Game Thread: Lady Vols Vs Oklahoma; Sun Jan 5th ; Home game; 3 PM Eastern; ESPN

[madtownvol]

Wait, we had 30 turnovers and they had 20?!

30 Points from turnovers. Ok had 31 TOs to the LVs 18.

 

[brittannica]

Well, CKC also said "that she did not know" how to fix the problem of the team's slow starting 3rd quarters. Back in the day, when Holly said she did not know how to fix a problem, this board took that statement as conclusive proof that she needed to be fired.

So, let's take all these comments with a proverbial grain of salt.

Postgame pressers are domains of coach speak. They don't want to give too much away or create lingering negativity in the locker room. So saying that we could have won with more "effort" is always the safe option and it is just about what every coach says ever a loss-- oh we got outhustled, out worked blah, blah.

It makes the loss seem like something that is 100% is our sphere of control. Saying, yeah, "I put the players in a position to fail by being over aggressive in the press and making it easy for OK to get transition buckets" would raise doubts right?

Spencer had a more informative read when she said (in paraphrase), since we don't know what each other is going to do, we wind up standing around a lot and waiting for someone to do something and we need to realize that the movement creates the action.

Also, the LVs were 5 for 26 in the first 3 quarters (just under 20%) and then went 5 for 10 in the 4th. And most of the first 26 threes were open shots. It was brick city. So, there was a bit of live by the 3; die by the 3 in those first 3 quarters. The LVs actually won the Offensive rebounding battle 12 to 8 but did not convert on most.

These numbers actually tell the story of the game. Points from TOs kept us in the game. We matched their post advantages by driving to the rim. Second chance points lean to OK with fewer OR. Fast break points (mostly in the first 3 quarters) cost the game. And our bench did not provide enough offensive punch.

View attachment 712473

Spencer's comments were very astute. You can tell she is an experienced player and leader for the team. All that iso ball in the second and third quarter was horrific to watch, even in the moments it was effective. Flashbacks to just leaning on Rickea to carry is through the game. I am very curious to see how they bounce back from this. I do think Kim has a learning curve as well, and I am guilty of forgetting that since we had so much early success. She will have to learn how and when to adapt her system, so we don't give so many transition points while also maintaining the turnover advantage.

 

[Golfteacher]

Spencer's comments were very astute. You can tell she is an experienced player and leader for the team. All that iso ball in the second and third quarter was horrific to watch, even in the moments it was effective. Flashbacks to just leaning on Rickea to carry us through the game. I am very curious to see how they bounce back from this. I do think Kim has a learning curve as well, and I am guilty of forgetting that since we had so much early success. She will have to learn how and when to adapt her system, so we don't give so many transition points while also maintaining the turnover advantage.

Oklahoma plays mostly the same game as the Lady Vols, they live by the three and many times die by the three. During the game, we missed way too many threes which usually fall our way. It is going to happen in this run-and-gun style offense because team shooting will cool off from time to time, you just have to hope that it doesn't cool off to the point you have a string of losses. I still believe this team will be fine. You also need to make adjustments like the guard who was hot for Oklahoma, it seemed as though she did not go to the bench during the 4th quarter.

 

[Lucy]

Tell that to the head coach who said the same thing lmao

Really? That’s your best? One more comment about Kellie?
There is a lot of laughing going on here but it is about you and your hysterical, juvenile in game comments. When the nicest person on here suggests just blocking you during games that should be a clue.

 

[VolBall09]

Really? That’s your best? One more comment about Kellie?
There is a lot of laughing going on here but it is about you and your hysterical, juvenile in game comments. When the nicest person on here suggests just blocking you during games that should be a clue.

What are you talking about?

Kim literally said essentially the same things I said in her post game presser. Team didn’t show up for 3.5 quarters, didn’t rebound or play with heart and came out flat in the third quarter.

 

[VolBall09]

Well, CKC also said "that she did not know" how to fix the problem of the team's slow starting 3rd quarters. Back in the day, when Holly said she did not know how to fix a problem, this board took that statement as conclusive proof that she needed to be fired.

