Game Thread: LADY VOLS AT AUBURN

[glv98]

.Our players are scoring in rhythm at will, and then for no apparent reason Harper makes these unusual subs...WHY? I wonder if she has a pre-set sub schedule she goes by....It made no sense, even after watching the replay, why mess with the early success...The players couldn't of been tired.

Yes, I wondered if it was a pre set sub pattern she was determined to stick to. Like the football coach with the first 20 plays stuck on a card in his waistband. But still, WHY? We have struggled so mightly to have any offensive flow, I'd open a vein to stop anyone who wanted to interrupt it. It was five and a half beautiful, elusive, rare minutes. No one could have been tired. How could some pre scheduled plan have been more important? Guess that's why I'm not coach.

 

[Lucy]

Exactly. Of course the advice would not be better. Not one thing of value to be gained by any of them wasting one nanosecond of time on this board. So don't. In addition to the extra study time (to gain 'incites'), perhaps an additional ball handling drill?

I believe there is heartfelt good intent amongst the "defenders" of players who may take heat here, but frankly, its just silly. People inside the program do not belong here. Imagine a player or parent following a group of fans out of the arena after the game as they walk to their car and straining to overhear them discussing what they just watched. And being oh so hurt if their eavesdropping picks up harsh opinions. Registering and logging into a fan board is no different.

Do not go fishing for insults, you will surely catch them. It's why most players do not, and should not, use public social media in season. Focus on what's actually important. What you came here to do is important. What we say about it is not.

A bit more disturbing to me is the rampant over personalization and over dramatization of all this. We are not "haters", that's absurd. I don't know these people, nor do I pretend to nor want to. It gets a little creepy when folks set players up as victims and themselves as the great rescuers. A little too much involvement, real or imagined, for my comfort into the players' off court lives.

First, shame on me for not rechecking. I am not inciting riots, instead talking about insights in player coaching. Lazy of me.
Second, how is being po’d about adults calling young women garbage and trash and low IQ on any forum creepy? Those of us who find this unacceptable don’t consider ourselves “great rescuers”, I think we are just generally well adjusted adults. So I guess you think being okay with that sort of trash talk about these kids is better? Now that is creepy.

 

[Nute Gunray]

This debate over whether KJH has had a good or bad year is interesting. One thing I find encouraging...which I don't see much talk about (maybe I missed it) is the current state of Missouri State women's basketball. That team is 24-4 now...just broke Bradley's 18 game home winning streak last night..and is currently ranked as high as 17 in the country. Was it Kellie's recruiting that explains that for the most part? Mo State is not some traditional monster program...but they are well set right now...so at the least we know Kellie didn't leave the program in shambles...but rather in a tremendous spot. How much does Kellie get credit for that? Seems that's a good sign if she could do THAT for Mo State... what might she do for an SEC program like UT. Or...do we look at it like "look what Mo. State is doing now that Kellie is gone"?

I believe that you can attribute the MO State current success to slightly better coaching (so far) by the new coach and good recruiting by Kellie. Kellie recruited well and coached fairly well. Her total won-lost percentage at MO State was around 60 percent, She had the same total won-lost percentage at Western Carolina. I believe that Kellie could benefit by studying some of the coaching techniques of the new MO State coach. After all, she is benefiting from Kellie's recruits, so it would be equal compensation if Kellie could benefit from some of the new coach's methods.

 

[Nute Gunray]

IMO Kellie deserves a positive shout-out and full credit for having signed the tough-minded, coachable athletes that Coach Mox inherited, and then at least SOME credit for how they continued their momentum from last year to this year.

But I have to say, Coach Mox deserves the most credit for having managed to significantly improve that team in her first season. Yes, the strong foundation was already in place (unlike the situation Kellie inherited from Holly), but the MoSt players still had to trust Mox and buy into her system. She must be a fantastic manager/motivator, because they sure are having a heckuva season.

Very well said!

 

[glv98]

First, shame on me for not rechecking. I am not inciting riots, instead talking about insights in player coaching. Lazy of me.
Second, how is being po’d about adults calling young women garbage and trash and low IQ on any forum creepy? Those of us who find this unacceptable don’t consider ourselves “great rescuers”, I think we are just generally well adjusted adults. So I guess you think being okay with that sort of trash talk about these kids is better? Now that is creepy.

