Game Thread Lady Vols vs Tennessee State

#51
#51
FrozenLVFan said:
I think her problem is that she's playing out of position given her skill set. Her passing and dribbling around on the perimeter hasn't helped the team at all for 3 years now, and her shooting has been erratic. Let her back up Graves at the 4 where her size and rebounding ability will be of some benefit.
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EXACTLY! which is why i believe Nared should start at the 3 with burdick being backup 4 with Moore being the backup 5 and let Nared and Jones and Dunbar(3/4) play the 3
 
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#53
#53
dapeak said:
EXACTLY! which is why i believe Nared should start at the 3 with burdick being backup 4 with Moore being the backup 5 and let Nared and Jones and Dunbar(3/4) play the 3
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Holly rewards Cierra for her intensity but it often turns into a bonehead decision.
 
#54
#54
FrozenLVFan said:
I think her problem is that she's playing out of position given her skill set. Her passing and dribbling around on the perimeter hasn't helped the team at all for 3 years now, and her shooting has been erratic. Let her back up Graves at the 4 where her size and rebounding ability will be of some benefit.
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The problem is that Cierra is not a great 4 either. She can't play with her back to the basket, and has no first step. She's the classic tweener, but she's a compromise at either forward position. Jones is also a tweener, but she has some assets that would make her a competent 4. Dunbar can shoot on a team that lacks shooters, so she almost has to be in the rotation. Nared is a natural 3 with a decent long range/mid-range shooting and the ability to take it to the basket and create her own shot. She is easily the best option at the 3.

Sandvol said:
If Cierra shoots a lot against good teams like Stanford we will lose. She needs to stick to what she does well-rebounds and defense.
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If Cierra plays a lot against Stanford, then I think Tennessee will lose. She plays scared against better competition, and that panic infects the entire team.

Sandvol said:
I guess last year she picked it up toward the end of the season. Don't get me wrong. I love her game. But she doesn't have a pretty shot.
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Carter's 3-pt shooting was better when she was coming off the bench. She had a few games when she would get hot, but I agree...her outside shot doesn't look natural. Still, she will need to take the shot if she's on the court and the other team dares her to shoot.

boxerpupsrcool said:
Wonder who she benches? Can't be an easy choice
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It should be Burdick and probably Middleton at this point. Not to knock on Alexa, but Jordan, Ariel and Carter are outplaying her right now, then she'll have to contend with Tucker coming back. I also have an unfortunate feeling that we'll be seeing a lot of Cierra Burdick on the court this year, with Nared and Dunbar spending more time on the bench than they should... :thud:

But on to tonight's game...Tennessee's defense is light years better than it was last year. They are forcing an ungodly amount of turnovers, and the whole team is filling up the stat sheet with steals. The rebounding is a concern that a healthy Harrison and Jones will hopefully correct, so it's a temporary setback in my eyes, but this team is playing very good pressure defense right now. Jordan has made serious improvements to her game since last year, even if she's not a scoring threat. I hope she works on this so that she doesn't become a liability on offense, but she's doing a great job of running the team so far.

I can't believe what I'm seeing with Nia Moore. Even though it hasn't been the toughest of competition, she's been an amazingly efficient workhorse.

I know it's early, but I think this team has as good a chance as any come March. I think there will be some speedbumps as the players build chemistry, but this will be a very dangerous team.
 
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#55
#55
I think we've finally put to rest the concerns about losing players from last year. Our current team more than makes up for Simmon's outside shooting, particularly since they shoot within the flow of the offense instead of disrupting it, and Nia has proven to be way more than a competent replacement for Russell. Now if we could only get Burdick more bench time, we'd truly have addition by subtraction.
 
#56
#56
FrozenLVFan said:
I think we've finally put to rest the concerns about losing players from last year. Our current team more than makes up for Simmon's outside shooting, particularly since they shoot within the flow of the offense instead of disrupting it, and Nia has proven to be way more than a competent replacement for Russell. Now if we could only get Burdick more bench time, we'd truly have addition by subtraction.
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Even though the competition has been soft, Nia Moore has proven to be a superior player to Mercedes so far. Mercedes may not be an automatic starter next year, which is almost unheard of considering the gap in their HS credentials.

