Game Thread: Lady Vols Vs LSU; Thurs Jan 9th ; Home game; 6:30 PM Eastern; SEC+ stream

[Volfan2012]

I wish CKC would adopt CPS's attitude toward defense and rebounding. These were close losses but they could have been wins with better defense and rebounding. CKC is very offensive minded and she has achieved a .880 (rounded) winning percentage with this mindset. However, this mindset alone will not work in the SEC. She must make defense and rebounding a priority together with her offensive mindset.

Well that is all she talks about in the press conferences. Says that is what they spend a lot of time on in practice. Said the fact the team is not getting it is on her and she will have to find a way to get it done.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well that is all she talks about in the press conferences. Says that is what they spend a lot of time on in practice. Said the fact the team is not getting it is on her and she will have to find a way to get it done.

Who's in control of their "switch"?
It's u p to the HC to be in charge of this

If you wait for someone else to turn the light on, you’ll never look for the switch

 

[Volfan2012]

Who's in control of their "switch"?
It's u p to the HC to be in charge of this

If you wait for someone else to turn the light on, you’ll never look for the switch

I think they understand what they need to do to win. I think we still have some players that like to free lance it in the beginning of the game and see if they can get by with it and still win. May need a Latham in there to get us started. If they can play 25 minutes like they played last night and win that by double digits. They can play like that the other fifteen and avoid losing by double digits.

 

[madtownvol]

Capt Obvs checking in here, our half court D is awful. Unlike CKC who works her Bad Chipmunk persona to the nth degree, I don’t think it’s bc of lack of effort or not carrying out game plan. Why would players bust ass so completely in the back court press only to get into front court and quit?

IMO it’s exactly bc of the backcourt effort that they’re giving up so many easy mid range shots and layups. BC of overplay in backcourt, they,re never in position and almost always scrambling in the frontcourt. We always knew that would be a problem against better teams and it’s on coaching to figure out when to dial it back and how to adjust.

Also, we need better teaching on when and how to help and rotate on defense in this system when they are able to be set up properly in the half court. This is also on coaching.

Also, on rebounding we’re undersized, which we knew and said fm the beginning. This isn’t lack of effort, it’s a bug of the system.

I get the total hardassery CKC is trying to sell. But her presser had a bit of throwing players under the bus to me.

This game is very much glass half full and half empty.

On the half full side, the LVs actually did better particularly in the 2nd half of keeping some players back and not giving up easy fast break lay-ups on a broken press. In fact, during the LVs 3rd quarter run, I thought they are actually playing a fairly conventional defense (and doing it pretty well).

I think the first quarter debacle was the LVs being a bit shell shocked that the LSU was doing to them what they had been doing to other teams. It seemed like it took a full quarter for them to adjust to the speed of the game coming at them. But they did.

I was more bummed about the OK loss than this one. They gave the game to OK with that insane defensive scheme. LSU was more about taking some hard shots and then figuring how to return the blows. So, even the final differential was about the same, this game was a much improved effort.

Jewell continues to cook. Maybe this game is the long awaited turning point for Jillian!! Coop continues to shine. As you noted earlier, our offense can generate points, even when the 3s are not dropping. [Perhaps more half empty but missed FTs and shots at the rim really hurt in the first half but on another night...]

As another poster said, no championships are won in January

Half empty:

NCAA seeding is influenced by January and back to back home losses, even if close, are not helping the cause.

These home losses feed into the narrative that we yet again a "wait till next year team"-- which CKC smartly rejected in her presser.

The list of "she is the best player in the country and we certainly won't face anyone like that again this season" adds a new name with each game and it now includes Morrow.

Fan momentum is a fragile thing. Win those two games and the LVs would be looking at sell out home games. Not sure what effects these losses will have but they need to win back some of the lost mojo.

CKC is right. They don't get these games back and they need to go on a run and pull upsets to prove that they are a threat for this season.

 

[VolBall09]

Interesting. You have gone from CKC's scheme will absolutely stream roll all opposition like a runaway freight train and anyone who dares to suggest it has some vulnerabilities "knows nothing about basketball" (as do those who brought up that VA Tech killed Marshall by breaking their press continuously). Nice, now you see over aggressive pressing is a very risky endeavor. Welcome to reality.

What are you talking about lmao ?

 

[madtownvol]

What are you talking about lmao ?

Nothing honey. You try hard.

 

[Unimane]

Let’s say they win the next 3 games, the only game I’m looking forward to is Texas because they are better than LSU and Oklahoma by far, so that game will tell me where we are at that time.

Not being a top ten team in the first year after having to cobble a lineup together in April isn't particularly terrible occurrence. Most of what I'm seeing is reactionary nonsense, which is why most are posting on a message board and not in charge of program (re)building.

Regardless, only losing to the top level teams in the sport and beating everyone else does not suggest mid-level status, particularly when we're talking, literally, one basket in each of those games. Getting despondent and resigned rather than eager for the next opportunity seems rather idiotic for those who are doing it.