Of course use of overly harsh, base, dumbass terms is stupid and unnecessary. I've argued several times against the use of "bball IQ" But I'm pretty sure they mean as players, not people. When we blur the lines and personalize it the less grounded among us do things like try to make actual contact, imagine they're sending secret signals from the stands, and yes, are knights in shining amour riding to the rescue. And that is creepy.

I think we agreed the notion anyone actually involved in the program would look to this site for coaching tips is ridiculous and comically over inflates the influence and importance of what goes on here. IMO, personalizing rhetoric to the point we think it actually effects recruiting, transfer decisions, etc is equally overblown.

We are a teensy, tiny sliver of the "fanbase", a couple of dozen talking to each other. If any player is so misguided as to seek us out (and I've known several, they don't) it probably speaks to a lack of focus and priorities that may underlie their oncourt problems that started all this.

But I'll end by repeating that I think for MOST who call this out come from a good-hearted place.

 

[stllvf]

GLV98 - I could using your and others response, paraphrase and state in all "good-hearted words" I call a spade a spade and your and others like you (note not like me) and strongly disagree with your justification while again still being good hearted. We follow the lady vols because we support the women on the court and if possible other ways. Do you believe your recent post , because you believe no player OR Parents of a playerwill be offended because she will never read any of the "harsh, base, dumbass comments " is sufficient reason to continue an offensive process? Lack of civility is BTW not just on this board it is becoming a justifification for communication for many.
please note written with a good heart.

 

[Coach Jumper]

GLV98 - I could using your and others response, paraphrase and state in all "good-hearted words" I call a spade a spade and your and others like you (note not like me) and strongly disagree with your justification while again still being good hearted. We follow the lady vols because we support the women on the court and if possible other ways. Do you believe your recent post , because you believe no player OR Parents of a playerwill be offended because she will never read any of the "harsh, base, dumbass comments " is sufficient reason to continue an offensive process? Lack of civility is BTW not just on this board it is becoming a justifification for communication for many.
please note written with a good heart.

Well said. And appreciated.

 

[creekdipper]

I believe that you can attribute the MO State current success to slightly better coaching (so far) by the new coach and good recruiting by Kellie. Kellie recruited well and coached fairly well. Her total won-lost percentage at MO State was around 60 percent, She had the same total won-lost percentage at Western Carolina. I believe that Kellie could benefit by studying some of the coaching techniques of the new MO State coach. After all, she is benefiting from Kellie's recruits, so it would be equal compensation if Kellie could benefit from some of the new coach's methods.

If you don't mind, would you elaborate on what Mox has done differently?

 

[Hoosier]

ou can attribute the MO State current success to slightly better coaching (so far) by the new coach

maybe, but I heard her say on an interview that she didn't have to do anything because the team was already united and dedicated to winning ---- as far as playing better, I have watched a lot of MoSt games this year and last and can detect no discernible difference aside from the normal maturation process which enhances consistency --- let's see if the new coach can get them to the Sweet 16 or beyond before downplaying Kellie's achievement, okay?

 

[VolBall09]

maybe, but I heard her say on an interview that she didn't have to do anything because the team was already united and dedicated to winning ---- as far as playing better, I have watched a lot of MoSt games this year and last and can detect no discernible difference aside from the normal maturation process which enhances consistency --- let's see if the new coach can get them to the Sweet 16 or beyond before downplaying Kellie's achievement, okay?

I agree, their offensive numbers are slightly better due to improved chemistry. Their defensive numbers are actually down from last year though.

 

[Vols45]

The sophomores and juniors are carrying the MSU team to the top of the Valley. Shooting has cooled off in the last month and the defense isn't as good as last year. The team has more confidence which gets them through tough times. Coach Mox has taken a good group of core players, make some minor adjustments and didn't try to fix what wasn't broken.

 

[Nute Gunray]

If you don't mind, would you elaborate on what Mox has done differently?

24-4 won-loss record, ranked no. 21 in Coaches poll.

 

[creekdipper]

24-4 won-loss record, ranked no. 21 in Coaches poll.

Well, thanks...I guess.

Now I understand much better those "coaching techniques" that Kellie should pick up from Mox.

Win more games. You'd have thought Kellie would have picked up on that from studying Dawn Staley. But at least we now know the secret recipe to the special sauce.

 

[NeedOrange]

Coach Mox did not have the time to provide the team with the fundamental skills and BBIQ required to win at their current level. Neither did she create an environment of winning. Neither did she recruit the players.

