Game Thread: (11/12) Lady Vols. 72 - Gonzaga. 73

[Rickster]

GAMEDAY TIMES & BROADCAST INFO

• Pre-game article
• Opponent: Gonzaga
• Date: Monday, 21 November 2022
• Tipoff: 2:30 ET
• Venue: Imperial Arena, Bahamas
• Watch: ESPNU
• Radio: Lady Vol Network
• Online: Live Audio, Live Stats
• Post-game article

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Go Lady Vols!!!

 

[Rickster]

Gonzaga took out Louisville by double digits in OT despite 29 turnovers for the game.

 

[creekdipper]

Gonzaga took out Louisville by double digits in OT despite 29 turnovers for the game.

Fire Wonder Boy!!!

 

[alexvol]

The best of luck to LV ....they will need every bit of luck that they can find.

 

[Lucy]

So this should probably go in the UCLA thread but I will let the “hair on fire” haters calm down before visiting that thread. Consequently this info may already be on there and my apologies for repeating.
Saw a segment with our own Andrea Carter after the UCLA game and she was asked where on a scale of not worried to panicked LVs should be. She said concerned and called out several issues. The biggest two seemed to be developing offensive flow and fluctuating intensity.
She used Rikea and Jordy as an example that they need to be aware where the other one is at all times and be moving based on where the other one is going. I don’t think she was calling them out just using them as an example of flow that, if achieved, would be difficult for opponents. I’m sure this example would apply to everyone on the floor. Where are your teammates and where do you need to be given that info?
Regarding intensity she commented that it ebbed and flowed for us. She tied this to defensive lapses, rebounding etc. I noticed Kellie in her post game presser was pretty incensed about two defensive lapses to start the second half that gave UCLA 6? points out of the gate.
They also acknowledged that Kellie was having to integrate five new players into the team.
Their final thoughts were that it was very early in the season and there was time to get these things corrected.
I think Andrea is great and is really insightful.

 

[chuckiepoo]

So this should probably go in the UCLA thread but I will let the “hair on fire” haters calm down before visiting that thread. Consequently this info may already be on there and my apologies for repeating.
Saw a segment with our own Andrea Carter after the UCLA game and she was asked where on a scale of not worried to panicked LVs should be. She said concerned and called out several issues. The biggest two seemed to be developing offensive flow and fluctuating intensity.
She used Rikea and Jordy as an example that they need to be aware where the other one is at all times and be moving based on where the other one is going. I don’t think she was calling them out just using them as an example of flow that, if achieved, would be difficult for opponents. I’m sure this example would apply to everyone on the floor. Where are your teammates and where do you need to be given that info?
Regarding intensity she commented that it ebbed and flowed for us. She tied this to defensive lapses, rebounding etc. I noticed Kellie in her post game presser was pretty incensed about two defensive lapses to start the second half that gave UCLA 6? points out of the gate.
They also acknowledged that Kellie was having to integrate five new players into the team.
Their final thoughts were that it was very early in the season and there was time to get these things corrected.
I think Andrea is great and is really insightful.

There was mention of it elsewhere but not nearly as centered or as thoroughly explained.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Gonzaga took out Louisville by double digits in OT despite 29 turnovers for the game.

Ouch. I hope we’re studying film tonight.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Gonzaga took out Louisville by double digits in OT despite 29 turnovers for the game.

Sounds like they're running Tennessee's playbook...

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Gonzaga took out Louisville by double digits in OT despite 29 turnovers for the game.

Gonzaga out rebounded Louisville 50 to 31. We have our work cut out for us.

 

[madtownvol]

So this should probably go in the UCLA thread but I will let the “hair on fire” haters calm down before visiting that thread. Consequently this info may already be on there and my apologies for repeating.
Saw a segment with our own Andrea Carter after the UCLA game and she was asked where on a scale of not worried to panicked LVs should be. She said concerned and called out several issues. The biggest two seemed to be developing offensive flow and fluctuating intensity.
She used Rikea and Jordy as an example that they need to be aware where the other one is at all times and be moving based on where the other one is going. I don’t think she was calling them out just using them as an example of flow that, if achieved, would be difficult for opponents. I’m sure this example would apply to everyone on the floor. Where are your teammates and where do you need to be given that info?
Regarding intensity she commented that it ebbed and flowed for us. She tied this to defensive lapses, rebounding etc. I noticed Kellie in her post game presser was pretty incensed about two defensive lapses to start the second half that gave UCLA 6? points out of the gate.
They also acknowledged that Kellie was having to integrate five new players into the team.
Their final thoughts were that it was very early in the season and there was time to get these things corrected.
I think Andrea is great and is really insightful.

