Game Thread: Lady Vols vs. Wright State 2:00 pm SECN+

[Fatoldman]

Kellie adjusted them at halftime.

In first half, they were leaving their primary assignments to help a teammate. In the second half, they trusted their team and stuff with the assignment.

Number 0 was lighting us up in the first half. At start of second half, Horston got onto her like a glove and that put an end to that business.[/QUOTE


A player who took great pride in her defense said that she liked to measure her defensive game not just points she allowed her player to score but on how many shots they took. In other words she liked to deny the ball and be guarding her player so tightly when she had the ball she would not shoot. Denial of the ball and tight on the ball defense are marks of a great defender. Shot blocking is great but sometimes it happens after allowing your player to get a shot off that should have been prevented. I think we need to focus more on ball denial and tight on ball defense.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Been watching the Titans but I see we’re struggling with a 1-7 Horizon League team. Cool.

Ah hey. did you check back in? and that score wasn't as close as it was in the books. Kellie had the end of the bench playing majority of the 4th qtr.

Just checking back to make sure you got the full effect of the game incase you wanted to comment on it ...

 

[turbovol]

I'd say that while there are periods when we afe good defensively, on the whole we're not a good man-defense team when we are playing a good/strong opponent. That is when you see the problems.

First, we have guards and forwards who, when man defending on the perimeter, often get beat off the dribble, and when that happens your defense has immediately broken down. Good players on good teams beat our players off the dribble a lot.

Also, our perimeter players tend to switch too easily when confronting a pick--you should always work to get around the pick and pick up your mark, if you can. Reason: if you switch, then you've given your opponent a mismatch--which is the very point of picking in basketball. You want to avoid mismatches.

The other fundamental mistake we make is that, if we do get caught in a pick and switch, we don't look to pick up our man again if and when the opportunity arises. The opportunity often does present itself, and the UT player who has switched should take it to jump back on her original mark, thus negating the mismatch.

Also, we don't seem to communicate as well as we should, and thus our help defense is often late. A good man defender, when her mark does /not/ have the ball, should have one eye on her mark and the other eye on the ball and the rest of the defensive area. In this way you can spot a defensive breakdown and react quickly enough to get over and help. Court and ball awareness are a big part of team defense and team defensive help. If you're just looking at your mark, then you don't see what's going on with the rest of the players and will be too slow reacting to a breakdown to help.

The best man defense teams naturally have a group of players with the basic quickness and tenacity to man defend--and the are also, as a group, very quick to help, so that the opponent gets very few clean looks at the basket.

I wouldn't say that these are a strength. When we play good opponents, our pattern is to have maybe one quarter when we play good defense but at least two when we are not good defensively--giving up about 20 points or close to it--and 2+ quarters of poor defense will get you beat.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Looking over the stats: Sara and Franklin got 100% on their field goal % today, 5-5 and 6-6. Team had only 9 turnovers. Guess who had the second most assists behind Horston’s 5, Justine got 4 assists in 12 minutes. When her shots start dropping, that will be fun.

Seemed like I noticed more going to the basket without the ball, then receiving the pass for the layup. That always looks good, you don’t always have to dribble to the basket, to make a layup.

 

[Lucy]

I'd say that while there are periods when we afe good defensively, on the whole we're not a good man-defense team when we are playing a good/strong opponent. That is when you see the problems.

First, we have guards and forwards who, when man defending on the perimeter, often get beat off the dribble, and when that happens your defense has immediately broken down. Good players on good teams beat our players off the dribble a lot.

Also, our perimeter players tend to switch too easily when confronting a pick--you should always work to get around the pick and pick up your mark, if you can. Reason: if you switch, then you've given your opponent a mismatch--which is the very point of picking in basketball. You want to avoid mismatches.

The other fundamental mistake we make is that, if we do get caught in a pick and switch, we don't look to pick up our man again if and when the opportunity arises. The opportunity often does present itself, and the UT player who has switched should take it to jump back on her original mark, thus negating the mismatch.

Also, we don't seem to communicate as well as we should, and thus our help defense is often late. A good man defender, when her mark does /not/ have the ball, should have one eye on her mark and the other eye on the ball and the rest of the defensive area. In this way you can spot a defensive breakdown and react quickly enough to get over and help. Court and ball awareness are a big part of team defense and team defensive help. If you're just looking at your mark, then you don't see what's going on with the rest of the players and will be too slow reacting to a breakdown to help.

The best man defense teams naturally have a group of players with the basic quickness and tenacity to man defend--and the are also, as a group, very quick to help, so that the opponent gets very few clean looks at the basket.

