Game Thread Lady Vols Missouri

[PointGuard]

I agree. Since you brought up UCONN, does anyone think one of the teams UCONN beat so far this year have improved enough to beat them in a rematch?

In this case, IMO, team improvement is a double edged sword. The really good (aka well coached teams with good player development track records) do improve over the season. Yet, it also seems like no team improves over the course of a season as much as UConn does...... a tribute to their player development skills.

Someone has to get at least 2 of UConn's 5 starters on the bench with foul trouble for long stretches to have a chance to beat UConn IMO. All 5 starters can drop 20+ on a given night. But, if Williams and Collier (the two most prone to fouling) are in the bench and the 3's aren't falling, UConn will have a very tough game with only two contributors coming off the bench.

But then again, didn't that model play out in their MD game with the added plus of Samuelson barfing her guts out and they still won by 7 after being up close to 20 in the 3rd quarter?

Ya' make not like it but UConn is the team to beat. Next year it gets tougher to beat them with their two transfers learning their system this year. And that doesn't count their incoming recruits who don't garner the praise of the Lady Vols top class but they aren't exactly under-performers either.

The bottom line is it's time for the coaching staffs of all the other top teams to get er done

 

[maxvolfan]

I hear you and not taking anything away from Uconn dynasty and quest for 100. I was just wondering how good they would be if they were to play in a conference where they are at least challenged by 40% of the teams in that conference. Not saying they still wouldn't dominant but at least they would be playing teams with a little more talent level. Again best team, best coach, even hardest schedule. Worst Conference.

 

[NoBackBoard]

Nashville Tennessean paper today: Blackmans Dangerfield looks for consistency at Uconn.
"The issue dogging Dangerfield and drawing the ire of the coaches has been her inconsistent effort at both ends of the floor."
Auriemma said:"She doesn't work hard at it, plain and simple. Crystal is used to doing it a certain way that allowed her to get away with a lot of that stuff in high school, and she's finding out that doesn't work necessarily in college. If Crystal worked as hard as Kia Nurse, she would be first team All American. But she doesn't. So she's not."
Crystal says:" There are possession that I work hard, but it's just consistency. I do believe I have it in me. I just have to find it, and it's going to take time, but eventually it's got to come or I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY!"
In the pressers both players and Holly mention inconsistent play as a problem! There's your main difference between Holly and Aremmia! Holly accepts this type of playing and Geno will not let his girls play that way!!!!!!!!!!

AGREE! Holly coddles players and the best coaches challenge even "superstars" to play their best. With that said, Diamond, Nared and Russell have all elevated their play this season and are becoming more consistent.

 

[maxvolfan]

If she sits a inconsistent player on the bench, who is she going to replace her with? Geno can afford to sit his player if need be. He has the players to do so.

 

[PointGuard]

I hear you and not taking anything away from Uconn dynasty and quest for 100. I was just wondering how good they would be if they were to play in a conference where they are at least challenged by 40% of the teams in that conference. Not saying they still wouldn't dominant but at least they would be playing teams with a little more talent level. Again best team, best coach, even hardest schedule. Worst Conference.

Take the top team out of any conference and substitute UConn in that conference. Please tell me what UConn's w-l record would this season in your opinion.

 

[maxvolfan]

I know people don't like it but if the LV are to stay elite and continue to get recruits we have to start playing Uconn again to get national attention. The Wcbb world needs this rivalry too imo. We all love Pat and the moral things she stood for but for the good of the program and the wcbb world I think it's time to move on.

 

[maxvolfan]

Ok im pro SEC so let's put them there. Given their current schedule substituted by the SEC I would put them at maybe one lose having to play either SC or Miss St twice. Maybe even a UT on a night where they have played two tough teams days before. Sure they still might be undefeated in the SEC but seriously, there's no one in their conference that can beat even Vandy right now.

 

[PRG]

If she sits a inconsistent player on the bench, who is she going to replace her with? Geno can afford to sit his player if need be. He has the players to do so.

