Game Thread: #5 Tennessee (19-11, 10-6 SEC) vs #1 South Carolina (30-0, 16-0 SEC) Saturday 3/9/24 ~4:30 pm ET (ESPNU)

[VolBall09]

I have stayed away from the board because I was too bummed by the loss to read all the second guessing that would follow. For everything Kellie did "wrong" in those final seconds, it could have just as easily proven to be right. Sometimes good teams make plays. Midway through the 2nd, it appeared impossible that the LVs would actually take control of the game and force SC into a game winning buzzer beater. That comeback, even though it fell short, is the big takeaway.

It is indeed. This wound is still fresh though.

 

[mudcat1973]

I thought that at the time bc the second one missed so badly. JP is a much better ft shooter than that. Which would have been a good idea if she had made the first and we were up three. But not when we're just up two. I was the first in a series of bad decisions our kids made.

Maybe you saw a different interview than I, but in the presser she said they did want TK in rim protection and said they were "trying to get RIckea back to the ball." Said some were just not in the position they needed to be in. When Cardoso received the pass and squared to shoot, which was all she could do, certainly TK should have come at her, arms waving.

Meanwhile, Rickea just seemed confused the whole time. Tenatively guarded the inbound and like TK, just didn't react to the shot about to go up.

All of which is amazing bc those two are both about 30 yrs old and have played in the SEC for about 10 yrs ea. Of course a time out would have sorted things out, but there was also good reason to think they'd know what to do in that situation. Like the JP missed ft, just those little mental miscues.

I just hate it for both so much, that they're being defined by this after the way they played. Heard them being ridiculed at halftime of the Iowa game by the studio guys.


Hindsight, Kellie should have used the t.o. if only to get Jill in the game to guard the inbound. That might have forced a bounce pass and the game would have been over. But I totally get why she didn't; Dawn said she wouldn't have.

I'm curious about Jewel fouling Fulwiley. Another case where generally you would w fouls to give, but it does advance the ball as opposed to Fulwiley who was a little unhinged (probably bc of the obvious double dribble) and about to heave one. I wonder if the bench was telling her to foul, or if Jewel, a savvy player, knew we had one to give and that's what usually does. Another in the series of small mental errors.

Monday morning quarter
Maybe put Wynn in
Tell every Player their man
Guard but foul don't give up and one

 

[mudcat1973]

Based on how good this team CAN play when it is firing on all cylinders,,,E8 is the Mendoza line right now...

"Selection Saturday" draw notwithstanding

agree?

Best guess a seven seed

 

[creekdipper]

I have stayed away from the board because I was too bummed by the loss to read all the second guessing that would follow. For everything Kellie did "wrong" in those final seconds, it could have just as easily proven to be right. Sometimes good teams make plays. Midway through the 2nd, it appeared impossible that the LVs would actually take control of the game and force SC into a game winning buzzer beater. That comeback, even though it fell short, is the big takeaway.

Yes, that is one of the biggest blows.

One break (like correct ref call) goes our way, and the Sports Center narrative is Tennessee women taking down #1 and ruining their undefeated season. Rickea gets her due. The toughness of the team and the improbable, miraculous comeback is the focus. Kellie gets some vindication. Recruits take notice. The future is bright

Instead, all the positive focus goes to the media darlings who blew a 23-point lead (never mentioned). Any mention of the Lady Vols is ridicule and mockery of the coach. Some news pieces nearly omit Tenn entirely to highlight "the shot." Staley is praised as a genius, and Kellie's heartbreak is used in a taunting meme.

A bitter pill indeed. Now we know how Belmont felt two years ago, only this was on a much bigger stage with much bigger stakes

It's like having a huge pile of chips ready to cash in, and one bad card loses the whole pot. Only it's done on national television to be replayed over and over (now and in the future).

 

[Coach Jumper]

I have watched the end of the game from both sides SC and TN

SC,,Dawns last instruction was for Cardoso to move into the foulline area,,,she says nothing after that (that I can see), and Cardoso moves to the arc to receive the pass and shoots...So this was not brilliance on Dawn,,,it was pure luck

Tennessee
11.5 seconds we are up 73-71...JP misses her foul shots. Since we are still ahead, I do not put this loss on JP...much happened after her misses and we were still ahead. 2 fouls to give and two timeouts.

