Game Thread: Fla ST v Lady Vols, Wed Dec 4th; Home-FCC; 7:15 PM; SEC+ network: TN wins 79-77

[Lucy]

I would cut Puckett's minutes before either of those two. Hollingshead played a pretty good game in my opinion. The LV's defense really suffers when Darby and Puckett are in the game at the same time.

Would have liked Favor and Strick to get some of those minutes.

 

[RebKell]

A little look ahead. According to Massey both are rated Top 10.

Date	Team	Standing	Scr	Pred	Pwin	Margin	Total
Sat 12.07 7:00.PM.ET	Tennessee Iowa Brooklyn, NY	# 10 (6-0) # 3 (8-0)	0 0	74 79	39 % 61 %	-4.5	154.5

Team	Record	Δ	Rat	Pwr	Off	Def	HFA	SoS	SSF	EW	EL
Correlation	796		1000	975	916	888	-257	647	863	613	-647
South Carolina Southeastern	7-1 0.875		1 9.27	1 80.51	2 106.99	1 38.78	2.70	2 60.29	1 61.54	19.41	2.59
Connecticut Big East	7-0 1.000	+1	2 9.11	2 74.52	10 103.81	2 35.98	2.67	19 52.45	21 56.88	20.48	3.52
Iowa Big 10	8-0 1.000	-1	3 9.03	4 72.55	1 108.37	40 29.43	2.65	13 54.43	2 60.36	15.75	5.25
Texas Southeastern	7-0 1.000		4 9.01	3 73.63	5 104.77	5 34.12	2.62	44 48.34	3 59.28	18.66	5.34
UCLA Big 10	8-0 1.000	+2	5 8.95	7 70.35	16 101.38	4 34.23	2.65	18 52.80	6 58.83	16.14	5.86
LSU Southeastern	9-0 1.000		6 8.95	5 72.26	3 106.13	16 31.39	2.60	51 48.01	15 57.69	16.95	5.05
Ohio St Big 10	7-0 1.000	+1	7 8.69	8 70.08	9 104.04	17 31.30	2.69	126 43.38	17 57.66	15.96	6.04
Maryland Big 10	9-0 1.000	+2	8 8.67	18 67.22	7 104.45	58 28.03	2.89	60 47.14	11 58.14	12.67	7.33
Duke Atlantic Coast	8-1 0.889	+7	9 8.66	12 67.84	26 99.68	8 33.42	2.76	5 56.32	5 59.02	14.56	6.44
Tennessee Southeastern	6-0 1.000	+4	10 8.61	14 67.56	6 104.65	52 28.17	2.73	65 46.98	7 58.81	15.07	7.93

 

[Coach Jumper]

Would have liked Favor and Strick to get some of those minutes.

Favor has only showed up in one game IMO
Strickland I agree has earned a little more time

 

[lvocd]

When we're in heavy press mode, I think sometimes the frantic pace carries over to our offense. We have to learn to play w pace without hurrying and losing control. Hopefully that will come.

It is helping me to remember that Kim has installed this system a few times now and with great success. According to her, each time there have been early growing pains, and sometimes her teams looked a mess.

But as she has seen the progression many times, I'm guessing the same or similar issues have come up over and over again -- such as the frantic pace of the press carrying over to the offense -- but she has, every year, seen how, eventually, it all comes together.

Kim is quite sure of her system. There's probably a few more issues that'll come up in the future, but I believe she'll have them covered. She and assistants Jenna, Angel, Lexie and to a certain extent, S&C coordinator Horvath, are the ones who've seen this system being learned before, from week one of practice to whatever championships they were winning year after year.

They've seen ALL these markers before. Because we haven't we wonder if it'll work out. But I don't think Kim would be as confident as she is unless she knows everything is going according to plan.

They've got this!

A double-digit win against Iowa would sure be nice, eh?

 

[volfan102455]

When we're in heavy press mode, I think sometimes the frantic pace carries over to our offense. We have to learn to play w pace without hurrying and losing control. Hopefully that will come.