 

[Lucy]

Respect

Yes, that was super impressive. CKC is no nonsense but also 100%about her kids.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I think they understand what they need to do to win. I think we still have some players that like to free lance it in the beginning of the game and see if they can get by with it and still win. May need a Latham in there to get us started. If they can play 25 minutes like they played last night and win that by double digits. They can play like that the other fifteen and avoid losing by double digits.

Latham may very well be the key to better starts
The strongest set they had in the LSU game was when Jill, ALyssa, and any combination of the these guards (Cooper, Whitehorn, Spear, Boyd, Spencer) was on the floor

 

[DarkPhoenix]

You do know Oklahoma loss to Texas by 7 points right?
All your “rest assured” posturing of knowing without a doubt what the future holds is getting played out.

I don’t know what the future holds, that’s why I said I’ll wait until after the Texas game, because I think they’re the best team in the Sec, nobody else has to agree with me. Also Miss St. beat Oklahoma at home, like I said they aren’t that good.

 

[ThatVolGuy]

Fan momentum is a fragile thing. Win those two games and the LVs would be looking at sell out home games. Not sure what effects these losses will have but they need to win back some of the lost mojo.

Not to be too harsh, because I don't necessarily disagree with your general point, but any fan who's legitimately feeling deflated after these losses (especially to the point of checking out) needs a reality check. Does it suck to lose games against top opponents that we 100% could've won? Yes, of course. But this is year one of a new coach who's implementing a radically different system, and this is following a decade-plus where the program felt increasingly irrelevant and further separated from the top teams. Did they want her to get the team to #1 right off the bat by steamrolling the SEC? Hell, even just competing with top ten teams the way we did this week is probably more than I expected. I just don't know where the sense of entitlement is coming from given our recent history.

Kim's got the temperament, the smarts, and the player-first mindset to make it all happen. What she's doing in her first year competing in perhaps the toughest league in the sport is pretty incredible. I'm supremely confident the results will get better with time and the incoming talent infusion. I just want people to ride it out, stay optimistic, take the good with the bad, and support the program with their full chests.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I know it's been a rough week, but I'm as convinced as ever that Kim Caldwell is going to be a great success here. Go Big Orange!

 

[Sudden Impact]

I am one that does not complain about the refs often but will provide input as to what I see on the court.

The close games as in the last two games we have lost due to questionable calls. Yes it works both ways and OK or LSU may have said the same if they lost as well.

You take your losses as they come to you. Morale victories do not count but we are down to a point that it is much better/closer than the previous 7 years. Much more competitive than we have been done gaining confidence every game.

Get into the tourney and don't worry about the seeding because we can make a run.

You know what to expect from the Lady Vols but you really don't know what the experience is like until you get there. Just give it time.

 

[newladyvolfan]

I know it's been a rough week, but I'm as convinced as ever that Kim Caldwell is going to be a great success here. Go Big Orange!

Drinking Koolaid.. What happens when Lazo and Roman leave

 

[ThatVolGuy]

Drinking Koolaid.. What happens when Lazo and Roman leave

A more interesting question is ... what happens when a weird interloper posing as a Lady Vol fan leaves the rest of us in peace?

 

[Volfan2012]

I know it's been a rough week, but I'm as convinced as ever that Kim Caldwell is going to be a great success here. Go Big Orange!

I think were going to get it figured out. Losing these two games was as much about shooting as anything else. Kim is three points away from being a genius. The good news is if we beat Arkansas we'll only be one game behind either Texas or SC come Sunday afternoon.

 

[madtownvol]

Not to be too harsh, because I don't necessarily disagree with your general point, but any fan who's legitimately feeling deflated after these losses (especially to the point of checking out) needs a reality check. Does it suck to lose games against top opponents that we 100% could've won? Yes, of course. But this is year one of a new coach who's implementing a radically different system, and this is following a decade-plus where the program felt increasingly irrelevant and further separated from the top teams. Did they want her to get the team to #1 right off the bat by steamrolling the SEC? Hell, even just competing with top ten teams the way we did this week is probably more than I expected. I just don't know where the sense of entitlement is coming from given our recent history.

Kim's got the temperament, the smarts, and the player-first mindset to make it all happen. What she's doing in her first year competing in perhaps the toughest league in the sport is pretty incredible. I'm supremely confident the results will get better with time and the incoming talent infusion. I just want people to ride it out, stay optimistic, take the good with the bad, and support the program with their full chests.

The difference between 9,000 fans and 15K at home games are the bandwagon fans, who get excited about the LVs being national contenders and want to be part of that. Those fans move on fast when adversity hits.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Drinking Koolaid.. What happens when Lazo and Roman leave

 

[papatomany]

We got our asses kicked against LSU and Oklahoma… a lucky comeback does mean we are at there level yet

Absolutely nothing "lucky" about these comebacks.

 

[Volfan2012]

Absolutely nothing "lucky" about these comebacks.

The stats bare out there was no luck to it. We outrebounded them and shot better than they did for the last 25 minutes and won by double digits.