3.7 seconds Jewel fouls SC and SC must throw in with 1.1 seconds on the clock....No timeout taken... {{I would have called a timeout bc even though SC had no timeout Dawns could set things up bc play was opposite end of TN and Dawns had more control in that play was on her side of the court))...13:00/1.1,,,Everyone is assigned By Kellie. I know this bc she has her hands down and no commands are coming from her and she is now watching

Rickea is in no man's land,,,For a shot to come from there it would have to be a returned pass to the inbounder and that takes at least 2 full seconds...Puckett has the down-low man and Key is at center paint,,standing ...Cardoso is completely free to do whatever she wants to do...

 

[creekdipper]

I do remember seeing Kellie waving and gesturing with both hands trying to position the defense. Saw it on replay, too.

Don't remember if this was before or after Cardoso came up top.

 

[madtownvol]

I have watched the end of the game from both sides SC and TN

SC,,Dawns last instruction was for Cardoso to move into the foulline area,,,she says nothing after that (that I can see), and Cardoso moves to the arc to receive the pass and shoots...So this was not brilliance on Dawn,,,it was pure luck

Tennessee
11.5 seconds we are up 73-71...JP misses her foul shots. Since we are still ahead, I do not put this loss on JP...much happened after her misses and we were still ahead. 2 fouls to give and two timeouts.

3.7 seconds Jewel fouls SC and SC must throw in with 1.1 seconds on the clock....No timeout taken... {{I would have called a timeout bc even though SC had no timeout Dawns could set things up bc play was opposite end of TN and Dawns had more control in that play was on her side of the court))...13:00/1.1,,,Everyone is assigned By Kellie. I know this bc she has her hands down and no commands are coming from her and she is now watching

Rickea is in no man's land,,,For a shot to come from there it would have to be a returned pass to the inbounder and that takes at least 2 full seconds...Puckett has the down-low man and Key is at center paint,,standing ...Cardoso is completely free to do whatever she wants to do...

The TO is not such a big deal if the team had situational awareness. Three points was the only way they could lose. Just guard the 3 point without fouling. Make the entry pass and catch take a little time. Kellie has to take the blame as HC but players should have known that they only lose with a 3. Of course, Cardossa had not made a three (maybe even taken one all season) so they also were playing the odds. She makes that shot probably one in ten. Tragically, this time was the one.

 

[madtownvol]

Yes, that is one of the biggest blows.

One break (like correct ref call) goes our way, and the Sports Center narrative is Tennessee women taking down #1 and ruining their undefeated season. Rickea gets her due. The toughness of the team and the improbable, miraculous comeback is the focus. Kellie gets some vindication. Recruits take notice. The future is bright

Instead, all the positive focus goes to the media darlings who blew a 23-point lead (never mentioned). Any mention of the Lady Vols is ridicule and mockery of the coach. Some news pieces nearly omit Tenn entirely to highlight "the shot." Staley is praised as a genius, and Kellie's heartbreak is used in a taunting meme.

A bitter pill indeed. Now we know how Belmont felt two years ago, only this was on a much bigger stage with much bigger stakes

It's like having a huge pile of chips ready to cash in, and one bad card loses the whole pot. Only it's done on national television to be replayed over and over (now and in the future).

All so true. Winning the NC from a 7 or 8 seed would further change the narrative. the way they played in the SEC, it is no longer so far fetched, if they can get a little more from Key and Hollingshead.

 

[creekdipper]

Well, the turnover isn't any factor if one of dozens of other things had gone right including free throws that would have made it virtually impossible for SC to win.

Yes, we screwed up. But we didn't get an unfair break, and SC did. That ignored call made the final play possible. Otherwise, game over barring a mistake far worse than what happened.

 

[mcannon1]

I have watched the end of the game from both sides SC and TN
SC, Dawn's last instruction was for Cardoso to move into the foulline area,,,she says nothing after that (that I can see), and Cardoso moves to the arc to receive the pass and shoots...So this was not brilliance on Dawn,,,it was pure luck

How Kamilla Cardoso's game-winning 3-pointer came together for South Carolina women's basketball

Kamilla Cardoso didn't know the play for South Carolina, but her 3-pointer sent the Gamecocks past the Lady Vols in the SEC Tournament semifinals.

www.greenvilleonline.com

Greenville Online

"Originally, the play called for Cardoso to get the inbounds pass and find senior guard Te-Hina Paopao, the best 3-point shooter in the nation. Paopao, though, was heavily defended, so Staley told Cardoso to shoot it."