On the comment about Jackson and Horston building their awareness, it is a good point but I think that is part of a larger problem. The LVs don;t have a lot of ball movement and players moving to space. Instead, we have a lot of ball dominant players who spend a lot of the shot clock looking to make something happen. Horston, Powell, Walker, Jackson are all dribble first players. It actually makes life hard on Tamari because more often than not, when she does get position in the post, there is no pass coming.
In the world of soccer, the best teams do a lot of one-touch passing to players who are finding pockets of space and when a player does dribble the ball it is to make decisive move against an imbalanced defense. I think that same principle applies to b-ball. More passing, and off ball movement and less dribbling. And that means players have to change tendencies or line-ups need to change if they can't.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

On the comment about Jackson and Horston building their awareness, it is a good point but I think that is part of a larger problem. The LVs don;t have a lot of ball movement and players moving to space. Instead, we have a lot of ball dominant players who spend a lot of the shot clock looking to make something happen. Horston, Powell, Walker, Jackson are all dribble first players. It actually makes life hard on Tamari because more often than not, when she does get position in the post, there is no pass coming.
In the world of soccer, the best teams do a lot of one-touch passing to players who are finding pockets of space and when a player does dribble the ball it is to make decisive move against an imbalanced defense. I think that same principle applies to b-ball. More passing, and off ball movement and less dribbling. And that means players have to change tendencies or line-ups need to change if they can't.

The only problem is Key doesn’t hold her position strong enough, and she can barely catch the ball without it getting knocked out her hands.

 

[Lucy]

On the comment about Jackson and Horston building their awareness, it is a good point but I think that is part of a larger problem. The LVs don;t have a lot of ball movement and players moving to space. Instead, we have a lot of ball dominant players who spend a lot of the shot clock looking to make something happen. Horston, Powell, Walker, Jackson are all dribble first players. It actually makes life hard on Tamari because more often than not, when she does get position in the post, there is no pass coming.
In the world of soccer, the best teams do a lot of one-touch passing to players who are finding pockets of space and when a player does dribble the ball it is to make decisive move against an imbalanced defense. I think that same principle applies to b-ball. More passing, and off ball movement and less dribbling. And that means players have to change tendencies or line-ups need to change if they can't.

Yep! She said we were getting stuck. I guess the defender picks up the player with the ball and no one has anticipated that and made themselves a passing option.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

On the comment about Jackson and Horston building their awareness, it is a good point but I think that is part of a larger problem. The LVs don;t have a lot of ball movement and players moving to space. Instead, we have a lot of ball dominant players who spend a lot of the shot clock looking to make something happen. Horston, Powell, Walker, Jackson are all dribble first players. It actually makes life hard on Tamari because more often than not, when she does get position in the post, there is no pass coming.
In the world of soccer, the best teams do a lot of one-touch passing to players who are finding pockets of space and when a player does dribble the ball it is to make decisive move against an imbalanced defense. I think that same principle applies to b-ball. More passing, and off ball movement and less dribbling. And that means players have to change tendencies or line-ups need to change if they can't.

Yes, I would like to see players drive to the basket without the ball, they’re usually ahead of their defender, then get the pass for the layup. Those always look like well designed plays. We can’t be all bunched up close to the basket, or no one has room to get much accomplished.

 

[Volfan2012]

Just play the game no expectations for our team right now. Were not defending, rebounding, or winning the turnover battle. If we win these we win the game. We've been losing them badly let us see what happens today.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Just play the game no expectations for our team right now. Were not defending, rebounding, or winning the turnover battle. If we win these we win the game. We've been losing them badly let us see what happens today.

It's amazing how quickly expectations went from Final Four to, eh let's just try to keep it competitive...

 

[Volfan2012]

It's amazing how quickly expectations went from Final Four to, eh let's just try to keep it competitive...

Happens when players can't learn to do what is necessary to win a game. Like being able to play defense against the player you are guarding or get a rebound when they miss a shot not let them shoot until they make one. Throw a pass to the opponent because you didn't think it through and see the danger of the situation you were trying to pull off. Yes you can have any roster of super stars, but when they just can't learn to do any of the things it takes to win which are mostly effort and common sense then this is where you are.