I wouldn't say that these are a strength. When we play good opponents, our pattern is to have maybe one quarter when we play good defense but at least two when we are not good defensively--giving up about 20 points or close to it--and 2+ quarters of poor defense will get you beat.

Very interesting info. We were a really good defense last year with a lot of the same players. Any thoughts on the difference?

 

[DeerPark12]

I'd say that while there are periods when we afe good defensively, on the whole we're not a good man-defense team when we are playing a good/strong opponent. That is when you see the problems.

First, we have guards and forwards who, when man defending on the perimeter, often get beat off the dribble, and when that happens your defense has immediately broken down. Good players on good teams beat our players off the dribble a lot.

Also, our perimeter players tend to switch too easily when confronting a pick--you should always work to get around the pick and pick up your mark, if you can. Reason: if you switch, then you've given your opponent a mismatch--which is the very point of picking in basketball. You want to avoid mismatches.

The other fundamental mistake we make is that, if we do get caught in a pick and switch, we don't look to pick up our man again if and when the opportunity arises. The opportunity often does present itself, and the UT player who has switched should take it to jump back on her original mark, thus negating the mismatch.

Also, we don't seem to communicate as well as we should, and thus our help defense is often late. A good man defender, when her mark does /not/ have the ball, should have one eye on her mark and the other eye on the ball and the rest of the defensive area. In this way you can spot a defensive breakdown and react quickly enough to get over and help. Court and ball awareness are a big part of team defense and team defensive help. If you're just looking at your mark, then you don't see what's going on with the rest of the players and will be too slow reacting to a breakdown to help.

The best man defense teams naturally have a group of players with the basic quickness and tenacity to man defend--and the are also, as a group, very quick to help, so that the opponent gets very few clean looks at the basket.

I wouldn't say that these are a strength. When we play good opponents, our pattern is to have maybe one quarter when we play good defense but at least two when we are not good defensively--giving up about 20 points or close to it--and 2+ quarters of poor defense will get you beat.

Good point, except UT played zone for all 40 minutes today.

 

[37620VOL]

Good point, except UT played zone for all 40 minutes today.

Much respect but I must disagree here. We did more switching but we played mostly man defense.

 

[madtownvol]

Thought you quit watching. Why were you monitoring this thread then?

I was watching a real game, you know men playing football because I don't care about women's sports in the slightest but I just happened to accidently catch this play where the LVs gave up a basket and I will now elaborate in full detail why the blue hairs...

 

[Volfan2012]

I sure hope not, UCF lost by 40 to Auburn...

Maybe it won't be, but they are ranked 78th while Wright is 300.

 

[Volfan2012]

At least Kellie knows what the problem is with the defense. To much ball chasing and help defense. Staying with your man no matter where the ball goes is the only way to stop the open threes. We have about five or six players that can play defense most after those players struggle. We play a man defense that sometimes looks like a matchup zone when we do a lot of switching on ball screens and I saw a few times when players got confused and one of their players got open. A few times it looked the defense just said let her shoot it see if she can make it. The third period is the defense they want to play every quarter every game. They really got in sync with each other and made the right moves and fought through the ball screens. They forced players to drive the paint and the made a few layups, but overall their scoring efficiency was falling. Three point shot is the equalizer for a lot of teams you have to take that away and we did. 52 to 24 last two quarters and we played the end of the bench in the fourth.

 

[Lucy]

At least Kellie knows what the problem is with the defense. To much ball chasing and help defense. Staying with your man no matter where the ball goes is the only way to stop the open threes. We have about five or six players that can play defense most after those players struggle. We play a man defense that sometimes looks like a matchup zone when we do a lot of switching on ball screens and I saw a few times when players got confused and one of their players got open. A few times it looked the defense just said let her shoot it see if she can make it. The third period is the defense they want to play every quarter every game. They really got in sync with each other and made the right moves and fought through the ball screens. They forced players to drive the paint and the made a few layups, but overall their scoring efficiency was falling. Three point shot is the equalizer for a lot of teams you have to take that away and we did. 52 to 24 last two quarters and we played the end of the bench in the fourth.

I get the zone part but what does the match up part mean? Are you playing primarily zone but man to man on one/two players? Or on some part of the court?
Sorry to bother with this. I just want to understand better what to watch for. Thx!

 

[Volfan2012]

I get the zone part but what does the match up part mean? Are you playing primarily zone but man to man on one/two players? Or on some part of the court?
Sorry to bother with this. I just want to understand better what to watch for. Thx!