So, let's take all these comments with a proverbial grain of salt.

Postgame pressers are domains of coach speak. They don't want to give too much away or create lingering negativity in the locker room. So saying that we could have won with more "effort" is always the safe option and it is just about what every coach says ever a loss-- oh we got outhustled, out worked blah, blah.

It makes the loss seem like something that is 100% is our sphere of control. Saying, yeah, "I put the players in a position to fail by being over aggressive in the press and making it easy for OK to get transition buckets" would raise doubts right?

Spencer had a more informative read when she said (in paraphrase), since we don't know what each other is going to do, we wind up standing around a lot and waiting for someone to do something and we need to realize that the movement creates the action.

Also, the LVs were 5 for 26 in the first 3 quarters (just under 20%) and then went 5 for 10 in the 4th. And most of the first 26 threes were open shots. It was brick city. So, there was a bit of live by the 3; die by the 3 in those first 3 quarters. The LVs actually won the Offensive rebounding battle 12 to 8 but did not convert on most.

These numbers actually tell the story of the game. Points from TOs kept us in the game. We matched their post advantages by driving to the rim. Second chance points lean to OK with fewer OR. Fast break points (mostly in the first 3 quarters) cost the game. And our bench did not provide enough offensive punch.

View attachment 712473

And the refusal to stop the ball lost it. 41-23 fast break points. All those wide open layups from not picking up the ball in transition killed us.

The way Kim said “I don’t know” and the way Holly said it are very different. Holly quite clearly, didn’t know. Sat there with a pained look signing and wringing her hands.

Kim just blurted I don’t know. Because she means she’s talked to her team about it, they’re practiced it and now it’s up to the team to fix it.

 

[Coach Jumper]

My concern is that the HC didn’t draw it up… it was an assistant

what do you base this on,,,how do you know this

 

[madtownvol]

And the refusal to stop the ball lost it. 41-23 fast break points. All those wide open layups from not picking up the ball in transition killed us.

The way Kim said “I don’t know” and the way Holly said it are very different. Holly quite clearly, didn’t know. Sat there with a pained look signing and wringing her hands.

Kim just blurted I don’t know. Because she means she’s talked to her team about it, they’re practiced it and now it’s up to the team to fix it.

No, Cooper, Boyd, Spencer, Whitehorse, Spear, and Spearman did not "refuse" to stop the ball. When you have four players pressing high and the opponent passes the ball over the top, where they have 3 players against one isolated defender in the paint, that is not a "refusal" -- that is being caught in an over aggressive defense. We are like a football team that blitzes all the time and gets murdered by a QB with a quick release out to the wide open receiver in the flat.

I get it--for you CKC is the "Caitlin Clark" of coaches. She is infallible, beyond question, she always make the right decision and losses and bad plays are always someone else's fault.

To me (and I would bet many on this board), CKC is a super promising young coach who is in her first year of coaching at this level. She is way ahead of schedule but she still has some stuff to learn. The OK coach had the scheme to beat her scheme and CKC was too slow to adapt.

So, THE COACH takes responsibility for most of those defensive breakdowns in the first 3 quarters and credit for finally making the adjustments that inspired the LV's 4th quarter surge.

 

[Rooster1]

That was a reasonable and thoughtful answer. I know she can fix the leaks on her press. I want to see her team learn ball movement in the half-court offense, that is her next hurdle which I believe she is working on as we all type on this thread. At least I hope she is.

 

[chuckiepoo]

No, Cooper, Boyd, Spencer, Whitehorse, Spear, and Spearman did not "refuse" to stop the ball. When you have four players pressing high and the opponent passes the ball over the top, where they have 3 players against one isolated defender in the paint, that is not a "refusal" -- that is being caught in an over aggressive defense. We are like a football team that blitzes all the time and gets murdered by a QB with a quick release out to the wide open receiver in the flat.

I get it--for you CKC is the "Caitlin Clark" of coaches. She is infallible, beyond question, she always make the right decision and losses and bad plays are always someone else's fault.

