Game Thread: LADY VOLS AT AUBURN

[VOLINVONORE]

That's great! How about the other 39+ minutes? It came down to that last shot because Horston and her teammates turned it over 500 times.



Don't make me get a restraining order...

Ignore button for you is all we need.

 

[Prophet1]

I love Jordan's game , my only wonder is why do she
go sleeveless in the first half and then sport sleeves
In the second?
J25 all the way.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I doubt that.

No really it did

 

[PRG]

We are 6th seed in the tourney therefore we finished 6th.

There is a regular season championship!
There is a SEC Tournament championship!
There is a NCAA Tournament championship!

None of these have anything to do with who is the champions..... However , how you finish the regular season affects your seeding in the SEC tournament! And how well you do in the regular season and SEC tournament affects your seeding in the NCAA tournament!

The SEC tournament has multiple was to determine who is seated where.... And multiple ways to take teams who tie during the regular season and seat them properly!

Tennessee finished the regular season tied for third with three teams ..... How they are seated in the SEC tournament is a completely different matter. JMO

 

[Volfan2012]

Will never be listed that we finished sixth will always be recorded as tied for third. Tennessee tied for third and that is how it will go in the record books. Seedings have nothing to do with how you finish in a league. We won ten just like the other three teams we tied with great season for Tennessee considering the lost players and mostly freshmen and sophomores making up the major players on the team.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I love Jordan's game , my only wonder is why do she
go sleeveless in the first half and then sport sleeves
In the second?
J25 all the way.

I always wondered why people wore things under their jerseys? Is it a comfort thing? Males and females both do it. Maybe it’s a style thing?

 

[Volfan2012]

I like exactly where we are according to Creme's bracket right now as a tenth seed that is the best slot you could hope for. If it turns out that way would be a chance to at least win and be competitive in a couple games.

 

[mutt]

I love Jordan's game , my only wonder is why do she
go sleeveless in the first half and then sport sleeves
In the second?
J25 all the way.

I had a player that would change shoes at halftime if she didn't play as well as she thought she should in the first half.

 

[PRG]

I had a player that would change shoes at halftime if she didn't play as well as she thought she should in the first half.

Most athletes are superstitious..... routines getting dressed , game day routines, warm up routines , tapping ankles , wrist , listening to certain music , etc. etc. It’s really funny but most do it ! JMO

 

[creekdipper]

Will never be listed that we finished sixth will always be recorded as tied for third. Tennessee tied for third and that is how it will go in the record books. Seedings have nothing to do with how you finish in a league. We won ten just like the other two teams we tied with great season for Tennessee considering the lost players and mostly freshmen and sophomores making up the major players on the team.

It's sort of astounding to realize that with only one more win in those winnable games against LSU, KY, A&M, and ARK, we would have finished in sole possession of third place. Win three of those, and we would have been tied with MS State for 2nd place (that proposal was a stretch, but the one more conference win was there for the taking).

On the other hand, it would have seemed a bit unjust to finish ahead of three teams that beat us in the reg. season. And when playing the "what if" or "if only" game, we have to remember that we won over Alabama and Auburn literally within the last second both times. So we could just have easily finished 8-8 as to finish 11-5 or 12-4.

I also keep in mind that we had a somewhat easy conference schedule, that tough 5-game stretch notwithstanding. After all, we only played each of the five teams who finished ahead of us in seeding one time (and they all beat us). The only tough team we played twice was LSU, and the second time was without Mitchell (and we lost that game). The other two-timers were Vandy and Ole Miss. Pretty easy conference draw, if you ask me.

Not trying to downplay what the team did. Reduce turnovers from a horrible mark to just bad, and we have at least two more conference wins and could credibly claim to deserve third place outright. The turnover problem will be fixed during the off-season...Kellie's other teams never had this problem, so "bad coaching" is a ridiculous charge to make. A tougher non-conference schedule will help prepare the team better also for the conference grind.

It would be wonderful, amazing, and fabulous to see the turnover problem disappear in the upcoming tournaments and to see the team play near their potential. Not getting overly hopeful, but the team (coaches and players) are capable of doing that with the right combination of substitutions, common sense, fundamentals, focus and grace under pressure, and caution without being totally passive.