I'm still not convinced that they have replaced what Simmons brought to the table just yet. They are getting a lot of steals, forcing a lot of turnovers, and getting a lot of fast break points. When they have teams that shut down the inside, Ariel has been a dependable outside shooter...Carter/Reynolds/Middleton not so much. The potential is there, but I don't think that their backcourt is as strong as it was with Simmons...even with her tendency to disrupt the flow of the offense with her shot selection.

Burdick played 3rd most minutes in tonight's game. I'm afraid we're stuck with her until graduation...
 
#57
#57
Amb3096 said:
Even though the competition has been soft, Nia Moore has proven to be a superior player to Mercedes so far. Mercedes may not be an automatic starter next year, which is almost unheard of considering the gap in their HS credentials.

I'm still not convinced that they have replaced what Simmons brought to the table just yet. They are getting a lot of steals, forcing a lot of turnovers, and getting a lot of fast break points. When they have teams that shut down the inside, Ariel has been a dependable outside shooter...Carter/Reynolds/Middleton not so much. The potential is there, but I don't think that their backcourt is as strong as it was with Simmons...even with her tendency to disrupt the flow of the offense with her shot selection.

Burdick played 3rd most minutes in tonight's game. I'm afraid we're stuck with her until graduation...
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Funny how people see things differently. I thought when Middleton came in we took off on a run in the first half. It just seems like we have a better flow going when she is in there but we will see when the competition gets tougher.
 
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#58
#58
Orange Maniac said:
Funny how people see things differently. I thought when Middleton came in we took off on a run in the first half. It just seems like we have a better flow going when she is in there but we will see when the competition gets tougher.
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I think Middleton will finish her career as a better player than Simmons. She has high bball IQ, is a more consistent defender, a better passer, and has the potential to be an offensive threat. Simmons, love her or hate her, was an explosive scoring machine. She misfired more than I cared to remember, but she also was the difference maker in many more games (unfortunately, not games in the NCAA tournament...). When Tennessee plays better teams, they will need a perimeter player of Simmons' caliber, because the steals won't be as easy to come by and the turnovers won't be piling up. They will need to play half court offense, and can't rely on dumping the ball in the post and holding their collective breaths. That's where Simmons bailed them out a lot for the last 2 years, and that's what they need one of the current guards to replace.
 
#61
#61
Other than wondering what type of audition the crew did in selecting the sideline announcer I came away with some positives.

two of our freshmen can definitely pass and shoot and are adequate in half-court defense. Middleton's mid-range jumper off the dribble is fun to watch

The team doesn't seem to be running many plays in their offense and at times seemed to be over-passing as if playing keep away versus trying to score. The half-court offense may be the defining decision on the shorter-rotation.
 
#62
#62
stllvf said:
The team doesn't seem to be running many plays in their offense and at times seemed to be over-passing as if playing keep away versus trying to score. The half-court offense may be the defining decision on the shorter-rotation.
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That's going to be the thing to watch against tougher teams. When they aren't able to create offense from steals and turnovers, how are they going to score? Tennessee hasn't had a pretty half court offense in years, and they need to field a team with players who can pass precisely and with purpose.

The Texas game should be a good indication of just how good this team is now against better competition. Between that game and the Stanford game, we will know which players can play and which ones look good against lowly competition. I feel strongly that they need to have shooters on the team, which is why I think the starting backcourt of Reynolds/Carter is going to get exposed unless one of them starts scoring consistently. Ariel needs to be in the game from tip off.
 
#64
#64
These team has several areas where they need some rapid improvement or they will get exposed against better competition. The full court press is too porous. If TSU can break it down a few times, teams like Texas, Stanford and UTC will be able to find those gaps frequently. The half court is too stagnant. Getting Izzy back should help improve things but the spacing on the court needs to improve. And players are still getting beat off the dribble more than they should (particularly against this level of competition). Its early in the season and there is time to improve on these areas but in the next week, these LVs need to pump up their overall quality of play.
 