 

[chuckiepoo]

I have stayed away from the board because I was too bummed by the loss to read all the second guessing that would follow. For everything Kellie did "wrong" in those final seconds, it could have just as easily proven to be right. Sometimes good teams make plays. Midway through the 2nd, it appeared impossible that the LVs would actually take control of the game and force SC into a game winning buzzer beater. That comeback, even though it fell short, is the big takeaway.

…I couldn’t resist. Good on you, @madtownvol !

 

[chuckiepoo]

Cardoso moves to the arc to receive the pass and shoots...So this was not brilliance on Dawn,,,it was pure luck

Cardosa’s bb iq.

 

[glv98]

I do remember seeing Kellie waving and gesturing with both hands trying to position the defense. Saw it on replay, too.

Don't remember if this was before or after Cardoso came up top.

The TO is not such a big deal if the team had situational awareness. Three points was the only way they could lose. Just guard the 3 point without fouling. Make the entry pass and catch take a little time. Kellie has to take the blame as HC but players should have known that they only lose with a 3. Of course, Cardossa had not made a three (maybe even taken one all season) so they also were playing the odds. She makes that shot probably one in ten. Tragically, this time was the one.

I just long ass posted in another thread. I rewatched closely the 1.1 seconds from hell and the waving and gesturing was Kellie 100% intentionally positioning Rickea in that inexplicable no mans land she ended up in. Rickea followed KJH direction step by step, even being slightly tweaked by KJH at one point. Even a second to spare after the positioning and before the inbound. WT very F she was thinking I don't know. No ball pressure, but no guarding of Kamilla.

Only player lack of situ awareness was not to run toward KC yelling and waving the instant she caught. Couldn't have risked a foul though.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I just long ass posted in another thread. I rewatched closely the 1.1 seconds from hell and the waving and gesturing was Kellie 100% intentionally positioning Rickea in that inexplicable no mans land she ended up in. Rickea followed KJH direction step by step, even being slightly tweaked by KJH at one point. Even a second to spare after the positioning and before the inbound. WT very F she was thinking I don't know. No ball pressure, but no guarding of Kamilla.

Only player lack of situ awareness was not to run toward KC yelling and waving the instant she caught. Couldn't have risked a foul though.

Hard to coach up “it”. Presence. Some refer to it as “being in the zone”. When the active competition slows down and you have all the time in the world to make a perfect play. Kamilla was blessed to experience that moment. Our turn is coming.

 

[glv98]

Hard to coach up “it”. Presence. Some refer to it as “being in the zone”. When the active competition slows down and you have all the time in the world to make a perfect play. Kamilla was blessed to experience that moment. Our turn is coming.

You can be better prepared to guard against "it". A little ball pressure or a little presence on KC and "it" has a little bit of a struggle at least.

Not trying to dog KJH, just was curious how it happened since it seemed so odd for Rickea to be, like, nowhere. Thought initially RJ was confused where to be, then as 1908 said thought was getting conflicting info. Neither the case, it was willful positioning. I still don't understand.

As far as our turn, you'd dang well think it but time is pretty short.

 

[chuckiepoo]

You can be better prepared to guard against "it". A little ball pressure or a little presence on KC and "it" has a little bit of a struggle at least.

Not trying to dog KJH, just was curious how it happened since it seemed so odd for Rickea to be, like, nowhere. Thought initially RJ was confused where to be, then as 1908 said thought was getting conflicting info. Neither the case, it was willful positioning. I still don't understand.

As far as our turn, you'd dang well think it but time is pretty short.

Rather than allowing Key to read the game, Key got distracted by Kellie. Granted, Key rarely moves out away from the paint.

 

[glv98]

Rather than allowing Key to read the game, Key got distracted by Kellie.

Didn't appear to me Key had much to do with it. They wanted her protecting the rim and that's what she did. They never wanted her actually guarding Kamilla. Way too much danger of getting beat to the rim w a lob. All the attention and positioning during the changeover concerned Rickea.

Point is, both appear to be in exactly the position KJH wanted them in. It's been speculated they didn't know, didn't obey, etc. Kellie said in the presser they didn't get everyone where they needed to be, yet she was completely settled in with it in the moment.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Didn't appear to me Key had much to do with it. They wanted her protecting the rim and that's what she did. They never wanted her actually guarding Kamilla. Way too much danger of getting beat to the rim w a lob. All the attention and positioning during the changeover concerned Rickea.