At this point, there really is "no tomorrow" in the tournaments. IMO, Kellie should stick with what's working early on and allow the players to stay on the floor as long as the offense is clicking. If one gets tired or starts making mistakes, then take that player out to rest and sub for that player only. Keep as many of your best on the floor as possible. You have time outs to use, there are stoppages of play, there are ends of quarters (unlike the men), there is a halftime, etc. With the exception of Lou and Tamari, the other starters ought to be in good enough shape to play 40 minutes if necessary, although they could come out for a blow. But I have to agree that wholesale substitutions "just because" isn't working out, especially when you're trading some of the few consistent offensive threats for several role players. That strategy worked pretty well at MO State where the competition was fairly equal, but even then Kellie left her best in as long as possible. And it's lot like we're bringing in defensive specialists who compensate for lack of offense with steals, offensive rebounds, shutdown of star players, etc. Most of the time, any points from several of our reserves who get key minutes have to be considered an unexpected bonus rather than something we can count on. And we end up just maintaining a lead when our opponent hits a cold stretch instead of building a big lead and maintaining momentum.

 

[Chippo]

Well as badly as we played yesterday at least we have a 20-9 record vs last years 19-13. We could actually win a couple of more games. As much griping about turnovers
( myself included) with what KJH had to work
with at least we had a better year. Still a work
in progress for her and the team.

 

[Volfan2012]

It's sort of astounding to realize that with only one more win in those winnable games against LSU, KY, A&M, and ARK, we would have finished in sole possession of third place. Win three of those, and we would have been tied with MS State for 2nd place (that proposal was a stretch, but the one more conference win was there for the taking).

On the other hand, it would have seemed a bit unjust to finish ahead of three teams that beat us in the reg. season. And when playing the "what if" or "if only" game, we have to remember that we won over Alabama and Auburn literally within the last second both times. So we could just have easily finished 8-8 as to finish 11-5 or 12-4.

I also keep in mind that we had a somewhat easy conference schedule, that tough 5-game stretch notwithstanding. After all, we only played each of the five teams who finished ahead of us in seeding one time (and they all beat us). The only tough team we played twice was LSU, and the second time was without Mitchell (and we lost that game). The other two-timers were Vandy and Ole Miss. Pretty easy conference draw, if you ask me.

Not trying to downplay what the team did. Reduce turnovers from a horrible mark to just bad, and we have at least two more conference wins and could credibly claim to deserve third place outright. The turnover problem will be fixed during the off-season...Kellie's other teams never had this problem, so "bad coaching" is a ridiculous charge to make. A tougher non-conference schedule will help prepare the team better also for the conference grind.

It would be wonderful, amazing, and fabulous to see the turnover problem disappear in the upcoming tournaments and to see the team play near their potential. Not getting overly hopeful, but the team (coaches and players) are capable of doing that with the right combination of substitutions, common sense, fundamentals, focus and grace under pressure, and caution without being totally passive.

At this point, there really is "no tomorrow" in the tournaments. IMO, Kellie should stick with what's working early on and allow the players to stay on the floor as long as the offense is clicking. If one gets tired or starts making mistakes, then take that player out to rest and sub for that player only. Keep as many of your best on the floor as possible. You have time outs to use, there are stoppages of play, there are ends of quarters (unlike the men), there is a halftime, etc. With the exception of Lou and Tamari, the other starters ought to be in good enough shape to play 40 minutes if necessary, although they could come out for a blow. But I have to agree that wholesale substitutions "just because" isn't working out, especially when you're trading some of the few consistent offensive threats for several role players. That strategy worked pretty well at MO State where the competition was fairly equal, but even then Kellie left her best in as long as possible. And it's lot like we're bringing in defensive specialists who compensate for lack of offense with steals, offensive rebounds, shutdown of star players, etc. Most of the time, any points from several of our reserves who get key minutes have to be considered an unexpected bonus rather than something we can count on. And we end up just maintaining a lead when our opponent hits a cold stretch instead of building a big lead and maintaining momentum.

