Game Thread Lady Vols at the JUNKANOO JAM

#126
#126
There were several unacceptable things today. Near the top of the list were our missed layups and lousy man-to-man defense. CHW let them play and will hopefully gain some useful information about lineups. Also near the top of the list was the slick finish on that gym floor. Teams will be lucky to make it out of there without injuries.
 
#127
#127
From the box score, it looks like Westbrook didn’t start the game. Zay started in her place.....anyone have any info on that.

Maybe Holly was trying to send a message?!?!

Westbrook did have the most turnovers of everyone with 6.
 
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#128
#128
CannonVol80 said:
That would be on Saturday.

I just saw the score on UAB and OK. I want to look at the box score. I just looked at the Tenn-Clemson box score and must admit I was a little surprised. Listening to Mickey's broadcast was somewhat excruciating and I had a more negative view of the game. Looking at the box score, it appears that the Lady Vols actually had a relatively decent offensive output! Scoring was, again (and against better competition), balanced. Although I would like to see the field goal percentage around the 48-49% range, 44.1% is not terrible, by any means. In addition, the 3-pt percentage was decent and we got above 70% on free throw percentage for the first time this season.

Turnovers continue to plague the Lady Vols. 19 turnovers against a team like Clemson is simply, in my opinion, unacceptable. For those who said the 21 turnovers against Florida A&M wasn't a real worry because it was just a product of the team having such a large lead and not having to worry about ball discipline, I think this game should be a wake up call. If the turnovers today had been a more respectable 10-12 (like they should be every game, in my opinion), the Lady Vols would have won this game by the 20-30 points that they should have. Good ball discipline isn't something a team/player can turn on against the better teams. If one does not practice/exercise it against the lesser teams on the schedule, it simply won't be there against the better teams. 19 turnovers against the team that just beat Clemson by 8 points more than the Lady Vols did could result in the fifth straight loss to Alabama and that would be truly unacceptable!

Jim
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Really a tale of two halves ... we had 11 turnovers the first half and 8 in the second. We shot 12 of 36 in the first half for 33% . Not only was that bad but so many easy shots missed right at the rim??????

We shot better in the second making 18 of 32 for 56%.... a lot better

We should have beaten this team 7 to 10 points every quarter but we waited to settle down the last quarter and play under control. It looks like the Freshmen are going to contribute in many ways.... Mistakes will be made as they get their experiences in playing college ball! Hopefully they are fast learners and get the ship righted before SEC play. Going to be interesting!
 
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#131
#131
Maybe part of the problem here is that it’s time to stop forcing the old tired way so much. Have not been able to see much Lady Vol ball at all this season but I see both Cheridene and KK are starting. Seems to me if you’re loaded with talent at all positions but the big Moosey post positions, why continue to play boring, has-been ball where they stand around and feed the post? Move Davis to the 4 and Meme to the 3. Let Greene and KK share the Minutes at the 5. I was so happy with the departing of MR and the lack of bodies to fill her spot. Thought for sure this team would be forced to evolve. But here we go again. Clog the lane with2 big bodies so that they actually help some crappy Zone defense. Then we will get to watch Holly complain that she doesn’t get how it’s not working when the players stand around. What the heck are they supposed to do? Clear them out, get some mobile players in. Pass-and-cut it’s not that hard if you’ve got players that can move.
 
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#132
#132
Texas said:
Move Davis to the 4 and Meme to the 3. Let Greene and KK share the Minutes at the 5. I was so happy with the departing of MR and the lack of bodies to fill her spot. Thought for sure this team would be forced to evolve. But here we go again. Clog the lane with2 big bodies so that they actually help some crappy Zone defense. Then we will get to watch Holly complain that she doesn’t get how it’s not working when the players stand around. What the heck are they supposed to do? Clear them out, get some mobile players in. Pass-and-cut it’s not that hard if you’ve got players that can move.
Click to expand...

I like your thinking.
 