#65
#65
While I agree with many of the comments about the game, I can't help but laugh. Only Lady Vol fans, me included, would be complaining about a 51 point win without our best player. :lol:
 
#66
#66
Every time Burdick gets in the game I get upset. I am not against her playing but she should only have to play if another player is injured or in foul trouble. This is her Senior season and she has been a disappointment being rated #3 in her recruiting class coming out of high school (which I don't see how). At this stage in her career she shouldn't be getting many minutes because we already know what she can do. We need to see what we have in our young talent and get them ready for the tournament. (We have the pieces to win it all, just afraid that Holly's inability to recognize who to play when and with who is going to hurt us. I will say again that our lineup needs to be adjusted to better suit what we are trying to do. Reynolds doesn't score/shoot because she prefers to be the facilitator and I have no problem with that, she gets steals and gets to the rim and causes fouls and she rarely turns the ball over. Same with Carter (but Carter is a better shooter from 3) Middleton and Massingale are your Combo guards who are your scorers and should be played as such with Dunbar, Nared, and Tucker playing the 3 spot exclusively. In order for us to win in Tampa Holly needs to use this lineup and don't stray from it. The lineup is as follow;

Starters/Bench
PG-Reynolds/Carter/Middleton (only if needed)
SG-Massingale/Middleton/Tucker (only if going big)
SF-Nared/Tucker/Dunbar (I saw Tucker play several times in high school and if healthy she will take over the starting spot. The girl is an animal)
PF-Graves/Jones/Burdick
C-Harrison/Moore

If I am Holly I would see how much I could get away with playing Izzy and Moore together because when we face a team like South Carolina we will need to develop a big package with them possibly having a lineup of 5'9", 6'0", 6'5", 6'4", 6'4" (Mitchell, Welch, Wilson, Ibiam, Coates) we need to counter with 5'11", 6'0, 6'2", 6'3", 6'3" (Reynolds, Tucker, Nared, Moore, Harrison). If Holly coaches like she should with the talent she have, if we should lose it would only be to South Carolina (which I think we will beat them our girls will be determined to show they shouldn't have been ranked behind SC after winning the Conference Title last year) and Possibly ND (because Loyd will pose problems we have the advantage at all the other positions) I truly think if we can win 9 this year, we have a chance at at least repeating in 2015 (With the Addition of Diamond and return of Russell to go with the additions of MeMe and Te'a) and with us losing only Graves, Jasmine, and Moore in 2015 (we have to get some Quality post in 2016) we might be looking at a possible 3 peat and our lady Vols will return to domination as more young girl will want to return because Holly would have stabilized the program. (Wishful Thinking)
 
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#67
#67
FrozenLVFan said:
Let's not make the mistake of looking past UTC to Texas. Been there, done that.
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UND blew out UTC by 30+ points last week. While it's true that teams shouldn't overlook other teams, this is one where if UTC stays with the Lady Vols, then there are some serious flaws that need to be corrected before the Texas game.

Decker Moss said:
While I agree with many of the comments about the game, I can't help but laugh. Only Lady Vol fans, me included, would be complaining about a 51 point win without our best player. :lol:
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It think we're just being realistic and trying to keep things in perspective. Just like last season, there was a lot of, "we won by 50 points!" last season after the team blew out some cupcakes and their performance was dissected. Sure enough, here comes LSU or Vandy to prove those concerns correct. Same is true here. They are good enough to win by 50+ points against Tennessee State, but are they good enough to beat Texas playing at the same level? They can't get complacent.
 
#68
#68
Amb3096 said:
It think we're just being realistic and trying to keep things in perspective. Just like last season, there was a lot of, "we won by 50 points!" last season after the team blew out some cupcakes and their performance was dissected..... They are good enough to win by 50+ points against Tennessee State, but are they good enough to beat Texas playing at the same level? They can't get complacent.
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Its not even about complacency. This program needs to get back to a Final four level or else its status and recruiting power is going suffer. It has been a long drought. Given that goal, it is hard to overly excited about a 50 pt win against Tenn. State, when some chinks in the LV armor are very visible. Against a good team, the LV's painfully slow and discombobulated start would have put them in a hole they probably could not get out of. They had lots of defensive lapses that were glossed over by Tenn St.'s inability to capitalize and the LVs superior athleticism. Better quality teams would be able to cash in.

I agree that you have to enjoy the wins as they come and appreciate the performances. However, as fans, we can still ask if are they playing like a team that looks like a final four contender. On that dimensions, this team has work to do.
 
