Funding for Energy Alternatives

#27
#27
We went through the same thing on a global scale in the 19th century. The whaling industry provided the world with oil to light their homes but whales almost became extinct. This was a scary reality for all, but they didn't turn government to come up with an alternative. The market did out of necessity. When truly there is a real demand for alternative energy, the market will supply it. Right now we are content with oil.
 
#28
#28
nbakerld said:
We went through the same thing on a global scale in the 19th century. The whaling industry provided the world with oil to light their homes but whales almost became extinct. This was a scary reality for all, but they didn't turn government to come up with an alternative. The market did out of necessity. When truly there is a real demand for alternative energy, the market will supply it. Right now we are content with oil.
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Many whale species would be extinct today without government intervention.

The fantasy world of "government/capital is great for everything!" on this forum is strangely pervasive.
 
#29
#29
IPorange said:
Many whale species would be extinct today without government intervention.

The fantasy world of "government/capital is great for everything!" on this forum is strangely pervasive.
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is gibbs rubbing off on you? If so, you may want to buy stock in whoever makes Brillo pads.
 
#30
#30
IPorange said:
Many whale species would be extinct today without government intervention.

The fantasy world of "government/capital is great for everything!" on this forum is strangely pervasive.
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Well, that's a tangent from the point I was making, but you don't need government to save the whales, man. All you need is ownership. Whale populations would thrive if we could own them as private property.

YouTube - Part 4: 5/8/09 John Stossel's "You Can't Even Talk About It"
 
#31
#31
milohimself said:
Like everybody would just switch over to something else? We're on course to ride that crude oil pony all the way into the sunset.
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if there's an alternative enough people will switch to make it work. However if you roll out a $50k electric car like it's going to save mankind then don't be surprised when it bombs

milohimself said:
With the Honda FCX (hydrogen fuel car that I've been pimping hard) Honda has been working on a NG water heater that will double as a hydrogen pump.
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make it viable and people will buy it. Until then...
 
#32
#32
nbakerld said:
Well, that's a tangent from the point I was making, but you don't need government to save the whales, man. All you need is ownership. Whale populations would thrive if we could own them as private property.

YouTube - Part 4: 5/8/09 John Stossel's "You Can't Even Talk About It"
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Being a whale rancher or even one of their cowpokes would be a pretty sweet gig. So to better take care of their food source, do someone need to own the oceans as well? Should they charge rent for all whales that aren't their's that feed on the plankton? Do they seek damages when a cruise ship dumps their raw sewage in their space? How would all of that work?
 
#33
#33
Fund energy research - okay.
Subsidize chosen energy approaches to make them market competitive - no.
 
#34
#34
utvolpj said:
if there's an alternative enough people will switch to make it work. However if you roll out a $50k electric car like it's going to save mankind then don't be surprised when it bombs



make it viable and people will buy it. Until then...
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I'm not, and it's their first foray into it. More demand and higher volume production will eventually mean reduced prices. I pay some attention. :thumbsup:
 
#35
#35
IPorange said:
Being a whale rancher or even one of their cowpokes would be a pretty sweet gig. So to better take care of their food source, do someone need to own the oceans as well? Should they charge rent for all whales that aren't their's that feed on the plankton? Do they seek damages when a cruise ship dumps their raw sewage in their space? How would all of that work?
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Those are good questions and it's untrodden ground so we've had no ability to experiment with this, but I'm willing to bet that building a whale farm on your own property along the coast (or some other similar solution) would be a lot more lucrative than poaching, no matter how much is required to prepare the whale farm.
 
#38
#38
nbakerld said:
Those are good questions and it's untrodden ground so we've had no ability to experiment with this, but I'm willing to bet that building a whale farm on your own property along the coast (or some other similar solution) would be a lot more lucrative than poaching, no matter how much is required to prepare the whale farm.
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whales migrate over thousands of miles, they're not brook trout that can be raised in giant swimming pools on a couple acres of land
 
#39
#39
pretty sure part of the pickens plan is a tax write off for at home fueling stations. I signed up to win a NG powered Honda Civic and home fueling station and the total package was worth $30K.
 
#41
#41
IPorange said:
Seems better than corn, but you'd still be using what would be agricultural space for energy purposes. Could be an issue. Also, the energy returns vs the costs of land degradation from harvesting, transportation of the crop and processing, and then distribution of the fuel makes it less efficient than fossil fuels, even if less polluting from a carbon point of view.



People keep mentioning the tidal generators. Have they even successfully done that anywhere yet?
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Look up "USDA CRP program". We have PLENTY of crop land that can be tilled again. The Federal gov't pays farmers not to plant something like 30 million acres. Much of the old south agricultural land could be tilled again with modern farming techniques and technology.
 
#42
#42
droski said:
with soaring food prices it's absurd to be growing corn for other purposes.
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Soaring food prices have very little to do with supply and demand of food... has much more to do with the value of the dollar and fuel prices.
 
#43
#43
sjt18 said:
Soaring food prices have very little to do with supply and demand of food... has much more to do with the value of the dollar and fuel prices.
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yes and no. replace the ethanol production with grain and i assure you prices would be significantly lower.
 
#44
#44
nbakerld said:
Those are good questions and it's untrodden ground so we've had no ability to experiment with this, but I'm willing to bet that building a whale farm on your own property along the coast (or some other similar solution) would be a lot more lucrative than poaching, no matter how much is required to prepare the whale farm.
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Whale biology doesn't lend to that, which is what I was getting at. They have annual movements of thousands and thousands of miles, to make sure they get the food they need. You couldn't just set up a whale ranch in the Gulf of Alaska. You'd have to move with the herd all around the Pacific, at the minimum. Trying to feed them all any other way becomes extremely cost-prohibitive, and damaging to the environment (your "land," err, water, presumably in this libertarian scenario).

These libertarian things start breaking down when they try to privatize the entire natural world. It's too interconnected to work well like that.
 
#45
#45
MG1968 said:
whales migrate over thousands of miles, they're not brook trout that can be raised in giant swimming pools on a couple acres of land
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I was unaware of this. Geese migrate and they are farmed. A little research showed that whales migrate primarily because of food and partly because of temperature. A farm takes care of the food problem. A location with fair climate year round takes care of the other problem.
 
#46
#46
IPorange said:
These libertarian things start breaking down when they try to privatize the entire natural world. It's too interconnected to work well like that.
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They start breaking down in our minds because we are unimaginative and we've never had a reason to come up with a solution. I think people are smart enough to come up with one given the opportunity. The free market has come up with countless modern marvels, I'm sure we can come up with a way to farm whales.
 
#47
#47
nbakerld said:
I was unaware of this. Geese migrate and they are farmed. A little research showed that whales migrate primarily because of food and partly because of temperature. A farm takes care of the food problem. A location with fair climate year round takes care of the other problem.
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and what about the size? or is your whale farm going to consist of genetically engineered pygmy whales that are no bigger than crappie?
 
#49
#49
MG1968 said:
and what about the size? or is your whale farm going to consist of genetically engineered pygmy whales that are no bigger than crappie?
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I had thought of something like this. I don't know what a crappie is, but yeah. Maybe that's the solution to the market demand.
 
#50
#50
You know the solution could be something as simple as a homing device you tag on whales you own and you allow them to do their natural migration. I think that's it. I knew we could come up with it if we thought about it long enough. 30 minutes or so. Not bad.
 
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