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#133
#133
While you didn't explain who you would put in in place of one of the bigs, it doesn't follow that, just because Cheridene and Kasi are starting, the "old tired way" is forced. My personal opinion is that Cheridene and Kasi have started to take advantage of the lack of height in the Lady Vols first four opponents. If you look at the box scores, you will see that the scoring has been balanced in each of the contests, so far. The only game where I've seen an effort to force the ball inside was the Florida A&M game. That occurred in the 4th quarter when we were so far ahead and was mostly the freshmen trying to show off their athletic skills (and it resulted in a significant number of turnovers).

If there is one good thing that can be said about the offense this early in the season, it is that "force the ball inside at all costs" has not been part of the game plan. Personally, I think that there is still too little movement in the offensive sets in the half court, but that may be a function of having a very young team and not trying to overload the freshmen while they are acclimating to the college game.

Jim
 
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#134
#134
CannonVol80 said:
While you didn't explain who you would put in in place of one of the bigs, it doesn't follow that, just because Cheridene and Kasi are starting, the "old tired way" is forced. My personal opinion is that Cheridene and Kasi have started to take advantage of the lack of height in the Lady Vols first four opponents. If you look at the box scores, you will see that the scoring has been balanced in each of the contests, so far. The only game where I've seen an effort to force the ball inside was the Florida A&M game. That occurred in the 4th quarter when we were so far ahead and was mostly the freshmen trying to show off their athletic skills (and it resulted in a significant number of turnovers).

If there is one good thing that can be said about the offense this early in the season, it is that "force the ball inside at all costs" has not been part of the game plan. Personally, I think that there is still too little movement in the offensive sets in the half court, but that may be a function of having a very young team and not trying to overload the freshmen while they are acclimating to the college game.

Jim
Click to expand...

Again, I’ve gotten to see very little, And it is a guess, but I figure someone on the team can likely score more, facilitate more, move more on defense then KK does. I don’t see her as the Steph Dolson type that is range-y and dragging the 5 out to force the defense to do more than sit back locked up mollusk tight in a 2-3 zone. But hopefully soon I will get to see some Vol ball and be pleasantly surprised.
 
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#136
#136
Texas said:
Again, I’ve gotten to see very little, And it is a guess, but I figure someone on the team can likely score more, facilitate more, move more on defense then KK does. I don’t see her as the Steph Dolson type that is range-y and dragging the 5 out to force the defense to do more than sit back locked up mollusk tight in a 2-3 zone. But hopefully soon I will get to see some Vol ball and be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

This year there has been more of C. Green at the high post and couple of times she has flashed to the foul line to hit the high post jumper. I agree Davis would be more effective there but the “4” player isn’t always trying to post up. Actually KK and green have been interchanging who has the high post entry past also clearing the land for cuts from the perimeter players. This is how Davis has been getting free off cuts and drivers to the basket, Westbrook (although she has missed a TON of layups has had str8 lanes to the basket as well). I would like to see Meme drive a little more along with Z. Green. Rae is just a ball of energy and she will drive, shoot, or just plain go grab O boards OVER her teammates.
 
#137
#137
The bad news is we can't defend guards in the man to man defense. Both of Clemson guards had their best games of the season and shot almost 60 percent as a pair. More coming with UAB think we may need to start and end with the zone.
Good news when we needed to find a way to win we found another gear to get it done. Hopefully this team will continue to do that this season.
 
#138
#138
Volfan2012 said:
The bad news is we can't defend guards in the man to man defense. Both of Clemson guards had their best games of the season and shot almost 60 percent as a pair. More coming with UAB think we may need to start and end with the zone.
Good news when we needed to find a way to win we found another gear to get it done. Hopefully this team will continue to do that this season.
Click to expand...
Agreed, start with the zone. Back to the perimeter defense, is the main problem lack of fundamentals?
 
#140
#140
Texas said:
Again, I’ve gotten to see very little, And it is a guess, but I figure someone on the team can likely score more, facilitate more, move more on defense then KK does. I don’t see her as the Steph Dolson type that is range-y and dragging the 5 out to force the defense to do more than sit back locked up mollusk tight in a 2-3 zone. But hopefully soon I will get to see some Vol ball and be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

Then why don’t you watch more games before you offer an enlightened opinion.
 