Totally agree with this. First time to view an entire game. We lost a big lead and were lucky to get back under control and hold on for the win. That won't happen with the top teams that we need to compete with.

We seem to be living and dying with that 3-point quick shot so when it goes cold, we don't score and then if the other team is playing in control to take the higher probability shot any lead will diminish quickly or we'll get behind quickly.

Later in the fourth quarter I did notice there was a better selection and effort to get the high probability shots instead of just throwing up the 3 point attempt quickly.

 

[volfan102455]

I have no concern with the fast past pressing game - we just need to be smarter when we are on offense with shot selection.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Favor has only showed up in one game IMO
Strickland I agree has earned a little more time

Yea I agree! Although Favor has a high motor, she’s a little erratic on the court. I’m surprised Strick didn’t get a little playing time.

Without looking, I think she’s shooting pretty well from 3 this year, although I don’t think she’s taken that many.

 

[madtownvol]

Never know what is going to happen in a basketball game. We could've come out in the second half and shot the lights out and won by 35. Instead after shooting 45 percent in the first half and 35 from the three we shot in the 30's and three point 20's. It was not their defense we had the shots. Some were shots we shouldn't have taken. Some we just missed that were good shots.
We have to get to the foul line more we've got the players and athletes that can get there. 7 free throws is not an amount you need to see in any game. I'd like to see some of the players cut down on the threes and drive the ball more. You almost have to foul Cooper to stop her from getting to the basket same for Spearman and a couple other players on the team.
My take is were a long way from reaching our potential. This team can be really good. Determining better shot selection and like Florida State identifying the shooters that need to take the most shots is something I think we will figure out as the season progresses. This team could be really good by tournament time. I can see us being one of the toughest outs in the country.

Yes, almost all of their 35 3's, most were "good looks" (contrary to common cliches, it does not matter if a "good look" happens early or late in the shot cock. Holding on to the ball longer does not improve the probability of a shot going in).

The issue is that everyone is a shooter in CKC's system which means that Hollingshead, Latham, Spearman, and Boyd (whose shot seems like a work in progress) are taking their share of threes. And it does not help that Puckett is mired in a terrible shooting slump.

I am sure teams are more than happy to let Jillian take open 3s. The odds are in their favor. Spearman, Lathan, Hollingshead, and Boyd were a combined 2 for 14, which any opponent will take in heartbeat.

Right now, Spear, Darby, Cooper, and Spencer are the players you want taking 3s. I would add Sara to that list because eventually she will start hitting. Strickland also has a good stroke as well when she plays.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

Totally agree with this. First time to view an entire game. We lost a big lead and were lucky to get back under control and hold on for the win. That won't happen with the top teams that we need to compete with.

If it worked against Florida State then it can be done against any team we’ll face this season.
Oklahoma had to come back to beat Louisville.
South Carolina had a close game against Michigan.
UConn loss a large lead to a decent Ole Miss team before pulling away to win.
LSU needed a buzzer beater to win against Washington.

Every game the Lady Vols win does not have to be a start to finish victory. They built a large lead and then Florida State made a run.
That’s how part of the game.
A win is a win.

 

[lvocd]

What I like most about Favor's game is her toughness and willingness to stand in for charges and such. I've spent a little time focusing on her and found she scraps for the ball on defense and can be surprisingly intense. She actually reminds me a little of Keyen Green in that respect.

So, yeah, I was somewhat disappointed she didn't see any court time last night. I'm guessing if the second half had been a continuation of the first half instead of a tight game she and Ace both would have played. I have been pleasantly surprised by both of them so far, as well as Boyd. She had an off game last night but I'm not worried. That kid can play.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Totally agree with this. First time to view an entire game. We lost a big lead and were lucky to get back under control and hold on for the win. That won't happen with the top teams that we need to compete with.

We seem to be living and dying with that 3-point quick shot so when it goes cold, we don't score and then if the other team is playing in control to take the higher probability shot any lead will diminish quickly or we'll get behind quickly.