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#69
#69
mlindsay said:
Every time Burdick gets in the game I get upset. I am not against her playing but she should only have to play if another player is injured or in foul trouble. This is her Senior season and she has been a disappointment being rated #3 in her recruiting class coming out of high school (which I don't see how). At this stage in her career she shouldn't be getting many minutes because we already know what she can do. We need to see what we have in our young talent and get them ready for the tournament. (We have the pieces to win it all, just afraid that Holly's inability to recognize who to play when and with who is going to hurt us. I will say again that our lineup needs to be adjusted to better suit what we are trying to do. Reynolds doesn't score/shoot because she prefers to be the facilitator and I have no problem with that, she gets steals and gets to the rim and causes fouls and she rarely turns the ball over. Same with Carter (but Carter is a better shooter from 3) Middleton and Massingale are your Combo guards who are your scorers and should be played as such with Dunbar, Nared, and Tucker playing the 3 spot exclusively. In order for us to win in Tampa Holly needs to use this lineup and don't stray from it. The lineup is as follow;

Starters/Bench
PG-Reynolds/Carter/Middleton (only if needed)
SG-Massingale/Middleton/Tucker (only if going big)
SF-Nared/Tucker/Dunbar (I saw Tucker play several times in high school and if healthy she will take over the starting spot. The girl is an animal)
PF-Graves/Jones/Burdick
C-Harrison/Moore

If I am Holly I would see how much I could get away with playing Izzy and Moore together because when we face a team like South Carolina we will need to develop a big package with them possibly having a lineup of 5'9", 6'0", 6'5", 6'4", 6'4" (Mitchell, Welch, Wilson, Ibiam, Coates) we need to counter with 5'11", 6'0, 6'2", 6'3", 6'3" (Reynolds, Tucker, Nared, Moore, Harrison). If Holly coaches like she should with the talent she have, if we should lose it would only be to South Carolina (which I think we will beat them our girls will be determined to show they shouldn't have been ranked behind SC after winning the Conference Title last year) and Possibly ND (because Loyd will pose problems we have the advantage at all the other positions) I truly think if we can win 9 this year, we have a chance at at least repeating in 2015 (With the Addition of Diamond and return of Russell to go with the additions of MeMe and Te'a) and with us losing only Graves, Jasmine, and Moore in 2015 (we have to get some Quality post in 2016) we might be looking at a possible 3 peat and our lady Vols will return to domination as more young girl will want to return because Holly would have stabilized the program. (Wishful Thinking)
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I couldn't agree more with what you say here..if you have the trio of burdick carter and Reynolds all in the same time then teams can do what they did last year and pack the paint because there is no perimeter threat with this starting lineup. Don't get me wrong, I love Carter and Reynolds game, but to have all three in at the same time befuddles me, not to mention the fact they all started last night.
 
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#70
#70
madtownvol said:
Its not even about complacency. This program needs to get back to a Final four level or else its status and recruiting power is going suffer. It has been a long drought. Given that goal, it is hard to overly excited about a 50 pt win against Tenn. State, when some chinks in the LV armor are very visible. Against a good team, the LV's painfully slow and discombobulated start would have put them in a hole they probably could not get out of. They had lots of defensive lapses that were glossed over by Tenn St.'s inability to capitalize and the LVs superior athleticism. Better quality teams would be able to cash in.

I agree that you have to enjoy the wins as they come and appreciate the performances. However, as fans, we can still ask if are they playing like a team that looks like a final four contender. On that dimensions, this team has work to do.
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I have been a Tennessee fan for a very long time and have sat back long enough. True fans are getting tired of the constant whining and nagging that you so called LV fans are consistently doing. As a coach of 7th/8th graders I can tell you that your assumptions of how a rotation should be have some validity, however, you are only seeing one half of the picture. How the players perform in practice is the other half of the equation that you are not or refuse to include in your assessment of the team.