We would've won the A&M game at home if we hadn't missed 10 free throws. We could've won at Kentucky if we had a plan to control one player. Arkansas had one player go off on us as well and have a career night. LSU won at home lost on the road that road loss most disappointing game of the season for me. Miss St we did not have Davis certainly wouldn't have lost by 17 if she were in the lineup. Were close to getting there. Need much better point guard play someone that can shoot from perimeter and control the team without turnovers. We need better post play they really were great defensively this season did not offer much offensively. We could've finished as low as 7 and 9 or as high as 13 and 3 just needed better control of the ball and someone to either make some free throws or make a play or two that we didn't. This team has so much growth potential with half the team being freshmen and sophomores. If they all progress and Harper could find an additional player or two to help at positions of need then we'll be in a position to challenge for the title next season. Of course a lot has to happen. Davis has to stay, Burrell, Horston, Key, and Massengill have to turn into consistent reliable players. We have two freshmen coming in and JMO think both are better players than all our bench players meaning Harris, Rennie, McCoy, and Saunders. We get Green back she could be dynamic so next years expectations are going to be a lot higher. We have to win more and be a challenger for the league no reason every player want be tremendously better.

 

[VolBall09]

I must have missed something while watching but can someone explain why Jessie pulled her hands back and let the pass hit her in the chest late in the game? The only reason I can think of is she thought it was going to be tipped.

That was why, she thought it had been tipped and she was about to move laterally to where she thought the ball was going to go. Not a bad assumption given that almost every single pass we threw they got a hand on.

 

[NoBackBoard]

Oh, those “fans” don’t care how their constant bashing of players makes them feel. They just say “they shouldn't care what fans say,” or “if they pay attentionto what strangers on social media say about them then... [blah, blah, blah]”

Well, they DO care because they are kids. But there are people here who would continue their cruel behavior even if someone told them that a certain player is deeply suffering over their comments. They’d just think that was hilarious and keep making their hurtful comments with, “well, if someone is dumb enough to worry over comments on a message board, then good riddance!” This is how cruel and ugly people like Darth_Vol are. I guaranTEE you he’d laugh if he read that his comments caused some kid pain, even if it were extreme.

The truth is not cruel and if a player is choosing to peruse a fan message board I hope they also are paying attention to the countless tips on how to improve their play.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

The truth is not cruel and if a player is choosing to peruse a fan message board I hope they also are paying attention to the countless tips on how to improve their play.

From the posts from her mom and others people have @ her on Twitter. I don’t think she pursued people messaging her

 

[VolBall09]

No if KJH went for the knockout when we had AUB on the ropes we would not be talking about this now. I have watch SC build a big lead on teams and not sub quickly.

That was the momentum killer last night. The subbing in the second quarter has killed our leads all season. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around why she continues to go with that strategy.

I’d much rather keep the big girls in there, even if it means risking a 3rd foul in the first half. Build a 25 point lead and then if one of them fouls out midway through the fourth, who cares? She’s a little too cautious for my liking on that front.

Our first group does tend to get in a good rhythm, then just as soon as our offense is rolling she’ll sub in 3 players who commit 8 turnovers in 3 minutes. We really are only a 6, maybe 7 player deep team.

Sadly I’m still not convinced Harris or McCoy can provide any meaningful minutes against better teams. McCoy really hurt us last night, she gave up several easy buckets under the basket. We were controlling the boards until she entered and then they got several o-boards in a row.

 

[djohnnyg]

This debate over whether KJH has had a good or bad year is interesting. One thing I find encouraging...which I don't see much talk about (maybe I missed it) is the current state of Missouri State women's basketball. That team is 24-4 now...just broke Bradley's 18 game home winning streak last night..and is currently ranked as high as 17 in the country. Was it Kellie's recruiting that explains that for the most part? Mo State is not some traditional monster program...but they are well set right now...so at the least we know Kellie didn't leave the program in shambles...but rather in a tremendous spot. How much does Kellie get credit for that? Seems that's a good sign if she could do THAT for Mo State... what might she do for an SEC program like UT. Or...do we look at it like "look what Mo. State is doing now that Kellie is gone"?

 

[VolBall09]

not many of y’all probably have instagram but jordan started that she’s over all you “fans” hating on her and her messages are always open for the ones who wanna talk to her about the way she plays. she’s literally a kid and you all literally go after her. we’re blessed to have her as a lady vol. you better hope she don’t leave like westbrook did, when she got tired of the fan base. some “fans” can really break a girl.

I do think the moderators of this board should police people who make the same negative comments about players over and over.