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#141
#141
vol-un-tear said:
Criticizing coaching is legit.
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If you can criticize coaching it is also ok to critique players.... as a whole the players have needed to improve on free throw shooting (that’s a fair critique)... 6 turnovers is too many for a point guard (that’s fair).... there can be positive critiques like saying KK had one of her most productive games as a LV going forward that 6’4” Clemson player has been active in her games and if KK held her in check that was probably a difference in the game. Also, it’s a fair critique to say if Meme and Evina are open on the perimeter right now GET THEM THE BALL!

Now this is all based on viewing them more than once of course. I can see improvements in certain facets of the game (I still think the ball movement can be better but it seems improved) but I also have viewed more than one game.
 
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#142
#142
mike099 said:
Agreed, start with the zone. Back to the perimeter defense, is the main problem lack of fundamentals?
Click to expand...
Smaller guard penetration beat off the dribble our guards 5 to 7 inches taller improper rotation of the bigs usually occupied with their man means layup easy shot. Zone face to face with the opponent bigs can react to teammate being beat off the dribble. Been a long time and not since Holly has been coach that we have been efficient in the man to man. The zone saved the game yesterday Clemson forced to take outside shots make tough passes resulted in misses and turnovers. We won by the zone which has also killed our offense so many times in the past few years when other teams use it against us. We'll see it again tomorrow and suspect every game we play this season. No reason against most teams we shouldn't return the favor.
 
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#143
#143
I think Holly going to the zone saved the game. If we had stayed man to man suspect we lose or eek out a win depending on how our offense played. Our offense was energized by the zone. Zone takes less energy to play and can result in just as many turnovers as man to man. The big problem with the zone is giving up offensive rebounds much easier to rebound out of the man to man.
 
#144
#144
I have been watching the games, and I haven't seen a single Tenn player look effective in the man-to-man yet. No one has been able to consistently keep their man in front of them, and any opponent who's faster than a tortoise has been able to blow by us at will, resulting in either Tenn reach-in fouls or a good shooting opportunity. It pains me that Westbrook and Davis are even worse than the freshmen in this regard.
 
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#145
#145
With the freedom of motion rule being in effect, I see why most teams play the zone. The zone avoids fouls.

It’s not like back in the day where an occasional handcheck would keep the dribbler in front of you without it being called a foul....coupled with the elimination of the 1 and 1....Zone would be the best bet for most teams.
 
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#146
#146
I wish we played zone all the time teams really have to work to get an open shot and it really cuts down on layups. The man is great if you have defenders that can force their player into turnovers. We can do that against the less talented teams but haven't been successful against quicker more talented guards.
If we win against UAB will be number 1320 all time in Lady Vol History. The team in second place is Louisiana Tech 1092 wins. They will have to have a great season to prevent UConn 1082 wins from passing them into second place.
 
#150
#150
Orange Maniac said:
Now we have people critiquing and criticizing coaching and players that haven't even watched. Brilliant!!
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I believe the poster said that he/she has "gotten to see very little," which is different (obviously) than not having watched them at all. And really, sometimes having a fresh pair of eyes on a team can be helpful because so often a person's first impression is accurate.

I don't know if this poster is right or not, but after having watched four games I am in agreement that Kasi might be better as someone who spells Cheridene -- at least until she learns how to move better. If our posts didn't absolutely dominate in the first four games when Tennessee played (for the most part) opponents who were quite a bit smaller than anyone in orange, then I think that says that our post play is likely lagging a bit. I'm a little worried about it.

To my eye, our half-court offense still feels much the same it has the last several years when Tennessee easily beat RPI 300-type early in the season. The truth of any progress/changes made in the offseason will be when the Lady Vols play a good team. If there's a lot of standing around for 20 seconds, then a sudden burst of confusion and desperation ending in hurried, off-balance shots or turnovers, then we'll know. We just haven't played anybody yet.
 
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