 

[Coach Jumper]

It's amazing how quickly expectations went from Final Four to, eh let's just try to keep it competitive...

not everyone has dropped their expectations
I haven't!

 

[Rickster]

Sounds like they're running Tennessee's playbook...

Thats only because you read and hear what you want and when facts get in the way, you make them up to fit your agenda.

 

[Rickster]

It's amazing how quickly expectations went from Final Four to, eh let's just try to keep it competitive...

Thats only because you read and hear what you want....

 

[glv98]

Happens when players refuse to do what is necessary to win a game.

So there's a major revolt among the LV players? Does your inside info on player attitude include when and why the team made the decision to punk KJH, make a mockery of their potential, and probably throw away any chance for their future in the WNBA? Because "refusal" indicates a conscious decision by all of them to dog it. No team member declined to go along, nor decided to reveal the evil plot?

Like 99% of the conspriacy theories going around today, this defies all logic. Even if a player cares nothing for their school or team, they do not want to look bad on national TV. But please, explain to me how this stubborn refusal and the resulting losses and humiliation comes about?

Also like 99% of conspriacy theory, this is really a simplistic and silly explanation for what's going on. I think the reverse is true; this team is begging for direction and would do anything to turn it around. The coaching staff needs to overhaul their entire approach to teaching and preparing these players. A good start would be to implement an actual offense, but that seems to be beyond everyone who touches the LV program.

 

[Rickster]

Happens when players refuse to do what is necessary to win a game. Like being able to play defense against the player you are guarding or get a rebound when they miss a shot not let them shoot until they make one. Throw a pass to the opponent because you didn't think it through and see the danger of the situation you were trying to pull off. Yes you can have any roster of super stars, but when they just refuse to do any of the things it takes to win which are mostly effort and common sense then this is where you are.

Do you know this for a fact or making an assumption?

 

[Volfan2012]

So there's a major revolt among the LV players? Does your inside info on player attitude include when and why the team made the decision to punk KJH, make a mockery of their potential, and probably throw away any chance for their future in the WNBA? Because "refusal" indicates a conscious decision by all of them to dog it. No team member declined to go along, nor to reveal the plot?

Like 99% of the conspriacy theories going around today, this defies all logic. Even if a player cares nothing for their school or team, they do not want to look bad on national TV. But please, explain to me how this stubborn refusal and the resulting losses and humiliation comes about?

Not a revolt refuse to use the knowledge given them to do what is necessary to win. They don't have a problem playing with each other, but they certainly aren't doing what they talk about they should be doing. They tell you what they should be doing. What they know is wrong and yet they all revert to not showing it on the court. To many posters want to talk about the offense yet all the problems stem from defense, rebounding, and just basic intelligent play.

 

[Volfan2012]

Do you know this for a fact or making an assumption?

Knowledge is gained and not used then what else can be if you can't transfer it to the court. I don't mean they are openly refusing to listen, but they never put it to practice in a game. If you say you know what to do yet you make no effort to do it then your just going around in a circle that never ends.

 

[Amb3096]

This team reminds me of Holly's first team with Diamond DeShields. On paper, they looked really talented and seemed like a surefire lock for the FF and to challenge UConn for the title. They just could not figure out how to play together and ended up being significantly worse as a team than one would expect given the individual pieces. Holly never recovered from that season either. Whoever said this year was Kellie's Waterloo moment might actually have a point.

 

[glv98]

She said concerned and called out several issues. The biggest two seemed to be developing offensive flow and fluctuating intensity.
She used Rikea and Jordy as an example that they need to be aware where the other one is at all times and be moving based on where the other one is going. I don’t think she was calling them out just using them as an example of flow that, if achieved, would be difficult for opponents. I’m sure this example would apply to everyone on the floor. Where are your teammates and where do you need to be given that info?

Yep! She said we were getting stuck. I guess the defender picks up the player with the ball and no one has anticipated that and made themselves a passing option.

I'm sure everyone is getting as tired of hearing this as I am of saying it, and especially seeing it play out. If we only had an offense, everyone would know where everyone else is, or should be, most of the time. But we don't have one beyond the one we rode to glory from the past millineum.

If you venture to the game thread, you'll see a good discussion about how in the world this could still be the case. Drea is about the thousandth commentator to call this out for over a decade, as well as fans for years and years. The answer that scares me so much is that because the LV institution won't tear away from the chains of the past, we are falling further and further behind.