Funding for Energy Alternatives

#51
#51
droski said:
yes and no. replace the ethanol production with grain and i assure you prices would be significantly lower.
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Not if the USDA were directed to stop renewing CRP contracts. There is more land out west that could be productive but has never been tilled.

We're just talking about the US. It would also motivate investors to go into Africa with modern farming techiques. The point is that we do not lack the land.
 
#52
#52
good points. i'm not in favor of farm subsidies in general.
 
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#58
#58
173815.jpg
 
#59
#59
MG1968 said:
not so much debating as attempting to get the other guy to see that farming whales is about as good an idea as herding cats
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There's no money in herding cats. :no: There's A LOT of money in whaling.
 
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#61
#61
nbakerld said:
You know the solution could be something as simple as a homing device you tag on whales you own and you allow them to do their natural migration. I think that's it. I knew we could come up with it if we thought about it long enough. 30 minutes or so. Not bad.
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You seem to be unable to imagine rereading my original questions and addressing any of them. I had assumed you could keep track of your whales from the start. That isn't easy. Several species are already all each individually identified, named, and tracked.
 
#64
#64
IPorange said:
Yes. The free market is the best way to manage the environment. Ignore all that history over there.

It's like bizarro-world utgibbs.
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Yeah, history actually supports that statement. You know how the Clean Air Act came out in like 1973 or so? Well the 50 years prior to that air pollution was steadily improving by natural market mechanisms. Government piggy-backed the movement and revisionist history leads us to believe we couldn't have done it without the state.

You think government protects the environment? Regulation hasn't stopped people from polluting. Government nukes. Regulation that forces BP to drill at a depth where they have little experience (though BP is at fault, too). Etc.

"According to Pentagon spokesman Kevin Doxey, in 1991 there were 17,400 contaminated toxic waste dumps at 1,850 U.S. government installations. Waste from these sites is leaking into groundwater, contaminating land, killing livestock, and causing increased rates of cancers."

If it were a corporation everyone would know about it and be calling for the end of capitalism. Erin Brockovich successfully sued for $300M and got an Oscar over pollution that didn't cause increased rates of cancer.

Liberty and the Environment: Freedom Protects, Government Destroys
 
#66
#66
CSVol said:
House GOP Budget Proposal Would Stifle Energy Innovation - Energy Source - How we power the world - Forbes

Came across this when looking for info. on how the Japanese situation may effect our nuclear ambitions/search for alternative energy sources. Somewhat disheartening. It's a few weeks old so maybe clearer heads have/will prevail.
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To balance the budget according to Republican theology, everyone must share the burden. This means that funds for green energy research must be cut so that billions in subsidies for the most profitable companies in the history of the universe (ExxonMobile springs to mind) can be continued.

Sounds like a plan to me!
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#67
#67
nbakerld said:
Yeah, history actually supports that statement. You know how the Clean Air Act came out in like 1973 or so? Well the 50 years prior to that air pollution was steadily improving by natural market mechanisms. Government piggy-backed the movement and revisionist history leads us to believe we couldn't have done it without the state.

You think government protects the environment? Regulation hasn't stopped people from polluting. Government nukes. Regulation that forces BP to drill at a depth where they have little experience (though BP is at fault, too). Etc.

"According to Pentagon spokesman Kevin Doxey, in 1991 there were 17,400 contaminated toxic waste dumps at 1,850 U.S. government installations. Waste from these sites is leaking into groundwater, contaminating land, killing livestock, and causing increased rates of cancers."

If it were a corporation everyone would know about it and be calling for the end of capitalism. Erin Brockovich successfully sued for $300M and got an Oscar over pollution that didn't cause increased rates of cancer.

Liberty and the Environment: Freedom Protects, Government Destroys
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Nixon was motivated to create such legislation after Lake Erie had to be extinguished. It had caught on fire. You've been drinking some sweet kool aid.

I'm not claiming government has stopped pollution. It has slowed it down. Nothing but individuals not being selfish *******s can stop all of it.
 
#68
#68
Ip is a dyed-in-the-wool democrat. You have to underatand this. He's going to be pro government.
 
#71
#71
IPorange said:
Yup, Nixon and I are just huge Dems.
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NIxon was a big government guy. Might as well have been Democrat (or stay Republican, in my eyes there ain't much difference).

It just seems most people are afraid of the free market and their objections usually boil down to the fact that market mechanisms aren't perfect. My answer to that is no system is perfect and centralization usually creates more problems than solutions. Government control gives us warm fuzzies and peace of mind while it **** us in the ****. Freedom is the best solution. Freedom in and of itself is the ideal, the fact that it creates the greatest overall good is just a bonus.

There are always going to be polluters but public opinion sways corporations and nobody these days wants to be labelled unfriendly to the environment. They'll get in line without being told to do so. Government creates common resources and if you've studied economics at all you know of the tragedy of the commons and that it creates an inordinate amount of pollution.
 
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#73
#73
nbakerld said:
NIxon was a big government guy. Might as well have been Democrat (or stay Republican, in my eyes there ain't much difference).

It just seems most people are afraid of the free market and their objections usually boil down to the fact that market mechanisms aren't perfect. My answer to that is no system is perfect and centralization usually creates more problems than solutions. Government control gives us warm fuzzies and peace of mind while it **** us in the ****. Freedom is the best solution. Freedom in and of itself is the ideal, the fact that it creates the greatest overall good is just a bonus.

There are always going to be polluters but public opinion sways corporations and nobody these days wants to be labelled unfriendly to the environment. They'll get in line without being told to do so. Government creates common resources and if you've studied economics at all you know of the tragedy of the commons and that it creates an inordinate amount of pollution.
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I'm not a republican, either. I'm just not so stupid as to trust every idiot out there to be perfectly moral and ethical.

People don't always do the right thing, and there is no way to prevent the "haves" from bullying the "have-nots."

Who is to decide who shall own the whales?

The whole anarchy/ultra libertarianism thing is cute, but it's totally naive. It isn't for lack of imagination, either.
 
#74
#74
IPorange said:
I'm not a republican, either. I'm just not so stupid as to trust every idiot out there to be perfectly moral and ethical.

People don't always do the right thing, and there is no way to prevent the "haves" from bullying the "have-nots."

Who is to decide who shall own the whales?

The whole anarchy/ultra libertarianism thing is cute, but it's totally naive. It isn't for lack of imagination, either.
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Who decided who owns cattle and horses? So you don't believe in spontaneous order? Neither did these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi0meiActlU
 
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#75
#75
I give it 5 years and IP will be right beside me at some Tea Party rally.
 
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