Can I point out my own UConn men's team where Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his first year, then proceeded to prove to be an inept head coach. One year is inadequate to determine the quality of a coach in any system. (I'll save you the time of posting that you don't give a flying flip about UConn, but if you don't learn from similar situations you are dooming yourself to learning lessons the hard way.)

From what I have seen, KJH has done a great job in resurrecting LV basketball. One thing I learned watching the UConn men is that the first thing that needs to change is the culture. Those of you who are criticizing KJH are very premature in voicing those opinions and will retract them later if you have the courage. It is very easy to be a negative critic anyone can do it. If you truly care about LV basketball getting back where it belongs, I urge you to help KJH change the environment by being positive and stop casting premature negative seeds.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Coach Mox did not have the time to provide the team with the fundamental skills and BBIQ required to win at their current level. Neither did she create an environment of winning. Neither did she recruit the players.

Can I point out my own UConn men's team where Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his first year, then proceeded to prove to be an inept head coach. One year is inadequate to determine the quality of a coach in any system. (I'll save you the time of posting that you don't give a flying flip about UConn, but if you don't learn from similar situations you are dooming yourself to learning lessons the hard way.)

From what I have seen, KJH has done a great job in resurrecting LV basketball. One thing I learned watching the UConn men is that the first thing that needs to change is the culture. Those of you who are criticizing KJH are very premature in voicing those opinions and will retract them later if you have the courage. It is very easy to be a negative critic anyone can do it. If you truly care about LV basketball getting back where it belongs, I urge you to help KJH change the environment by being positive and stop casting premature negative seeds.

NeedOrange, if Coach Kellie has done a great job of resurrecting LV basketball. then I shudder to see her less than great job. I think you should look at Wes Moore's first and succeeding years at NC State before you said that the MO State coach has not and will not make a difference. Both coaches won with Kellie's recruits because their coaching made a difference. I am not a downer on Coach Kellie. However, I believe strongly that she needs to make some adjustments in her coaching philosophy. She is a good recruiter and can become a good coach.

 

[NeedOrange]

NeedOrange, if Coach Kellie has done a great job of resurrecting LV basketball. then I shudder to see her less than great job. I think you should look at Wes Moore's first and succeeding years at NC State before you said that the MO State coach has not and will not make a difference. Both coaches won with Kellie's recruits because their coaching made a difference. I am not a downer on Coach Kellie. However, I believe strongly that she needs to make some adjustments in her coaching philosophy. She is a good recruiter and can become a good coach.

I expect we'll see those adjustments next year. The players will have bought into her system at the beginning of the year and will be more coachable. What I expect to see is a year where all the victories are expected, very few (if any) upset losses, and some excruciating losses late to good teams as the team learns how to win. Next year is a transition year. By year 3, with a good freshman class, you will have an idea of what the future holds. I'm expecting a solid ranking in the 12-18 range.

 

[VolBall09]

Coach Mox did not have the time to provide the team with the fundamental skills and BBIQ required to win at their current level. Neither did she create an environment of winning. Neither did she recruit the players.

Can I point out my own UConn men's team where Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his first year, then proceeded to prove to be an inept head coach. One year is inadequate to determine the quality of a coach in any system. (I'll save you the time of posting that you don't give a flying flip about UConn, but if you don't learn from similar situations you are dooming yourself to learning lessons the hard way.)

From what I have seen, KJH has done a great job in resurrecting LV basketball. One thing I learned watching the UConn men is that the first thing that needs to change is the culture. Those of you who are criticizing KJH are very premature in voicing those opinions and will retract them later if you have the courage. It is very easy to be a negative critic anyone can do it. If you truly care about LV basketball getting back where it belongs, I urge you to help KJH change the environment by being positive and stop casting premature negative seeds.

Nice post, I do agree with you. I definitely play by the three year rule. By the end of that year you should have a pretty good idea what’s going to happen under the new coach. Everything before that is pretty much a wash.

I’ve said this before on here and caught some heat, but being a head coach is so much more than the Wins and Losses. Especially in the first season. The intangibles are much more important. If you can build the proper foundation the wins will come.

We did improve drastically on the floor, particularly on the defensive end, and in our effort. The overall positivity and growth from these young ladies has been night and day as well. No more bad body language, or at least far less. Rennia not only behaves like an All-American on the court, but off as well. She has been a great spokeswoman for her team. The change in her personally is proof enough for me that the culture is coming around.