I also think that it is a bit un-fan-like (I don't know if that is a word, but we will pretend it is) to say that this team can't beat any good teams. I can tell you that just the name across the chest saying Tennessee will put fear into teams still. If you watch College basketball consistently you would know that when good teams face each other, they both tend to have very sluggish starts. Also, the game of basketball is very long, and it is hard to maintain the same intensity for the entire game. I know we as coaches preach it, however, very few teams can sustain the same intensity throughout an entire game. All teams show flashes of greatness as well as areas of improvement. In order to win games the team that can limit their mistakes and take advantage of their opponents usually wins out. With this being said, I think that there are only a handful of teams out there that truly have a legitimate chance at winning in April. Obviously you have to say UConn b/c they are defending champs. I like the chances of ND, South Carolina, Stanford, Texas and Tennessee as well. Tennessee looks good, and they are good enough to win it all. So please, before we look to far into the future can they drop a game before we consider their season over?! Thanks!
 
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#71
#71
mikey2smart said:
I have been a Tennessee fan for a very long time and have sat back long enough. True fans are getting tired of the constant whining and nagging that you so called LV fans are consistently doing. As a coach of 7th/8th graders I can tell you that your assumptions of how a rotation should be have some validity, however, you are only seeing one half of the picture. How the players perform in practice is the other half of the equation that you are not or refuse to include in your assessment of the team.

I also think that it is a bit un-fan-like (I don't know if that is a word, but we will pretend it is) to say that this team can't beat any good teams. I can tell you that just the name across the chest saying Tennessee will put fear into teams still. If you watch College basketball consistently you would know that when good teams face each other, they both tend to have very sluggish starts. Also, the game of basketball is very long, and it is hard to maintain the same intensity for the entire game. I know we as coaches preach it, however, very few teams can sustain the same intensity throughout an entire game. All teams show flashes of greatness as well as areas of improvement. In order to win games the team that can limit their mistakes and take advantage of their opponents usually wins out. With this being said, I think that there are only a handful of teams out there that truly have a legitimate chance at winning in April. Obviously you have to say UConn b/c they are defending champs. I like the chances of ND, South Carolina, Stanford, Texas and Tennessee as well. Tennessee looks good, and they are good enough to win it all. So please, before we look to far into the future can they drop a game before we consider their season over?! Thanks!
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That is one righteous rant! But where in the quote did I say that Tennessee can't beat good teams or that the season is over? And what is the whining and nagging? The legacy of the team--and the thing that puts fear into opponents--is the LONG tradition of being a final four contender and winning 8 NCs. Perhaps you missed it, but this team has not been to a final four since winning # 8 in the 2007-2008 season. I am not sure why you quoted me in regard to rotation matters since I have said nothing about specific players, focusing more on the team effort. And part of what made Tennessee "Tennessee" was Pat Summitt's no excuses, every possession matters ethos. It is a high standard but that is what helped get Tennessee to 18 NCAA Final Fours.
 
#72
#72
Watched the game on SEC On-line last night because our Lady Vols do not merit time on the SEC Network...bummer. The on-line production was excellent as was the play of the Lady Vols. Really enjoyed the press coverage and performance of some of the new players. GBO!
 
#74
#74
madtownvol said:
That is one righteous rant! But where in the quote did I say that Tennessee can't beat good teams or that the season is over? And what is the whining and nagging? The legacy of the team--and the thing that puts fear into opponents--is the LONG tradition of being a final four contender and winning 8 NCs. Perhaps you missed it, but this team has not been to a final four since winning # 8 in the 2007-2008 season. I am not sure why you quoted me in regard to rotation matters since I have said nothing about specific players, focusing more on the team effort. And part of what made Tennessee "Tennessee" was Pat Summitt's no excuses, every possession matters ethos. It is a high standard but that is what helped get Tennessee to 18 NCAA Final Fours.
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I wasn't talking about you specifically, so don't take it so personal. You talk about the past and even though we want to get back to that type of national contention level, we just won't get there degrading these young ladies and coaching staff for decisions made. I'm sure half the people commenting on the lady vols and their play and the way Holly coaches has 1) never stepped foot on a basketball court and 2) have never been on the sideline coaching adults. If your are a parent you can kind of relate that it is hard enough to get your child to do what you want at all times, let alone expect it from adults. Lets stop downing these young women who I'm sure read forums like these to get a feel for how their fan base is reacting to their play. They need encouragement from their fans not criticism, they get enough of that from the coaches!
 
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