust a long TD late in the 4th quarter of games.

Yeah, he was moved to CB.

Trust me I've done plenty of research. Poole was a 3* period end of story. It wasn't a leg injury it was an ankle. He played all year on it and was only "hindered" by it.

His bio on scout said "deserves a look".

I don't think that sounds like he was "highly thought of".

Done arguing with ya buddy. Poole will transfer or sit, that's just the way it is. I guess you can blame that on a bum leg too.

But you can at least agree that Poole is probably the best 4th string back in the SEC, no? I mean you talk about depth one minute and then act as if you want every person on our team to be a 1st team all-sec type performer... good luck selling that to recruits who want to play, unless your willing to be like USC and offer a beach, hot girls, and a free condo you are not gonna find a 4 or 5 star player that will choose to come to a school knowing there is a chance he could be 4th string...

 

[VolsDeep]

Agree 100%.

I'm not saying our 5th string kicker should dominate.

This entire thread is about RECRUITING thus the location of it. I want to recruit players who are "expected" to be a high-level player. I guess you can base that on * ratings if you want, but when I see a guy like Corey Miller or Kenbrell Thompkins... I know he will be a great DE or WR at UT. Is there a possibility they won't? Yes, but all that can be judged in hindsight which is what I'm doing with this thread. I just don't get that warm fuzzy with many of the guys in the '08 class, man sorry. I guess you're just not getting me...

This was all about the 2008 class and how useless it will end up being overall. You can't have a "miss" year in recruiting or you will feel it hard.

Let's just agree to disagree.

But you at least have to admit there is a chance that Miller and Thompkins could end up like Donald and O'Neal... I mean I understand what you are saying, and agree that 2008 was a bad year, but keep in mind that was also the year we lost our entire offensive staff. Just sayin, some things aren't as black and white as to say "Fulmer really screwed us." Despite how convenient it may be.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

if you want to see some really telling facts, take a look at all of ut's recruiting classes on volquest since 2002. It is absolutely ridiculous the number of players that either never panned out, quit or got kicked off the team for off the field issues.

The 2006 and 2008 recruiting classes were totally inexcuseable.

+1,000,000

 

[MrBamSeydu]

But you at least have to admit there is a chance that Miller and Thompkins could end up like Donald and O'Neal... I mean I understand what you are saying, and agree that 2008 was a bad year, but keep in mind that was also the year we lost our entire offensive staff. Just sayin, some things aren't as black and white as to say "Fulmer really screwed us." Despite how convenient it may be.

See you got all defensive about me "bashing" Fulmer. Trust me, I respect everything Fulmer did. This isn't even about Fulmer. Well, I guess it is to some degree but it's more about recruiting principals.

You CANNOT have a miss year in recruiting in the SEC. Especially 2 in 3 years ('06 and '08).

That's when you end up 5-7. That's just how it is.

Alabama's recruiting has gotten ridiculous with Saban. They're in the NCG. Pete Carrol and Meyer's recruiting is ridiculous. Mack Brown.

Do you see a trend?

And I totally agree, Donald (so far) and Kenny O were huge, HUGE busts. But some would say coaching may or may not have had to do with that. In my opinion they were just over-rated. That's always possible.

But again, for every Donald and Kenny O there's two dozen Josh Hawkins', Todd Campbells', Carson Andersons', etc that never see much action.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

But you can at least agree that Poole is probably the best 4th string back in the SEC, no? I mean you talk about depth one minute and then act as if you want every person on our team to be a 1st team all-sec type performer... good luck selling that to recruits who want to play, unless your willing to be like USC and offer a beach, hot girls, and a free condo you are not gonna find a 4 or 5 star player that will choose to come to a school knowing there is a chance he could be 4th string...

haha, I have no problem with Poole being our 4th stringer. I would agree he may very well be the best 4th string RB in the SEC.

I don't know that I'd brag about that if I were him. I mean, again, we're talking about recruiting here.

2008 class compared to 2009 and what we have so far in 2010.

I don't necessarily want 5* players going 4-deep at every position. I like the occasional Montori Hughes or even a Dennis Rogan. Key word: occasional. Not a team stocked with decent players or a signing class full of future backups.

That'd be fantastic though, wouldn't it? 4-deep with 5* players!!

Or do you disagree with that too?

 

[sjt18]

When did Poole outperform him???? In mop up duty??? You can't even count that.

Why other than it hurts the point you're trying to make? That's really the ONLY PT either of them got at RB. On the very few occasions when Oku got in at RB, he wasn't effective running the ball much less explosive. I hope he becomes great... but the only evidence that you and I have says that Poole outperformed him significantly.

If that were the case Corey Larkins was a monster back in his day!! He'd come in and bust a long TD late in the 4th quarter of games.

Non sequitur... look it up.

Trust me I've done plenty of research.

You start out with ridiculous and inaccurate shots at young Vol players and then want "trust"? Sorry but no.

It wasn't a leg injury it was an ankle.

Last time I checked the ankle was part of the leg... LOL@U.

Done arguing with ya buddy. Poole will transfer or sit, that's just the way it is. I guess you can blame that on a bum leg too.

Poole may do a number of things... and you'll still be a cosmic jerk for taking unsolicited shots at him and other players who may still develop.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

Pete Carrol's backup QBs play in the NFL haha. That's what I want (in a nutshell).