Point is, both appear to be in exactly the position KJH wanted them in. It's been speculated they didn't know, didn't obey, etc. Kellie said in the presser they didn't get everyone where they needed to be, yet she was completely settled in with it in the moment.

I agree. That’s the point in time when the “it” kicks in. Out performing the coaching. My current example is Tom Brady. Patrick Mahomes has “it”. CJ Shroud is an up and comer.
Hooker had a little “it”.

 

[glv98]

Cardosa’s bb iq.

May have been, but Dawn took credit for it.

I agree. That’s the point in time when the it kicks in. Out performing the coaching. My current example is Tom Brady. CJ Shroud is an up and comer.
Hooker had a little “it”.

Not sure I understand. You mean Rickea or Key should have just busted the assignment and guarded someone? Oh snap, that would have been such a Rickea move! Actually, as I said, her first instinct was guard KC, then they moved her toward the ball, then finally to the island.

 

[chuckiepoo]

May have been, but Dawn took credit for it.

Not sure I understand. You mean Rickea or Key should have just busted the assignment and guarded someone? Oh snap, that would have been such a Rickea move! Actually, as I said, her first instinct was guard KC, then they moved her toward the ball, then finally to the island.

The issue, as I see it, is that Kellie’s focus on moving Key back for rim protection left Cardoso with an uncontested shot. Pick yer poison.

 

[glv98]

The issue, as I see it, is that Kellie’s focus on moving Key back for rim protection left Cardoso with an uncontested shot.

The issue for me is what the heck are they doing with RIckea. If you use Key for rim protection, Rickea has to either guard KC, as she initially set up for, or guard the inbound, which she later went toward. But Kellie parked her inexplicably in between where her best athlete was essentially frozen out of either task.

My choice would have been Rickea all over the inbound, and Key cheating toward Kamilla if she didn't make a rim run, and closing out on her if she made a catch. But nowhere near fouling.

I get not wanting TK to straight up guard KC 1 on 1. She would have either fouled her or KC would have gone by her.

 

[Lucy]

The issue for me is what the heck are they doing with RIckea. If you use Key for rim protection, Rickea has to either guard KC, as she initially set up for, or guard the inbound, which she later went toward. But Kellie parked her inexplicably in between where her best athlete was essentially frozen out of either task.

My choice would have been Rickea all over the inbound, and Key cheating toward Kamilla if she didn't make a rim run, and closing out on her if she made a catch. But nowhere near fouling.

I get not wanting TK to straight up guard KC 1 on 1. She would have either fouled her or KC would have gone by her.

Who is guarding PP? Wouldn’t Rikea have left PP open if she went to Cardozo.

 

[glv98]

Who is guarding PP? Wouldn’t Rikea have left PP open if she went to Cardozo.

I'm glad you asked. PP, their first option for a 3, was in absolute lockdown by the incredibly mentally tough JP. Who was fresh off the worst moment of her young life when she missed those fts. She never skipped a beat, gathered herself and got back on D.

Jewel was still guarding Fulwiley, who was still shaking from having gotten away with that double dribble. Sara was guarding Watkins I believe, and maybe trying to foul her w our last foul to give.

JP actually owned PP defensively during the 3 game series. PP I believe is the national leader in 3 pt %, but JP held her to 1-8 shooting, 1-4 3 pt Saturday. Held her scoreless on 0-9 shooting when they played here. Sure wish this was more widely known.

Also, as creek noted earlier, JP got joustled hard when the SC stormed the court, but kept composure and just walked out of the tangle. After the sh*tshow yesterday, I will never not admire the sh*t out of that about JP.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Who is guarding PP? Wouldn’t Rikea have left PP open if she went to Cardozo.

JP had a glove on her most of the night.

 

[ttharp]

The issue for me is what the heck are they doing with RIckea. If you use Key for rim protection, Rickea has to either guard KC, as she initially set up for, or guard the inbound, which she later went toward. But Kellie parked her inexplicably in between where her best athlete was essentially frozen out of either task.

My choice would have been Rickea all over the inbound, and Key cheating toward Kamilla if she didn't make a rim run, and closing out on her if she made a catch. But nowhere near fouling.

I get not wanting TK to straight up guard KC 1 on 1. She would have either fouled her or KC would have gone by her.

I like this strategy.

I also would’ve been a huge fan of Jillian guarding the inbound pass, TK cheating towards Kamilla, RJ guarding Ashlynn Watkins, Jewel guarding Fulwiley and JP guarding Pao Pao.