Later in the fourth quarter I did notice there was a better selection and effort to get the high probability shots instead of just throwing up the 3 point attempt quickly.

Absolutely accurate perception volfan102455! The LVs are too quick to take the lower scoring probability 3 pt shot instead of working to get a higher scoring probability shot. This is a coaching problem. CKC needs to correct this ASAP! The FSU coach said her team took advantage of this LV tendency in the 3rd quarter.

 

[Volfan2012]

Yes, almost all of their 35 3's, most were "good looks" (contrary to common cliches, it does not matter if a "good look" happens early or late in the shot cock. Holding on to the ball longer does not improve the probability of a shot going in).

The issue is that everyone is a shooter in CKC's system which means that Hollingshead, Latham, Spearman, and Boyd (whose shot seems like a work in progress) are taking their share of threes. And it does not help that Puckett is mired in a terrible shooting slump.

I am sure teams are more than happy to let Jillian take open 3s. The odds are in their favor. Spearman, Lathan, Hollingshead, and Boyd were a combined 2 for 14, which any opponent will take in heartbeat.

Right now, Spear, Darby, Cooper, and Spencer are the players you want taking 3s. I would add Sara to that list because eventually she will start hitting. Strickland also has a good stroke as well when she plays.

Exactly Spearman needs to buy into driving the basket and living in the paint. She could really do some damage in there against most teams. It was the Cooper and Spearman show in the fourth quarter. Three ill advised threes two by Spearman and one by Whitehorn. Have to say letting Cooper, Spearman and others work more in the paint seems to be where this team could really improve those shooting percentage and efficiency in scoring.
Watching the game the second time all the threes were open but we have to many players that are not three point shooters taking to many. I would say there were at least 12 that were shots we should have not taken. Just me I like Cooper with the ball in her hands Spear and Spencer winging it and Spearman, Latham, and Hollingshead working inside. Ruby is more of a mid- range get to the basket shooter as well. Puckett, Boyd, and Darby are our other wings.

 

[Voluble2]

I still don't understand the why of all this. Why not just don't sin? This concept still seems like going to a sh*t ton of trouble when you could just play straight, take and make good shots? Like we did tonight almost the whole second half? I really liked how the LVs looked minus all the extra frenatic chaos and constant whistles.

We were beaten soundly in the second half.

We only won because of "frenetic chaos" in the first half.

 

[Voluble2]

I don’t understand why we stopped pressing? That’s what got us our lead in the first half. The third quarter we stopped trapping and pressing and that’s who in Florida State got back in the game.

We weren't hitting any shots and thus could not apply the press. Especially so when we were lackadaisical and turning the ball over for runouts.

Kim said this herself and I pointed it out during the game.

 

[Clad in Big Orange]

I think as time goes by, “KC and the funshine bunch” will adjust the style to be more of a blended approach like last night. As she said, some opponents will be more susceptible to the press than others. Ultimately, you gotta do what gives you the best chance to win the game you are playing.

 

[Voluble2]

For me it's not a matter of understanding. It just doesn't seem more worth all the effort than just taking and making good shots in the first place. Breaking your back to cover for a problem you created.

I'm afraid this is true, and I'd include Sara on the cut mins list in favor of Latham as well.

Taking bad shots is not part of the system

That is the part you don't understand.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Yes, almost all of their 35 3's, most were "good looks" (contrary to common cliches, it does not matter if a "good look" happens early or late in the shot cock. Holding on to the ball longer does not improve the probability of a shot going in).

The issue is that everyone is a shooter in CKC's system which means that Hollingshead, Latham, Spearman, and Boyd (whose shot seems like a work in progress) are taking their share of threes. And it does not help that Puckett is mired in a terrible shooting slump.

I am sure teams are more than happy to let Jillian take open 3s. The odds are in their favor. Spearman, Lathan, Hollingshead, and Boyd were a combined 2 for 14, which any opponent will take in heartbeat.

