Game Thread: Lady Vols Vs LSU: SEC Semi; 6:30 PM on ESPNU (((WIN 69-67)

[turbovol]

Q. Jordan, it was kind of a tale of two halves for you tonight. What did you feel like flipped the switch to make your numbers go up so much?
JORDAN HORSTON: Rickea staying on me, saying, I need you, Jordy. I don't like letting people down. I'm always like, okay, let me not be selfish. Let me figure out how I can provide and do something productive for this team, because I really want to win. Everybody knows that I want to win, but I gotta give a shout out to my teammates because they pulled me out for real.

I'm a fan of Horston--but her problem has always been that she's essentially a playground player--a street player. I used to play in Brooklyn against teams of street players. The latter were typically athletic and talented but would often lose because of a lack of fundamentals and poor decision-making. That's Horston.

Contrast Jackson with Horston: They are very similar in that they are both excellent athletes, with size and skill sets, but their styles are totally different. Jackson is a polished basketball player who plays within herself and keeps her game pretty simple. She creates openings and uses them to score. Horston over-complicates everything--tries to do too much, creates an opening to shoot but doesn't take the shot and instead tries to dribble past two more defenders and loses the ball. She does so many good things but her poor decision-making is absolutely maddening and is going to make things hard for her at the next level, I predict. Look at the start of the second half--our first possession. Horston gets the ball and essentially charges at two defenders and throws up some wild shot that doesn't come close. In the closing minutes of the game, tight game, I think we were down 4, she has a wide-open layup, gives it her hot-dog one-handed shot--and misses. She then lost the ball with under a minute to go and nearly had another last- minute of the game turnover when she was inbounding the ball---made a bad pass that was tipped and in the hands of an LSU player, but I think Horston was able to knock it away from her and one of our players recovered it. If she got rid of the playground and played a simpler, more fundamental style, still using all her talents, she'd be 20 percent better than she is--though decision-making would still be an issue. Great player and great Vol, but maddenly erratic and it's too late to change her now.

 

[Memvol44]

Was Danny White at this game?

 

[Texas]

I don’t know the last time I’ve rewatched a LV basketball game. Likely, it was when they showed the last championship over Stanford during the pandemic. But, I am today. Forgot how fun it could be.

One thing I noticed is that Creme looks like he’s undertaken reconstructive surgery to look like Geno

 

[Texas]

Did Kelly out coach Mulkey? A decided tier one coach? How can that be? The clown was very disrespectful to her players in blaming them, which is low class. She had no adjustments for the defense of the LVs.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

You and me both. It was a text book comeback. They did not try to get "it all back at once" but just kept whittling the deficit down and they totally got in LSU's heads. When Tess got fouled for three shots. Kellie give this little smirk that said "we're coming."

Kellie's Presser was interesting. Said that she did not yell or go RA!RA! at half. It was just a methodical discussion of what they needed to do [NEWS FLASH-- Kellie was not happy with 13 TOs in the first half] and she complimented the team for staying even keeled through the highs and the lows of the game.

I’m sure this was said very calmly.

“I did not think we were as tough as we needed to be in the first half. Obviously the turnovers were really hurting us. We had 13 in the first half. We talked about -- we reviewed again why we were making those turnovers and how we could not make those turnovers.”

 

[glv98]

Jordan has been an interesting (and exhausting) sports psychology case. She has owned the struggles bravely and honestly. It's not going to change now but I hope the WNBA (in 2 yrs) is a good reset that helps her.

Good news is she can still help us a lot and did last night. RJ is so awesome she just needs a little help, but needs to know someone else, esp JH, is there. That JH responded to that at halftime (and we were all screaming Jordy please help her!) is a great sign. I'd love to see JH have a full 40 min good game today.

 

[Volfan2012]

I'll be enjoying the game today no matter how it turns out. I really believe if we can get Jordan Horston to play team ball and the team take care of the ball like that second half, just four turnovers, we have a good chance to win today. We know SC is the best team in the nation and how you have to play a near perfect game to beat them. I think we have it in us we showed it for a half of a game yesterday. 43 to 27 second half means we were locked in like never before this season. All five players playing with all they had as a team. It was fabulous to see been looking to see it all season. Looking forward to the game today and the opportunity we have. I had lost some confidence in the team and they gave it back to me yesterday.

 

[37620VOL]

I'm a fan of Horston--but her problem has always been that she's essentially a playground player--a street player. I used to play in Brooklyn against teams of street players. The latter were typically athletic and talented but would often lose because of a lack of fundamentals and poor decision-making. That's Horston.