 

[kptvol]

So. Essentially the point of this thread is that it would be nice to have a lot of 4 and 5 star players? Thanks for sharing.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

Why other than it hurts the point you're trying to make? That's really the ONLY PT either of them got at RB. On the very few occasions when Oku got in at RB, he wasn't effective running the ball much less explosive. I hope he becomes great... but the only evidence that you and I have says that Poole outperformed him significantly. Non sequitur... look it up.

You start out with ridiculous and inaccurate shots at young Vol players and then want "trust"? Sorry but no. Last time I checked the ankle was part of the leg... LOL@U.



Poole may do a number of things... and you'll still be a cosmic jerk for taking unsolicited shots at him and other players who may still develop.

You aren't even worth arguing with dude haha.

At least this other cat arguing with me is listening to what I say.

An ankle is an ankle. A leg is a leg. A foot is a foot. A toe is a toe. It isn't just "a leg" haha. Take an anatomy course.

Ahh nevermind man, I give up on you. I hope Poole rushes for 3,000 yards next year. How about that?

 

[MrBamSeydu]

So. Essentially the point of this thread is that it would be nice to have a lot of 4 and 5 star players? Thanks for sharing.

No.

The point is when you get great players it normally equates to solid football seasons. When you do what our previous coach did in 2006 and 2008, you have bad seasons and struggle in a conference like the SEC.

It's all over the thread dude, just read.

For some reason it seems to have offended Fulmerites (thought those were extinct by now) and the people who actually understand recruiting get what I'm trying to say.

2006 and 2008 classes are on par with USCe and Kentucky.

2009 and 2010 classes much, much better potential. Closer to Alabama, Florida, LSU. Alot of the excitement around the program is based on how well we're recruiting. It's a simple concept but apparently harder to grasp onto than I thought....

 

[sjt18]

Oh, while we're arguing "stars"... Dan Williams, Dennis Rogan, Luke Stocker, Denarius Moore, Vlad Richard, LaMarcus Thompson, Savion Frazier,.... all very good players... all three stars. Reviez who CMK said was an All American caliber player... what was his star ranking again?

I'm pretty sure there's one or two All SEC players this year that weren't ranked.

The "extraordinarily talented" Ole Miss team that beat up on our Vols this year was made up of recruiting classes that never ranked higher than 16th and has only made Rival's top 25 twice in the last 5 years.

FTR, my point was never that Fulmer and staff didn't leave a team short on talented depth. CLK said that they were down something like 23 scholarship players at some time or another this year. Basically they played with 75% of a team... that doesn't mean that the guys you took shots at aren't or can't become very good players.

 

[kptvol]

No.

The point is when you get great players it normally equates to solid football seasons. When you do what our previous coach did in 2006 and 2008, you have bad seasons and struggle in a conference like the SEC.

It's all over the thread dude, just read.

For some reason it seems to have offended Fulmerites (thought those were extinct by now) and the people who actually understand recruiting get what I'm trying to say.

2006 and 2008 classes are on par with USCe and Kentucky. That's about where we're at right now.

2009 and 2010 classes much, much better potential. Alot of the excitement around the program is based on how well we're recruiting. It's a simple concept but apparently harder to grasp onto than I thought....

Oh, so the point is that good players can help make a good team. Well then excuse me. This is a really high plane of intellectual thought.

You chose to make your point about Fulmer leaving a bare cupboard by dogging a few of the players he left that are actually decent. Better examples would be the huge contingent Kiffin was forced to jettison, or the OL that aren't able to beat out our walkons.

 

[sjt18]

You aren't even worth arguing with dude haha.

That's how many people respond when their point won't stand up.

At least this other cat arguing with me is listening to what I say.

I'm reading what you write... You're just wrong about many things... and arrogantly so.

An ankle is an ankle. A leg is a leg. A foot is a foot. A toe is a toe. It isn't just "a leg" haha. Take an anatomy course.

Wow. Argue with brick walls much when the internet isn't available?

Ahh nevermind man, I give up on you. I hope Poole rushes for 3,000 yards next year. How about that?

Hey mo... try reading what "I" have written. I said he is a better player with better potential than what you give him credit for. I also posted a pretty much self-evident fact that he ran the ball better in our few opportunities to make an apples to apples comparison between him and Oku.

 

[MrBamSeydu]

Poole will transfer or he won't play. I mean, what else do you want me to say haha. He's decent. I agree.

I don't argue with brick walls, but you're coming pretty close.

The anatomy thing was serious. Not going any deeper into it with you than that. I suggest you take me up on it though or at least "research" it.

Where did my point not stand up? What does that even mean?

I give up on you haha. Seriously, this has to be Tauren Poole's cousin.

 

[sjt18]

No.


For some reason it seems to have offended Fulmerites (thought those were extinct by now) and the people who actually understand recruiting get what I'm trying to say.

So anyone who disagrees with you is by necessity a "fulmerite"? Nice argument there.

2006 and 2008 classes are on par with USCe and Kentucky.

Nope. The classes ranked higher.... providing even more proof that the rankings aren't the end all like you seem to think.

The biggest problem this year wasn't the percentage of surviving scholarship players that made contributons... it was simply attrition.

2009 and 2010 classes much, much better potential. Closer to Alabama, Florida, LSU. Alot of the excitement around the program is based on how well we're recruiting. It's a simple concept but apparently harder to grasp onto than I thought....

Here's the concept that someone isn't grasping.... You can be excited about the new recruits and new direction of the program without hating on other kids.