To me (and I would bet many on this board), CKC is a super promising young coach who is in her first year of coaching at this level. She is way ahead of schedule but she still has some stuff to learn. The OK coach had the scheme to beat her scheme and CKC was way to slow to adapt.

So, THE COACH takes responsibility for most of those defensive breakdowns in the first 3 quarters and credit for finally making the adjustments that inspired the LV's 4th quarter surge.

Hopefully someone on her staff or within her inner sphere of influence is providing a “devil’s advocate” perspective.

Lots of resources up in that athletic department…

 

[Majors]

Really? That’s your best? One more comment about Kellie?
There is a lot of laughing going on here but it is about you and your hysterical, juvenile in game comments. When the nicest person on here suggests just blocking you during games that should be a clue.

I didn’t say that. No need to twist my words, I’m pretty straightforward.

Blocking is for the easily offended. And I don’t block anyone. I enjoy all views.

 

[madtownvol]

Hopefully someone on her staff or within her inner sphere of influence is providing a “devil’s advocate” perspective.

Lots of resources up in that athletic department…

Film don't lie. The problem is blatantly evident. Sometimes it ain't 3 dimensional chess but just making sure you aren't leaving players with wide open layups.

I am quite surprised the game played out like it did, since Liberty and Iowa had a lot of success in breaking our high press. Let's hope this game gets the point across:

On a related note, Kellie Harper, via her role as an SEC network analyst, has CKC's back:

"You'll take that from her all day at the end of the game," Harper said of Puckett. "I think Oklahoma was lucky in that last possession."

 

[chuckiepoo]

I didn’t say that. No need to twist my words, I’m pretty straightforward.

Blocking is for the easily offended. And I don’t block anyone.

 

[volfan102455]

No, Cooper, Boyd, Spencer, Whitehorse, Spear, and Spearman did not "refuse" to stop the ball. When you have four players pressing high and the opponent passes the ball over the top, where they have 3 players against one isolated defender in the paint, that is not a "refusal" -- that is being caught in an over aggressive defense. We are like a football team that blitzes all the time and gets murdered by a QB with a quick release out to the wide open receiver in the flat.

This is a very good description about what happened. Other teams will do the same thing unless adjustments are made. Four pressing against two will always leave a 3 on 1 matchup in the back court and if you allow a long pass, well it is an easy score every time.

 

[Rooster1]

This is a very good description about what happened. Other teams will do the same thing unless adjustments are made. Four pressing against two will always leave a 3 on 1 matchup in the back court and if you allow a long pass, well it is an easy score every time.

Good stuff to ponder. It’s the path for this team to get better IMO. That and a decent half-court offense when it is needed. Let’s not freak out, this team is still capable of great things, they are so talented, esp athletically. They are still sitting pretty imo. LSU is about to find out how pretty. I’d gander something like 88-81 LV’s. I am not sure yet how they look against a Texas or SC, but something tells me they are capable still even in those games. Long way to go yet, much will change between now and March for every team.

 

[VolBall09]

Did any of you actually play basketball in the last 50 years? These takes are comical?

 

[madtownvol]

Did any of you actually play basketball in the last 50 years? These takes are comical?

Must be due to a lack of effort.....

 

[Voluble2]

No, Cooper, Boyd, Spencer, Whitehorse, Spear, and Spearman did not "refuse" to stop the ball.

There were a LOT of times during the game where players did not move to cut off the drive. At least once there were two of them who moved out of the way. Sure, the other team will get behind you sometimes, but that is a separate problem.

Very poor decision making since you have to stop the ball first and then worry about the next man they may pass it to if they have numbers.

BTW, this was a problem both when pressing or in half-court defense. I kept pointing it out in real time to the people I was watching the game with. I am sure Kim sees it too.

There were lots of small things, from free throws, to consistent effort, to better decision making, to shot selection by certain players, to hitting shots we usually make which would have turned this into a win. The team has to push through to another level now that they see how close they are and not let this be a plateau.