Agree with your synopsis. However, WHO created this situation?🤔

 

[NoBackBoard]

I know people don't like it but if the LV are to stay elite and continue to get recruits we have to start playing Uconn again to get national attention. The Wcbb world needs this rivalry too imo. We all love Pat and the moral things she stood for but for the good of the program and the wcbb world I think it's time to move on.

But we just got the No. 1 class w/o playing UConn. We need to worry about beating teams like Maryland, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. Those are the teams preventing us from making the FF.

 

[xanamanax]

Nashville Tennessean paper today: Blackmans Dangerfield looks for consistency at Uconn.
"The issue dogging Dangerfield and drawing the ire of the coaches has been her inconsistent effort at both ends of the floor."
Auriemma said:"She doesn't work hard at it, plain and simple. Crystal is used to doing it a certain way that allowed her to get away with a lot of that stuff in high school, and she's finding out that doesn't work necessarily in college. If Crystal worked as hard as Kia Nurse, she would be first team All American. But she doesn't. So she's not."
Crystal says:" There are possession that I work hard, but it's just consistency. I do believe I have it in me. I just have to find it, and it's going to take time, but eventually it's got to come or I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY!"
In the pressers both players and Holly mention inconsistent play as a problem! There's your main difference between Holly and Aremmia! Holly accepts this type of playing and Geno will not let his girls play that way!!!!!!!!!!

If Geno is still playing Dangerfield even though she's inconsistent in how hard she works, how does this show that he will not let his girls play that way?

 

[Nuyoika]

Everyone fan wants their team to win a NC especially when for a long time it was what you were use to at least being in the hunt for annually. It's not like even when Pat was coaching she didn't have an 8 year drought between rings (98' & then not again til 07'). It has to be baby steps. They have a "newish" HC at Tennessee (I get it she coached under Pat for a bazillion years yada yada yada). Even still this is a different more demanding job than she had before.

I can't imagine there is any discussion about beating anyone in particular right now. As inconsistent as this team is the furthest out they should be thinking is the next bounce of the ball, pass, or shot. Period. They have to take it as it comes one possession at a time. At least half of their losses they have beaten themselves. They need to focus on themselves and not about the distraction of a "rivalry" which causes you to think more about the opponent.

I don't even think of UConn and Tennessee as rivals anymore. Maybe from a fan perspective (and you would have to have been a fan of WCBB for a looooooooong time for that to even be the case) but certainly not from a player perspective. The last time the teams played the current players on the teams were in what elementary school? When it was an active rivalry it was cool but that time is gone and you can't get it back. Rivalries aren't spurred on by fans (at least not in WCBB, football yes) or even the results(there are rivalries where one team rarely or almost never beats the other) often times it's mainly carried on by players with mutual dislike for each other. I don't think either teams players have any interest in what the others are doing. Rivalries happen naturally, you can't force them.

 

[madtownvol]

AGREE! Holly coddles players and the best coaches challenge even "superstars" to play their best. With that said, Diamond, Nared and Russell have all elevated their play this season and are becoming more consistent.

I am curious how do you know that Holly does not challenge her players (though perhaps in a way that is less combative than Geno)?

Given that our big 3 have upped their game, perhaps Holly's approach is in fact effective.

The problem with using Geno as an exemplar is that he is such an outlier. Uconn has been dominating everyone for a quite a while. I am not at all convinced that he is in fact more demanding than say, Mulkey or Tara van de Veer, or Brenda Freise, or Viv Stringer (the icon of a disciplinarian coach, after CPS), or any other coach who is consistently in the top 10.

What separates Geno from the rest is that he and his staff/scouts have a great eye for talent and more specifically, finding talented players whose skills blend together and fit his system. He is obviously a good X and O coach and his recruiting acumen gives him a deep bench with lots of options (Something Holly could have next year if, though I doubt this will happen, Diamond and Mercedes return for a 5th year).

But, he starts with a better mix of players (and he deserves credit for that) which gives him edge on his competition.

As a comparison point, the CPS stare was incredibly effective and the oft noted "KEY" to her championship runs when she just happened to have a Holdsclaw or Parker, each with strong supporting casts. Funny though, when she did not have that elite game changing player, the stare just did not generate championships.