To me, it’s fine to point out errors as they happen in the game. That’s part of being a basketball fan. But the posters that come on here just to create entire new threads to bash her over the turnovers aren’t helping the problem.

She still has incredible assist numbers and without her we are probably a sub .500 team on the season. Unfortunately she’s had to be a freshman and make freshman mistakes in big games because we had to play her. She didn’t have the luxury of playing behind an All-American PG like Cooke.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I do think the moderators I’d this board should police people who make the same negative comments about players over and over.

To me, it’s fine to point out errors as they happen in the game. That’s part of being a basketball fan. But the posters that come on here just to create entire new threads to bash her over the turnovers aren’t helping the problem.

She still has incredible assist numbers and without her we are probably a sub .500 team on the season. Unfortunately she’s had to be a freshman and make freshman mistakes in big games because we had to play her. She didn’t have the luxury of playing behind an All-American PG like Cooke.

Another way of looking at it is she chose UT! To come here and make her mark and help restore the program. She chose not to play behind an all American which I am very thankful she chose her own path. Cooke actually has the luxury of two high school all Americans in both Harris and Henderson.

 

[volforlife10]

The truth is not cruel and if a player is choosing to peruse a fan message board I hope they also are paying attention to the countless tips on how to improve their play.

and you’re a reason people don’t wanna come to tn. u find no positives, only negatives. no girl wants to come to a school that has a fan base that will go off over every little thing. a win is a win, but somehow people find a way to literally not credit the girls on that win, but instead tear them down.

 

[VolBall09]

Another way of looking at it is she chose UT! To come here and make her mark and help restore the program. She chose not to play behind an all American which I am very thankful she chose her own path. Cooke actually has the luxury of two high school all Americans in both Harris and Henderson.

I agree, remember that at the time she chose UT she was likely playing behind a potential All-American in Westbrook. The situation when this class signed was much different. We weren’t expecting to have to play her at PG at all unless it was situational.

 

[PG1]

There is a regular season championship!
There is a SEC Tournament championship!
There is a NCAA Tournament championship!

None of these have anything to do with who is the champions..... However , how you finish the regular season affects your seeding in the SEC tournament! And how well you do in the regular season and SEC tournament affects your seeding in the NCAA tournament!

The SEC tournament has multiple was to determine who is seated where.... And multiple ways to take teams who tie during the regular season and seat them properly!

Tennessee finished the regular season tied for third with three teams ..... How they are seated in the SEC tournament is a completely different matter. JMO

Only a tie by record who you beat or who beat you is where seeding comes in. We finished 6th which is still good. As far as I know they did not give out 3rd place trophies to everyone.

 

[Hoosier]

How much does Kellie get credit for that [that being MoSt success this year]?

Kellie gets ALL the credit --- she only had one senior for that Sweet 16 run last year, so all the players returned plus a couple of frosh Kellie recruited

 

[creekdipper]

Only a tie by record who you beat or who beat you is where seeding comes in. We finished 6th which is still good. As far as I know they did not give out 3rd place trophies to everyone.

I think we were picked to finish 6th with Zaay Green, so to finish there without her (and to come within a whisper of finishing in third place with no tie) is pretty good. I'd say the odds are pretty good that we'd have picked up another couple of conference wins and beaten Texas to finish reg. season at 23-7 and 12-4 conference in third place. And most except the most hardened naysayers would have been singing Kellie's praises.

Still, injuries are part of the game, as Kentucky and A&M found out when they had to do without Howard and Carter for a stretch.

 

[VolBall09]

Kellie gets ALL the credit --- she only had one senior for that Sweet 16 run last year, so all the players returned plus a couple of frosh Kellie recruited

I agree. There has been a poster on here who at times was giving a lot of the credit to Coach Mox. She seems like a decent coach, but you can’t give her someone else’s eggs to count.

I always take a coach’s first season with a program with a grain of salt. Whether it’s really positive or really negative. Those players and the culture are inherited. Lots of people over the years have been the benefactor of a coach on the rise taking a better job and having a good situation land in their lap. They will generally maintain two pretty good seasons and then in the third season you’ll see what’s really up.

Kellie inherited a mess at UT and coach Mox inherited a blessing at MO. State. How often do young coaches get to step in and coach an intact Sweet 16 team? Not often.