Contrast Jackson with Horston: They are very similar in that they are both excellent athletes, with size and skill sets, but their styles are totally different. Jackson is a polished basketball player who plays within herself and keeps her game pretty simple. She creates openings and uses them to score. Horston over-complicates everything--tries to do too much, creates an opening to shoot but doesn't take the shot and instead tries to dribble past two more defenders and loses the ball. She does so many good things but her poor decision-making is absolutely maddening and is going to make things hard for her at the next level, I predict. Look at the start of the second half--our first possession. Horston gets the ball and essentially charges at two defenders and throws up some wild shot that doesn't come close. In the closing minutes of the game, tight game, I think we were down 4, she has a wide-open layup, gives it her hot-dog one-handed shot--and misses. She then lost the ball with under a minute to go and nearly had another last- minute of the game turnover when she was inbounding the ball---made a bad pass that was tipped and in the hands of an LSU player, but I think Horston was able to knock it away from her and one of our players recovered it. If she got rid of the playground and played a simpler, more fundamental style, still using all her talents, she'd be 20 percent better than she is--though decision-making would still be an issue. Great player and great Vol, but maddenly erratic and it's too late to change her now.

I don't think that's fair at all. For any Horston vs Jackson comparison on offense, the reverse could be said on defense. Horston is very smooth, refined, and technically sound on defense. This is obvious.

I think it's less obvious but Horston has some polished moves on the offensive end too. She's not as smooth or efficient down there as Jackson, but Jackson is at a master's level. I also have a feeling that if you reversed Horston and Jackson's roles on offense, Jackson would have at least as many TOs. Most of our turnovers are on post entry passes, and Horston gets some extra ones because she is expected to create something from nothing at the end of the shot clock.

I wish we had better spacing on offense because it could help cut down on the TOs, but I won't complain too much because the offense is soo much better than it was 4 years ago.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Good morning It's good to see a thread about a win reach these numbers in terms of responses


Can't help but notice some of the usual suspects didn't do their normal drive by posts. One made the time to post last night right after the win in another thread on volnation lol but i'm sure they'll find time to criticize today if we lose .

Regardless go LVs !!! also thanks KELLIE for making the right adjustments in the second half. I have been critical of her substitution patterns and some of her moves but last night she proved herself against a proven coach.

 

[River67]

Did someone say Finley Chastain was at the game yesterday? If so I hope she stayed for this one too!!

She was there for both games! Talk about a kid being all in

 

[lvocd]

Did someone say Finley Chastain was at the game yesterday? If so I hope she stayed for this one too!!

I'm not positive, but I think I spotted her in the background of one of the post-game videos I ran across last night. Whoever it was looked understandably awestruck..

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I'm not positive, but I think I spotted her in the background of one of the post-game videos I ran across last night. Whoever it was looked understandably awestruck..

she posted that she was there

 

[Coach Jumper]

I'm a fan of Horston--but her problem has always been that she's essentially a playground player--a street player. I used to play in Brooklyn against teams of street players. The latter were typically athletic and talented but would often lose because of a lack of fundamentals and poor decision-making. That's Horston.

Contrast Jackson with Horston: They are very similar in that they are both excellent athletes, with size and skill sets, but their styles are totally different. Jackson is a polished basketball player who plays within herself and keeps her game pretty simple. She creates openings and uses them to score. Horston over-complicates everything--tries to do too much, creates an opening to shoot but doesn't take the shot and instead tries to dribble past two more defenders and loses the ball. She does so many good things but her poor decision-making is absolutely maddening and is going to make things hard for her at the next level, I predict. Look at the start of the second half--our first possession. Horston gets the ball and essentially charges at two defenders and throws up some wild shot that doesn't come close. In the closing minutes of the game, tight game, I think we were down 4, she has a wide-open layup, gives it her hot-dog one-handed shot--and misses. She then lost the ball with under a minute to go and nearly had another last- minute of the game turnover when she was inbounding the ball---made a bad pass that was tipped and in the hands of an LSU player, but I think Horston was able to knock it away from her and one of our players recovered it. If she got rid of the playground and played a simpler, more fundamental style, still using all her talents, she'd be 20 percent better than she is--though decision-making would still be an issue. Great player and great Vol, but maddenly erratic and it's too late to change her now.

A mentor of mine once said "give me your child for the first five years and he/she will be influenced for the rest of their life"......This is true for players as well, but less..."give me the player for the first 3 years and they will be influenced for the rest of their life.