 

[Lucy]

Really hate that we let two really good wins slip away but……
If I honestly look at this team and staff we are way ahead of where I thought we would be at this point in the season. Three points from being a top five team. Four weeks from now we will get those three points and I believe will be a top ten team.
I wonder if our slow starts are attributable to a little overthinking. CKC is asking players to play a different system than most have played before. I see the wheels turning which leaves us a half step behind. When all of this becomes reaction not computing I think we will see better starts. This team can obviously play really well when they are in a “flow” state.
Mulkey seemed cranky at her presser. I think she thought they would beat us handily. Complimentary of Coop. Was flippant that all you need to do is throw the ball over the press and hit your layups. This seems to be the predominant game plan against us leading to a high shooting percentage and a lot of paint points for the bad guys.
So, my friends who are technicians not just lowly fans ( and I mean that sincerely), what say ye?
How do we stop that game plan? Thanks in advance. I’ll hang up and listen!

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Good points Lucy. Yes Kim gave her the opposing teams game plan right there and it will be for every team going forward until they adjust. The coaching staff recognizes this. Be interesting to see what they come up with. Also the lady's have to get into the mindset you have to play all 4 qtrs to beat good teams.

Quote from Mulkey post game:

Mulkey said LSU established the early lead by overcoming Tennessee's press. If you beat the press, you can find layups at ease.

"I think we got 60 paint points. Told them that. You take care of the ball, you're going to get every shot you want in the paint. And we did,"

 

[Volfan2012]

Really hate that we let two really good wins slip away but……
If I honestly look at this team and staff we are way ahead of where I thought we would be at this point in the season. Three points from being a top five team. Four weeks from now we will get those three points and I believe will be a top ten team.
I wonder if our slow starts are attributable to a little overthinking. CKC is asking players to play a different system than most have played before. I see the wheels turning which leaves us a half step behind. When all of this becomes reaction not computing I think we will see better starts. This team can obviously play really well when they are in a “flow” state.
Mulkey seemed cranky at her presser. I think she thought they would beat us handily. Complimentary of Coop. Was flippant that all you need to do is throw the ball over the press and hit your layups. This seems to be the predominant game plan against us leading to a high shooting percentage and a lot of paint points for the bad guys.
So, my friends who are technicians not just lowly fans ( and I mean that sincerely), what say ye?
How do we stop that game plan? Thanks in advance. I’ll hang up and listen!

I've said a few times you keep the press in man to man and not trap in the backcourt or even in the frontcourt unless you really have the player cornered. Won't create as many turnovers, but should get them a shorter shot clock which can be effective as well. They are not really throwing over the press it is more when we trap the ball and she can still make the pass they then have a three on two in the frontcourt. Seems we like to do the trapping early to see if it will work and were getting way behind before we stop it. That was more the Oklahoma game.

LSU was simply letting Morrow get rebounds on misses and put it back in. That is how they got their big lead. Figured it out and stopped it, but it took a long time. One or two times should've put someone in that wanted to rebound and box out not wait until were 18 behind. I mean LSU did gets some runouts for layups, but so did we thought that was a lot more even than the easy rebound and putbacks we were allowing for like 14 minutes when the game first started.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Not to be too harsh, because I don't necessarily disagree with your general point, but any fan who's legitimately feeling deflated after these losses (especially to the point of checking out) needs a reality check. Does it suck to lose games against top opponents that we 100% could've won? Yes, of course. But this is year one of a new coach who's implementing a radically different system, and this is following a decade-plus where the program felt increasingly irrelevant and further separated from the top teams. Did they want her to get the team to #1 right off the bat by steamrolling the SEC? Hell, even just competing with top ten teams the way we did this week is probably more than I expected. I just don't know where the sense of entitlement is coming from given our recent history.

Kim's got the temperament, the smarts, and the player-first mindset to make it all happen. What she's doing in her first year competing in perhaps the toughest league in the sport is pretty incredible. I'm supremely confident the results will get better with time and the incoming talent infusion. I just want people to ride it out, stay optimistic, take the good with the bad, and support the program with their full chests.

ThatVolGuy, I agree 100% with everything you wrote. However, I will add that CKC must make defense and rebounding top priorities together with her other game priorities. She will not be successful now or in the future if she doesn't do this.

 

[Lucy]

I've said a few times you keep the press in man to man and not trap in the backcourt or even in the frontcourt unless you really have the player cornered. Won't create as many turnovers, but should get them a shorter shot clock which can be effective as well. They are not really throwing over the press it is more when we trap the ball and she can still make the pass they then have a three on two in the frontcourt. Seems we like to do the trapping early to see if it will work and were getting way behind before we stop it. That was more the Oklahoma game.

LSU was simply letting Morrow get rebounds on misses and put it back in. That is how they got their big lead. Figured it out and stopped it, but it took a long time. One or two times should've put someone in that wanted to rebound and box out not wait until were 18 behind. I mean LSU did gets some runouts for layups, but so did we thought that was a lot more even than the easy rebound and putbacks we were allowing for like 14 minutes when the game first started.

CKC agreed that one person (I think she said Coop) would box out but then no one went to get the ball. We’ve got to remember the majority of the team has not played together.