 

[Nuyoika]

Ok im pro SEC so let's put them there. Given their current schedule substituted by the SEC I would put them at maybe one lose having to play either SC or Miss St twice. Maybe even a UT on a night where they have played two tough teams days before. Sure they still might be undefeated in the SEC but seriously, there's no one in their conference that can beat even Vandy right now.

Here are the results from last years SEC/AAC Challenge:

Fri 11/13/15 - Florida 91 Temple 97 AAC WIN
Mon 11/23/15 - Tulsa 74 Arkansas 67 AAC WIN
Mon 11/23/15 - Tulane 67 Louisiana State 63 AAC WIN
Sat 12/05/15 - East Carolina 69 at Auburn 83 SEC WIN
Mon 12/07/15 - Southern Methodist 55 at Texas A&M 67 SEC WIN
Wed 12/16/15 - Tulane 61 at Ole Miss 59 AAC WIN
Sun 12/20/15 - East Carolina 57 at South Carolina 88 SEC WIN
Mon 12/21/15 - Mississippi State 72 at Southern Methodist 70 SEC WIN
Mon 12/21/15 - Louisiana State 40 at Connecticut 86 AAC WIN
Wed 12/23/15 - Cincinnati 42 at Georgia 60 SEC WIN
Wed 12/30/15 - South Florida 58 at Mississippi State 68 SEC WIN
Wed 12/30/15 - Central Florida 79 at Florida 93 SEC WIN
Mon 02/08/16 - Connecticut 66 at South Carolina 54 AAC WIN


7 SEC Wins- Avg. MOV = 14 Points

6 AAC Wins- Avg. MOV = 13 Point

From what the analysts say the SEC is weaker this year as a whole than last year and the bottom half of the AAC is stronger than last year. I get it though. Certainly not trying to change your mind just trying to provide a little data. I'm aware of where the AAC stands.

 

[maxvolfan]

Good stat line but... 2 of those losses were to Uconn and the other SEC teams, LSU, Ark, and FL has been at the bottom of the conference for quite some time now. Imo everyone of the AAC teams Except Uconn would be a .500 teams in any conference. Oh and four starters on the Uconn team is averaging under 30mins a game in conference play. Only Chong has more. Like I said that doesn't mean there's a weakness. But they has to watch out for a challenge from a formidable team. If the SC post stay out of foul trouble that might spell trouble. Coaching will win this game.

 

[Nuyoika]

Good stat line but... 2 of those losses were to Uconn and the other SEC teams, LSU, Ark, and FL has been at the bottom of the conference for quite some time now. Imo everyone of the AAC teams Except Uconn would be a .500 teams in any conference. Oh and four starters on the Uconn team is averaging under 30mins a game in conference play. Only Chong has more. Like I said that doesn't mean there's a weakness. But they has to watch out for a challenge from a formidable team. If the SC post stay out of foul trouble that might spell trouble. Coaching will win this game.

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. I was under the impression you thought that no AAC team could beat any SEC team. If that's not the case I misunderstood. You can remove the following games from the list if that makes more sense to you:

Sun 12/20/15 - East Carolina 57 at South Carolina 88 SEC WIN
Mon 12/21/15 - Louisiana State 40 at Connecticut 86 AAC WIN
Mon 02/08/16 - Connecticut 66 at South Carolina 54 AAC WIN

The point I was making is that there are some just as awful teams in the SEC and you can't ignore them when comparing the conferences just because you also have good teams. UConn usually makes EVERYONE they play look worse than they are.

Also, Florida was ranked in the Top 25 a majority of the year last year as high as 16 at one point and ended the year @ 25. They finished tied for 4th in the SEC.

Ultimately, people see what they want. I prefer to take a hard look before I discount ANY team regardless of conference. Numbers might not tell you the whole story but if watch enough games with those numbers in mind it becomes very clear who has the upper hand.

 

[PRG]

If Geno is still playing Dangerfield even though she's inconsistent in how hard she works, how does this show that he will not let his girls play that way?

Her quote from her own lips tells anyone (if they are listening) that she knows if she does not play hard allllll the time! SHE WILL BE SITTING 😝

 

[Amb3096]

If Geno is still playing Dangerfield even though she's inconsistent in how hard she works, how does this show that he will not let his girls play that way?