UPWARDS is a great program for those who want to enjoy the novelty of basketball. However if the child's/parent's ultimate goal is to make BB their sport, they should avoid it like a plague. Fully 90-95% of the kids I used to get who were first year AAUers played one year, or less, and quit. BC they found out that though they dominated upwards, they were bottom or close to the bottom of AAU talent.

re: "it's too late to change her now"
This is true, unless they come into contact with a personality stronger than theirs.
I will cover much more on this topic in two years,,,stay tuned

 

[Dadof2Vols]

I know this win is a bitter pill. You need to be introduced to a guy named Darth!

You could not be further from the truth. I was watching yesterday pulling for this team to win from the opening whistle otherwise I would not have watched.

I did not grow up a volunteer fan. I did however admire Pat and her teams from afar. I have become a Vols fan due to having two kids that fell in love with UT, are now students at UT and began watching religiously 7 years ago when my daughter decided to attend UT. I have however watched, studied, and played basketball for over 50 years.

With that said, the Ladyvols yesterday came out undisciplined, sloppy, and turnover prone from the opening whistle. CKH has had 4 years to instill her culture. At this point, undisciplined, sloppy, and turnover prone play should not be tolerated but in most losses, you can point to that.

From the start I was frustrated with the play. I believe like so many on the board here that the CKH fans call folks CKH haters who are simply frustrated with seeing the same culture flaws in this team show up during losses. There simply is no excuse at this point in CKH tenure for most of these turnovers.

So yes, you can hate on me for calling out what I believe is the teams flaws and great leaders admit the buck stops with them. If in 4 years CKH cannot change the court culture, recruit her own championship caliber players, and show that she can recruit high school ladies consistently which is what it will take to return and sustain the program to meet what Pat’s expectation were then the ladies are going to stay in the same wilderness that the football has been in for so many years.

Maybe CKH will win it all this year and I hope she does. But there are only three choices for CKH. This team needs to continuously improve, stay where they are and be happy with that or CKH will need to move on and the team find someone that can make the program a consistent Top 5 program again. DW will have to decided where we are.

I was pulling for them yesterday, will be pulling for them today, and will be pulling for them the rest of the season. I was simply calling out that no CKH defenders showed up in the first half to defend that sloppy play. I stand by that statement and that’s fine if you want to take shots at me if you were OK with the first half play.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Jordan has been an interesting (and exhausting) sports psychology case. She has owned the struggles bravely and honestly. It's not going to change now but I hope the WNBA (in 2 yrs) is a good reset that helps her.

Good news is she can still help us a lot and did last night. RJ is so awesome she just needs a little help, but needs to know someone else, esp JH, is there. That JH responded to that at halftime (and we were all screaming Jordy please help her!) is a great sign. I'd love to see JH have a full 40 min good game today.

Only those of us who remember her fresh/soph years can see the progress Jordan has made,,,and it is huge compared to her entry...and when she reaches the coaching of t he Wnba,,,she will grow in leaps and bounds

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Rewatched the last half of the game, and noticed some things I didn’t see before, but first:

I know we all like the scoring, but our defense was beautiful, by all our players. Someone taught Jillian well, because on that shot by Reese near the end, Jill kept her body there, and kept her arms straight up, without trying to swat the ball. The shot was missed and the foul called on Reese was correct, and Jill had textbook form. Way to go Jill!

Noticed the inbound pass with 40 seconds on the clock where the ball was tipped back to Horston who then tipped it back to Rickea. Oh my.

Saw Morrison go back to the LSU bench and slap away the hand of an assistant as he reached out to her the way others were doing for the hand slap. She would be benched on our team for that behavior.

Last, but not least, saw where in our last timeout, while Tess was facing our Coach listening, Edie put both her hands on Tess’s shoulders, giving her support. Sweet sister love, a beautiful thing.

 

[Lucy]

You could not be further from the truth. I was watching yesterday pulling for this team to win from the opening whistle otherwise I would not have watched.

I did not grow up a volunteer fan. I did however admire Pat and her teams from afar. I have become a Vols fan due to having two kids that fell in love with UT, are now students at UT and began watching religiously 7 years ago when my daughter decided to attend UT. I have however watched, studied, and played basketball for over 50 years.

With that said, the Ladyvols yesterday came out undisciplined, sloppy, and turnover prone from the opening whistle. CKH has had 4 years to instill her culture. At this point, undisciplined, sloppy, and turnover prone play should not be tolerated but in most losses, you can point to that.

From the start I was frustrated with the play. I believe like so many on the board here that the CKH fans call folks CKH haters who are simply frustrated with seeing the same culture flaws in this team show up during losses. There simply is no excuse at this point in CKH tenure for most of these turnovers.