Yes that is correct. You man to man on the ball with a player while everyone away from the ball is zoning. When the ball is passed a player zoning needs to man the ball while the others zone. The ball is manned by a player wherever it goes and this type defense can prevent the three point shots, but is vulnerable to someone getting beat on the drive. I've seen to many times this season where a player doesn't get up to defend the ball when it is passed creating an opening look for a three. The third quarter yesterday was a good as we've played all season. Of course they were not as athletic as some teams we've played, but we were defeating their ball screens and they couldn't get an open look from the perimeter

 

[Jax_Vol]

Good point, except UT played zone for all 40 minutes today.

DP, you are an insider. If that was a zone, what type was it? At start of third quarter, I wanted to see what CKH would do to stop # 0. For the first 6-8 minutes, Horston was in her face tighter than a tick. So, how could that be a zone?

 

[Volfan2012]

DP, you are an insider. If that was a zone, what type was it? At start of third quarter, I wanted to see what CKH would do to stop # 0. For the first 6-8 minutes, Horston was in her face tighter than a tick. So, how could that be a zone?

You probably need to watch that quarter again. There was ball pressure by a different Tennessee player on the ball as the ball was passed. One player was playing man to man on the ball and the others were in a zone and it changed everytime the ball was passed. Another player would step up to pressure man to man and the other player would drop by in a zone type defense. This is the match up zone that looks like a man in some ways because you are always seeing pressure on the ball.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

You probably need to watch that quarter again. There was ball pressure by a different Tennessee player on the ball as the ball was passed. One player was playing man to man on the ball and the others were in a zone and it changed everytime the ball was passed. Another player would step up to pressure man to man and the other player would drop by in a zone type defense. This is the match up zone that looks like a man in some ways because you are always seeing pressure on the ball.

I've been complaining all year that the women's team does not practice help defense the way the men's team does. So, does this match-up zone give better results for help defense than a man defense?

 

[Jax_Vol]

You probably need to watch that quarter again. There was ball pressure by a different Tennessee player on the ball as the ball was passed. One player was playing man to man on the ball and the others were in a zone and it changed everytime the ball was passed. Another player would step up to pressure man to man and the other player would drop by in a zone type defense. This is the match up zone that looks like a man in some ways because you are always seeing pressure on the ball.

Ok…interesting.
was that different than the first half?

 

[Volfan2012]

Ok…interesting.
was that different than the first half?

Totally no one was pressuring the ball and were leaving their man. Looked like we were running inside for the rebound before the shot ever went up. Sometimes we just stood and watched them shoot evidently hoping they would miss. Coach Harper was really sounding quite angry when she was interviewed at the half. The third was really great defense by the team. When we went to the subs in the fourth they were breaking down a lot as well cause a lot of the work is having to fight through ball screens and some were just not doing it very well in the fourth quarter. In the third that group did almost a perfect job of operating in the defense. Those five need to play a lot of basketball for us. They also need to want to play all the time like they played in that quarter.
Sad thing is the five that played so well in the third quarter are the ones that played so badly in the first quarter. Coach had to motivate them to play defense at the half. I hope from now on in they are motivated on their own from the start.

 

[Volfan2012]

I've been complaining all year that the women's team does not practice help defense the way the men's team does. So, does this match-up zone give better results for help defense than a man defense?

I think the defense is basically used to stop the uncontested three point shot. I think it is better to prevent this shot against a lot of teams even if you may give up a few layups when every now and then the offense gets a favorable matchup. Cause if you play it right the offense can get a one on one matchup with any particular defensive player because players are not supposed to leave their position to early to help as to prevent the kick out for the open three.

 

[Lucy]

Yes that is correct. You man to man on the ball with a player while everyone away from the ball is zoning. When the ball is passed a player zoning needs to man the ball while the others zone. The ball is manned by a player wherever it goes and this type defense can prevent the three point shots, but is vulnerable to someone getting beat on the drive. I've seen to many times this season where a player doesn't get up to defend the ball when it is passed creating an opening look for a three. The third quarter yesterday was a good as we've played all season. Of course they were not as athletic as some teams we've played, but we were defeating their ball screens and they couldn't get an open look from the perimeter

Thx soooo much! I will look to see if can recognize this next game. I wonder if this is the second defense Kellie has settled on?

 

[Volfan2012]

Thx soooo much! I will look to see if can recognize this next game. I wonder if this is the second defense Kellie has settled on?