She doesn't get big minutes. Chong gets the lion's share of minutes at the PG spot.

 

[Nute Gunray]

I know people don't like it but if the LV are to stay elite and continue to get recruits we have to start playing Uconn again to get national attention. The Wcbb world needs this rivalry too imo. We all love Pat and the moral things she stood for but for the good of the program and the wcbb world I think it's time to move on.

I don't have problem with the LVs playing UCONN. I do have problems with the beatdown they will impose on us.

 

[maxvolfan]

Good teams learn from losses and will eventually beat the team they lose to. Uconn like every team will not always be great.

 

[Kaida71]

Why is that the media refuses to hold Holly Warlick accountable for the inconsistency this team has had? Listening to the post game talk with Landers and Fortner .... they said everything other than Holly has not done a good job keeping these girls competitive and consistent. If any thing everyone shows pity just because she has taken over for Pat ... But that was 5 years ago. How long you gonna hold her hand and not hold her accountable?

 

[NoBackBoard]

I am curious how do you know that Holly does not challenge her players (though perhaps in a way that is less combative than Geno)?

Given that our big 3 have upped their game, perhaps Holly's approach is in fact effective.

The problem with using Geno as an exemplar is that he is such an outlier. Uconn has been dominating everyone for a quite a while. I am not at all convinced that he is in fact more demanding than say, Mulkey or Tara van de Veer, or Brenda Freise, or Viv Stringer (the icon of a disciplinarian coach, after CPS), or any other coach who is consistently in the top 10.

What separates Geno from the rest is that he and his staff/scouts have a great eye for talent and more specifically, finding talented players whose skills blend together and fit his system. He is obviously a good X and O coach and his recruiting acumen gives him a deep bench with lots of options (Something Holly could have next year if, though I doubt this will happen, Diamond and Mercedes return for a 5th year).

But, he starts with a better mix of players (and he deserves credit for that) which gives him edge on his competition.

As a comparison point, the CPS stare was incredibly effective and the oft noted "KEY" to her championship runs when she just happened to have a Holdsclaw or Parker, each with strong supporting casts. Funny though, when she did not have that elite game changing player, the stare just did not generate championships.

In her post-game interviews, she protects and coddles her players. If you see it differently, that's fine. But my opinion is my own.

 

[xanamanax]

Her quote from her own lips tells anyone (if they are listening) that she knows if she does not play hard allllll the time! SHE WILL BE SITTING 😝

Read her quote. She says "eventually it's got to come or I am not going to play." By her using the word eventually means that Geno is giving her some time to find that consistency before he gives up and benches her. That means he's playing her even while she's inconsistent and not always playing hard. So Geno does accept some inconsistency when it comes to effort, the same thing you get on Holly for.

 

[Rixxx]

I beg to disagree. I believe Geno only accepts full effort. Crystal is a freshman, therefore, Geno will be patient with freshman inconsistant play. Crystal makes some great passes for assists, but sometimes her defense is not on the same level as the rest of the four starters.
How do I know this? I have seen Geno bench Stewie, Tuck, and Gabby for effort that did not match is expectations. I don't know how Holly deals with less than all out effort, or lack of fundamental play.(10 turnovers)

 

[Darth_Vol]

I know people don't like it but if the LV are to stay elite and continue to get recruits we have to start playing Uconn again to get national attention. The Wcbb world needs this rivalry too imo.

Neither Tennessee nor women's basketball have anything to gain from the Lady Vols getting destroyed by UConn every year....

 

[madtownvol]

In her post-game interviews, she protects and coddles her players. If you see it differently, that's fine. But my opinion is my own.

I was not challenging your opinion, just asking what it was based on.

I have heard Holly say that certain players took bad shots, or needed to make decision on the court, per TOs.

In general, though, she does not flail her players in the press conferences. If she did, I am sure some (and I am not directing this comment at you in any way) might lament how Holly is throwing her players under the bus.

Perhaps Holly does not publicly berate players but addresses these issues in the locker room. Of course, I am merely inferring like any one else but she did lock the team out of their well-appointed locker room so that does not seem like coddling per se.