So yes, you can hate on me for calling out what I believe is the teams flaws and great leaders admit the buck stops with them. If in 4 years CKH cannot change the court culture, recruit her own championship caliber players, and show that she can recruit high school ladies consistently which is what it will take to return and sustain the program to meet what Pat’s expectation were then the ladies are going to stay in the same wilderness that the football has been in for so many years.

Maybe CKH will win it all this year and I hope she does. But there are only three choices for CKH. This team needs to continuously improve, stay where they are and be happy with that or CKH will need to move on and the team find someone that can make the program a consistent Top 5 program again. DW will have to decided where we are.

I was pulling for them yesterday, will be pulling for them today, and will be pulling for them the rest of the season. I was simply calling out that no CKH defenders showed up in the first half to defend that sloppy play. I stand by that statement and that’s fine if you want to take shots at me if you were OK with the first half play.

I never come on game threads until after the game because of seagull fans. Rationalize all you want but that coach and that team got it done. It was a masterful coaching job. Including out coaching a supposedly top 4 coach. I imagine our AD was duly impressed. He needs to worry about who we have leading the baseball program!

 

[Dadof2Vols]

I never come on game threads until after the game because of seagull fans. Rationalize all you want but that coach and that team got it done. It was a masterful coaching job. Including out coaching a supposedly top 4 coach. I imagine our AD was duly impressed. He needs to worry about who we have leading the baseball program!

I agree she did a great job in second half. First half was terrible.

I think the ladies did a great job winning the game.

They must correct the undisciplined sloppy play moving forward or winning will be short lived.

I am pulling for them.

 

[37620VOL]

Rewatched the last half of the game, and noticed some things I didn’t see before, but first:

Saw Morrison go back to the LSU bench and slap away the hand of an assistant as he reached out to her the way others were doing for the hand slap. She would be benched on our team for that behavior.

Was it the dude in the shimmering jacket or the other dude in the horrible blue suit? Maybe she was temporarily blinded?

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Was it the dude in the shimmering jacket or the other dude in the horrible blue suit? Maybe she was temporarily blinded?

bahahahaha

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Was it the dude in the shimmering jacket or the other dude in the horrible blue suit? Maybe she was temporarily blinded?

He was in blue, and she slapped his hand away and mouthed at him. It was pretty shocking actually. Made me appreciate Our Lady Vol Team even more.

 

[volnationnj]

A mentor of mine once said "give me your child for the first five years and he/she will be influenced for the rest of their life"......This is true for players as well, but less..."give me the player for the first 3 years and they will be influenced for the rest of their life.

UPWARDS is a great program for those who want to enjoy the novelty of basketball. However if the child's/parent's ultimate goal is to make BB their sport, they should avoid it like a plague. Fully 90-95% of the kids I used to get who were first year AAUers played one year, or less, and quit. BC they found out that though they dominated upwards, they were bottom or close to the bottom of AAU talent.

re: "it's too late to change her now"
This is true, unless they come into contact with a personality stronger than theirs.
I will cover much more on this topic in two years,,,stay tuned

That's paraphrasing Aristotle, who is generally attributed as the person who said "Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man". It was, reportedly, later paraphrased by Vladimir Lenin as "Give me a child for the first 5 years of his life and he will be mine forever".
The point being that influencing children, for an extended period of time, will usually have a lifelong effect on them.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I love how people come on here posting tirades of messages about play but when play turns around they stop posting...

You can be disappointed in play and express your displeasure in it that's fair and actually a part of being a fan but you can also post when the play turns around and give credit where credit is due.

I felt like Kellie grew this game because old kellie would have tried to keep forcing Franklin or Puckett into the game somehow. I wanted to pull my hair out with Franklin the past two games but I was glad to see the substitutions she made and use her timeouts wisely. The first half was very Yuck but even with that you could see them picking up steam and kellie and company coached them through the nerves.

 

[VOLPAT]

I hope Tess has a big game but I'm concerned she won't get a bunch of open looks vs a team like LSU.

Got to take care of the ball this time. The X factor is our defense vs Morris. We can't let her get hot because she is tough to stop for anyone if she clicking. If they can keep Morris somewhat in check, they can win this round.

Your concern should be that Tess spends too much Time WIDE OPEN while the point guard doesn’t seem to see her.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Your concern should be that Tess spends too much Time WIDE OPEN while the point guard doesn’t seem to see her.

why does one of the best 3 point shooters in our conference have to scream her head off she is open LOL like run a couple set plays for her and let her fire away lol