 

[newladyvolfan]

what do you base this on,,,how do you know this

Did you watch the game?

 

[Blueconn]

News flash. Not the play she called.

Like the broken clock…right twice every 24 hours.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Thought this was nice.

 

[Twinsbornoncampus]

28% free throw, out rebounded, and inconsistent defense is why I think we lost. All of which I expect will improve as players learn their roles and how to help their teammates win. I believe with a little less me and more us we will be a scary team. Check that maybe a little more discipline will be enough .

 

[madtownvol]

There were a LOT of times during the game where players did not move to cut off the drive. At least once there were two of them who moved out of the way. Sure, the other team will get behind you sometimes, but that is a separate problem.

Very poor decision making since you have to stop the ball first and then worry about the next man they may pass it to if they have numbers.

BTW, this was a problem both when pressing or in half-court defense. I kept pointing it out in real time to the people I was watching the game with. I am sure Kim sees it too.

There were lots of small things, from free throws, to consistent effort, to better decision making, to shot selection by certain players, to hitting shots we usually make which would have turned this into a win. The team has to push through to another level now that they see how close they are and not let this be a plateau.

Sure there were times when the LVs got caught ball watching or missed a defensive rotation but the main problem in the half court defense was the opposite of a lack of effort-- it was too much undisciplined effort. Time and and time again a LV would abandon her space to chase after a ball (creating the illusion of a double team) but making it easy for the OK player to swing the ball over to a wide open teammate; then that LV has to chase back and the OK player with the ball either took the shot or passed to another player who has been left open from this latest defensive chase.

It seems like the LVs have internalized the effort mantra and want to show that they are "hustling" so they chase after the ball (again like 12 year old soccer players), rather than staying "home" with their defensive assignment or space to guard.

What appears to be a "lack of effort" is an out of position LV getting beat by a pass (because the ball moves faster than a player) and then looking dejected because there is nothing she can do at that point. These are positioning mistakes not a lack of effort.

This is not rocket science but just the geometry of the game and it is the aspect where basketball and soccer are really similar. You don't chase after the ball when another teammate has responsibility for that mark, you read the angles, you anticipate passes, you force players away from where they want to get to and so on. .

"Good" effort is chasing after loose balls, fighting over screens, getting back fast in transition etc. The LVs give plenty of that. They need to become more disciplined in their defensive sets and avoid ball chasing mistakes or fouls that derive from being overly aggressive.

Being the "hardest working" team in the country will always be 2nd best to the "smartest and most efficient" team in the country. Work smarter not "harder."

 

[madtownvol]

28% free throw, out rebounded, and inconsistent defense is why I think we lost. All of which I expect will improve as players learn their roles and how to help their teammates win. I believe with a little less me and more us we will be a scary team. Check that maybe a little more discipline will be enough .

The 28% is bad but I think even worse is only getting 7 trips to the line whereas OK got 16 (and made 11). That differential more than decides the game.

We gave them some trips to the line by making silly over aggressive fouls and did not force the issue as much to get them to foul us. No post presence contributes to some of that shortfall so there is a trade-off in a spread offensive system but Ruby, Cooper, and Spencer should have been driving more. Jewell got her game jump started that way,

 

[krichunaka]

Despite the loss and myriad reasons for it, my glass is still at least half full. We played the ninth rated team in the country. We gave up 87 points, and about half of those were uncontested. It could have been a simple problem with back-side rotation. It might have been schematically ill-advised. Doesn't matter. Our players, and it's fair to suggest, our Coach(es) were individually and collectively much too slow to adjust. That layup party went on for too long.

However, adjustments were made, and we caused several second half turnovers. The leaping snag by Jewell was a thing of beauty. And, that steal of Payton Verhulst by Talaysia was silk. Nine steals!

Sure, it was too little, too late, but to play bad defensively and still produce thirty-one turnovers; and to shoot poorly and score 86 points, against the top-ten, very well coached Sooners ...that's something to hang your Davy Crockett hat on. What I'm getting at is, I think this thing is about to explode.

Cheers.