Right now, Spear, Darby, Cooper, and Spencer are the players you want taking 3s. I would add Sara to that list because eventually she will start hitting. Strickland also has a good stroke as well when she plays.

CKC is a coach in CPS footsteps(player substitutions, etc.), except she is offensive-minded as opposed to Pat's defensive-mindness. BTW, LVs are No. 1 in WCBB scoring.

 

[37620VOL]

Anyone else think Puckett's 3p shot has a bit too much arc on it? I'm sure the LVs use Noah Pro, or something similar, right?

 

[37620VOL]

I don’t understand why we stopped pressing? That’s what got us our lead in the first half. The third quarter we stopped trapping and pressing and that’s who in Florida State got back in the game.

Couldn't agree more. We only caused 4 TOs in the second half. We caused 12 in the first half. Unsurprisingly, we won the first half by 18 and lost the second half by 16.

 

[volsagain]

Would have liked Favor and Strick to get some of those minutes.

What little I've seen of Strickland I like her game. Surprised she doesn't play more but we're not at practice so we'll just have to guess. Love CKC think we have a really good one.

 

[VolBall09]

I would cut Puckett's minutes before either of those two. Hollingshead played a pretty good game in my opinion. The LV's defense really suffers when Darby and Puckett are in the game at the same time.

Yes, Jill’s interior defense in the first half was a difference maker. She was giving Timson a fit with her length.

Latham needs all of Puckett’s minutes. I said max 10 for Sara yesterday. Truly don’t think she should be playing that many. She is 24% from the floor and 16% from three this season.

She is taking about 10 shots a game on 21 minutes. If she’s going to shoot like that there is no reason to have her out there shooting 10 shots a game.

Latham is a much better defender and rebounder. Shoots 44% and 26% and is playing 15 minutes pg. I expect her minutes to increase dramatically in SEC play.

Tess is still valuable because she is truly a knockdown three point shooter if left open. Teams have to guard her and it spreads the floor like we want. Right now teams are just waving Puckett off because her shooting is so bad. Giving her the Raven Johnson treatment.

 

[volfan102455]

Absolutely accurate perception volfan102455! The LVs are too quick to take the lower scoring probability 3 pt shot instead of working to get a higher scoring probability shot. This is a coaching problem. CKC needs to correct this ASAP! The FSU coach said her team took advantage of this LV tendency in the 3rd quarter.

It was very obvious the FSU coach was taking advantage of the tendency for the fast shot. FSU coach did not panic because she knew they were going to get the ball back enough to make up the lead if those 3 pointers stopped falling.

I love the 3 after 3 after 3 if they are going in - but if a player and the entire team goes cold from the three, at some point you need to work for the best shot to get back into rhythm.

 

[volfan102455]

If it worked against Florida State then it can be done against any team we’ll face this season.
Oklahoma had to come back to beat Louisville.
South Carolina had a close game against Michigan.
UConn loss a large lead to a decent Ole Miss team before pulling away to win.
LSU needed a buzzer beater to win against Washington.

Every game the Lady Vols win does not have to be a start to finish victory. They built a large lead and then Florida State made a run.
That’s how part of the game.
A win is a win.

It worked because (1) we somehow got a big lead when the shots were falling, so we had points to give and (2) at the point FSU caught up, there seemed to be a switch to work for close in shots (i.e. 2 points likely to be made) verses "the first player with a 3-point shot taking it". Most of the points, maybe even all of them, after FSU caught up were 2-point high probability shots.

 

[SGMVols]

I think it’s important to remember Talaysia Cooper sat out all last season and barely played her frosh year.

She had some bad turnovers, but she was literally our go-to (and best defender) in the biggest game of her young career. She’s being asked to do a lot!

We see you, Coop!

I don't think any returning player benefited more from the coaching change than Cooper. Her athleticism would've gone to waste in Kellie's plod ball

 

[volfan102455]

Like I said, I don't mind the fast pace and press - but continuing on a pace where you have one shot at the basket and if you miss it is right back to the other team when the shots are not falling into the basket will get you beat more often than not.