She might go straight man to man with teams that have a poor three point percentage and help more on the drives. Against the three point shooters this defense is the best option if you can get your players in line to play it. She wasn't to happy with the first half play yesterday and I understand why.

 

[madtownvol]

Totally no one was pressuring the ball and were leaving their man. Looked like we were running inside for the rebound before the shot ever went up. Sometimes we just stood and watched them shoot evidently hoping they would miss. Coach Harper was really sounding quite angry when she was interviewed at the half. The third was really great defense by the team. When we went to the subs in the fourth they were breaking down a lot as well cause a lot of the work is having to fight through ball screens and some were just not doing it very well in the fourth quarter. In the third that group did almost a perfect job of operating in the defense. Those five need to play a lot of basketball for us. They also need to want to play all the time like they played in that quarter.
Sad thing is the five that played so well in the third quarter are the ones that played so badly in the first quarter. Coach had to motivate them to play defense at the half. I hope from now on in they are motivated on their own from the start.

Great insights. Strangely enough, I think some of the defensive problem was trying too hard. "Over helping", as Kellie put it, is a high effort but undisciplined approach, where you wind up chasing the ball and over shifting, which leaves people wide open on the perimeter. And maybe the LVs were also overcompensating for having lost rebounding battles to outside shooting teams all season.

Even though Wright State are a weak team, they are the type of team that has been the LVs bane all season-- spread the ball, three point shooting teams (and they were on fire in the 1st quarter). So, the fact that the LVs adjusted and shut things down for the most part in the 2nd half is a positive.

Also, the LVs shot well. Again, yes its Wright State but the LVs have missed layups and open jumpers all season so it was nice to see just about everyone finishing at the rim and hitting a decent % with their jumpers. I really wanted one of those shots to go down for Justine but you can't have everything I suppose.

 

[Volfan2012]

Great insights. Strangely enough, I think some of the defensive problem was trying to hard. "Over helping", as Kellie put it, is a high effort but undisciplined approach, where you wind up chasing the ball and over shifting, which leaves people wide open on the perimeter. And maybe the LVs were overcompensating for having lost rebounding battles to outside shooting teams all season.

Even though Wright State are a weak team, they are the type of team that has been the LVs bane all season-- spread the ball, three point shooting teams (and they were on fire in the 1st quarter). So, the fact that the LVs adjusted and shut things down for the most part in the 2nd half is a positive.

Also, the LVs shot well. Again, yes its Wright State but the LVs have missed layups and open jumpers all season so it was nice to see just about everyone finishing at the rim and hitting a decent % with their jumpers. I really wanted one of those shots to go down for Justine but you can't have everything I suppose.

Absolutely correct it has been the downfall of this team at least a couple of times this season. I'm hoping that players will follow the gameplan they are given more closely in the future. A person that coaches on another site told that the hardest part of their job was getting players to follow the gameplan and it has been a problem for us this season in several games.
I think she might have to get them earlier if they start out a game like they did yesterday even if it takes a timeout. We really did some bad defensive things in that first quarter. A team like Tennessee should be holding teams in the 60 to 65 point range and winning just depends on us getting that many points on offense.

 

[37620VOL]

There's at least a couple easy ways to tell if you're looking at man to man or matchup zone.

Are the player's finding their man in transition or running to their area?

Off the ball movement... Is the defender tracking her man across the court in an off ball situation or staying more locked to her area?

 

[Volfan2012]

There's at least a couple easy ways to tell if you're looking at man to man or matchup zone.

Are the player's finding their man in transition or running to their area?

Off the ball movement... Is the defender tracking her man across the court in an off ball situation or staying more locked to her area?

Looked like to me it was matchup zone in the third quarter. I'm still trying to figure out what we were doing in the first quarter. I think we were trying to play a matchup zone most of the game, but it got weird at times evidently because players weren't on the same page. I am positive that is the defense we used in the third and it was executed exactly as you would like to draw it up. Four players would run to their area the player that had the ball would be guarded man to man.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Looked like to me it was matchup zone in the third quarter. I'm still trying to figure out what we were doing in the first quarter. I think we were trying to play a matchup zone most of the game, but it got weird at times evidently because players weren't on the same page. I am positive that is the defense we used in the third and it was executed exactly as you would like to draw it up. Four players would run to their area the player that had the ball would be guarded man to man.

I honestly thought it was a lousy man to man. But, as someone else said, they were leaving their ‘assignments’ and chasing the ball so quickly.
Now, it makes more sense. Some kind of zone where they were collapsing.